Well, if the mend should fail, I'll first look into a replacement heating assembly. I think the type used on a new roaster should be adaptable and would employ a safer form of insulation. If not, I'll either use a heat-proof crimp/solderless connector, give the borax a try or just get rid of the thing. I don't think using screws would work because due to the bulkiness of the mend it would eventually break through the asbestos envelope. The heating wire is very sturdy so I'm wondering how it broke in the first place. It looked slightly corroded on one of the broken ends, so it may have been a production defect.
1945 GE Roaster Oven
- Thread starter rp2813
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sudsmaster
Well-known member
You're welcome, Ralph. The borax trick was new to me too.
The link I posted also discusses using high temperature crimp connections. Apparently standard crimp connectors won't last for a heating element application, but a high temp one will. Apparently even a strip of stainless steel from a nicad battery pack will also work, if one can crimp it adequately to the two segments of the heating element.
Bulk heating element wire is available online but the trouble there could be figuring just what gauge to get. The older stuff like the GE roaster probably uses the most common type, which is nichrome wire. I wonder if Orchard Supply Hardware carries it...?
The link I posted also discusses using high temperature crimp connections. Apparently standard crimp connectors won't last for a heating element application, but a high temp one will. Apparently even a strip of stainless steel from a nicad battery pack will also work, if one can crimp it adequately to the two segments of the heating element.
Bulk heating element wire is available online but the trouble there could be figuring just what gauge to get. The older stuff like the GE roaster probably uses the most common type, which is nichrome wire. I wonder if Orchard Supply Hardware carries it...?
I don't have much faith in OSH anymore, but even if they did carry the correct wire, there's no way I could ever form it into the original configuration, which is about 20 oblong loops, ten down each side. If my mend goes bad, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Considering the potentially tenuous nature of my repair, I decided it's not worth investing a lot of time in cosmetics. I got out the Meguiar's Car Cleaner & Wax and it removed everything that was just surface dirt. There's still some minor rust spotting on one side, but it cleaned up and buffed out well otherwise. I hit the nicks and scrapes with appliance touch-up. It may discolor from heat, but that remains to be seen. The biggest scrape on the left is still apparent, but the small nicks disappeared. I gave the lid a quick pass with Wenol and it shined up fairly well. I think it's presentable now, and with its substantial appearance it will have credibility as a viable appliance whether in the kitchen or out on the patio.
Here's a shot of it after today's treatment:
Considering the potentially tenuous nature of my repair, I decided it's not worth investing a lot of time in cosmetics. I got out the Meguiar's Car Cleaner & Wax and it removed everything that was just surface dirt. There's still some minor rust spotting on one side, but it cleaned up and buffed out well otherwise. I hit the nicks and scrapes with appliance touch-up. It may discolor from heat, but that remains to be seen. The biggest scrape on the left is still apparent, but the small nicks disappeared. I gave the lid a quick pass with Wenol and it shined up fairly well. I think it's presentable now, and with its substantial appearance it will have credibility as a viable appliance whether in the kitchen or out on the patio.
Here's a shot of it after today's treatment:
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Looks very nice, Ralph.
If the mend fails, you could always try the boraxo/borax trick. It sounds relatively safe and does not involve thermite (which is an uncontrolled and dangerous reaction).
I have some mystery wire in my workshop (came with the estate) and it MIGHT be heating wire; I'm a bit leery however to hook it up to line voltage to find out. And it's not ribbon, it's more like piano wire.
If the mend fails, you could always try the boraxo/borax trick. It sounds relatively safe and does not involve thermite (which is an uncontrolled and dangerous reaction).
I have some mystery wire in my workshop (came with the estate) and it MIGHT be heating wire; I'm a bit leery however to hook it up to line voltage to find out. And it's not ribbon, it's more like piano wire.
westingman123
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2009
- Messages
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So Handsome!
She cleaned up right nice. With what did you polish the dial? The bakelite just shines!
She cleaned up right nice. With what did you polish the dial? The bakelite just shines!
polkanut
Well-known member
She looks very imposing indeed! It cleaned up very nice. What is the overall current draw?
So Handsome -- I Agree!
I prefer the design and more solid look of this GE over its gray & white Westinghouse contemporaries, even if the GE lacks the handy window in the lid that a Westinghouse offers.
I used the same bottle of Meguiars cleaner/wax for the temp control knob as well as the bakelite side handles (which can't be seen in the photos). I was careful to avoid the painted temperature markings. I also re-created the white dot in the center of the control knob since I had the bottle of appliance touch-up handy.
The current draw as stated on the bottom panel is 1350 watts. The giant receptacle end of the fabric-cased cord has the typical rattle to it, but it still grips the prongs firmly and doesn't get hot to the touch during use. The cord looks brand new.
Rich, that piano wire stuff sounds like what this roaster uses, although what I encountered was almost a spring steel sort of resistance to bending when I fixed the break. That's why I think it would be impossible to re-wire the thing myself. If the mend fails, I do intend give the borax(o) a try.
I prefer the design and more solid look of this GE over its gray & white Westinghouse contemporaries, even if the GE lacks the handy window in the lid that a Westinghouse offers.
I used the same bottle of Meguiars cleaner/wax for the temp control knob as well as the bakelite side handles (which can't be seen in the photos). I was careful to avoid the painted temperature markings. I also re-created the white dot in the center of the control knob since I had the bottle of appliance touch-up handy.
The current draw as stated on the bottom panel is 1350 watts. The giant receptacle end of the fabric-cased cord has the typical rattle to it, but it still grips the prongs firmly and doesn't get hot to the touch during use. The cord looks brand new.
Rich, that piano wire stuff sounds like what this roaster uses, although what I encountered was almost a spring steel sort of resistance to bending when I fixed the break. That's why I think it would be impossible to re-wire the thing myself. If the mend fails, I do intend give the borax(o) a try.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Back in the mid-1960's, I recall our SF landlord giving us a roaster similar to that GE, although I don't remember the brand. I was interested in it but we never used it. Either it didn't work, or my mother refused to plug it in because she thought it would use too much electricity. Or she was angry at the landlord. Take your pick, lol.
I don't know what happened to it. Probably went into the trash.
I don't know what happened to it. Probably went into the trash.
Borax
I bought some borax today. I'll use it for laundry, but have decided to perform the borax flux/fuse operation. If I don't, I know reliability will always be questionable. Since the wire looped and twisted together fine, that's a good indicator it's not brittle and compromised. I'll have more faith in the roaster if the mend can be fused into a relatively cool blob.
So all I need to do is connect the A/C cord's leads to the terminals at each end of the heating element, right?
I bought some borax today. I'll use it for laundry, but have decided to perform the borax flux/fuse operation. If I don't, I know reliability will always be questionable. Since the wire looped and twisted together fine, that's a good indicator it's not brittle and compromised. I'll have more faith in the roaster if the mend can be fused into a relatively cool blob.
So all I need to do is connect the A/C cord's leads to the terminals at each end of the heating element, right?
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Never tried it before, myself, Ralph, but that sounds about right. I'd want to be able to observe the mend as it heats up with power applied, just in case.
PS-I wouldn't be too worried about the asbestos - if it's in a sheet form, and not abraded or machined, chances are the particles released will be minimal to nonexistent. I'd keep a damp towel or sponge handy to collect any stray fibers if they occur (with power off, of course).
PS-I wouldn't be too worried about the asbestos - if it's in a sheet form, and not abraded or machined, chances are the particles released will be minimal to nonexistent. I'd keep a damp towel or sponge handy to collect any stray fibers if they occur (with power off, of course).
The asbestos is indeed in sheet form and so far hasn't been a disintegration issue.
It's important to keep an eye on the borax patch after power is applied. From what I can gather, it should change from a pasty wad into a melted blob. There's no clear statement about when to cut power, but I presume it would be fairly soon after the blob forms.
I hope to get at this before the weekend is over so will report back here on how it all went.
It's important to keep an eye on the borax patch after power is applied. From what I can gather, it should change from a pasty wad into a melted blob. There's no clear statement about when to cut power, but I presume it would be fairly soon after the blob forms.
I hope to get at this before the weekend is over so will report back here on how it all went.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Ralph,
Are you using Boraxo (the hand soap powder) or borax? It's not clear to me which would work better, since the two references in the link I gave mention either one.
I suspect Boraxo would give a better paste, but Borax a more "pure" additive.
Maybe a little more research is in order...
Are you using Boraxo (the hand soap powder) or borax? It's not clear to me which would work better, since the two references in the link I gave mention either one.
I suspect Boraxo would give a better paste, but Borax a more "pure" additive.
Maybe a little more research is in order...
I found Borax at my trusty ACE Hardware, so I bought a box since I knew I could use it for laundry.
I used to have an old school (literally) porcelain enameled Boraxo dispenser but it disappeared quite some time ago, otherwise I would have held out for Boraxo.
My interpretation is that either will work. I don't know what the difference is between the two, but am guessing whatever additional ingredients Boraxo may contain don't impact its potential to form a blob. I'll see if I can find any additional information.
I used to have an old school (literally) porcelain enameled Boraxo dispenser but it disappeared quite some time ago, otherwise I would have held out for Boraxo.
My interpretation is that either will work. I don't know what the difference is between the two, but am guessing whatever additional ingredients Boraxo may contain don't impact its potential to form a blob. I'll see if I can find any additional information.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Well, the Boraxo would be mostly a natural type of soap with borax added.
Borax wouldn't have any soap in it.
Personally I think the borax does the trick, that is, forms the flux that enables the weld to occur, so it might work the best as well.
The person that mentioned Boraxo instead of Borax may have just had his names wrong.
Borax wouldn't have any soap in it.
Personally I think the borax does the trick, that is, forms the flux that enables the weld to occur, so it might work the best as well.
The person that mentioned Boraxo instead of Borax may have just had his names wrong.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
The plot thickens
Yes, I did some more googling and you want to use borax, not boraxo soap.
And here is another description of mending resistance wire with borax. An added dimension is that brass wire is used to strengthen the joint.
Method: Repairing resistance wire
Why
Heating elements are found in many places - hair dryers, soldering irons, clothes irons, and many many more. They also have a limited lifetime and tend to break. Somehow, sometime during the operation a part of the wire gets locally weakened and its resistance raises. It may be because of a surface contamination that causes localized changes in the composition of the wire, mechanical damage lowering its cross-section, or locally diminished heat removal. The resistance of that spot raises in comparison with the rest of the wire, and more power gets released there due to the Ohm's law. More power means higher temperature, higher temperature means increase of the resistance, and increase of the resistance means higher locally released power; and soon we have a nice runaway. Then the device stops working, its heater staying cool like if it stars in a Coca Cola ad.
Such device more often than not gets thrown out, even if there is a plenty of life still hidden in the rest of its construction.
How
The heating elements are usually made of a wire, coiled in a suitable shape on a refractory support (ceramics, mica, etc...), composed of a material with high electrical resistivity and decent resistance to heat. The most common such materials are nichrome (alloy of nickel, chromium, and sometimes iron) and kanthal (alloy of iron, chromium and aluminium).
The wires are coated with a layer of oxide. This one serves as a passivation against further oxidation. This is the reason why such heating elements can not withstand well operation in reducing atmospheres. This oxide makes electrical contact difficult, hindering purely mechanical attempts to rejoin a broken wire. Such joint tends to be mechanically weak and electrically failure-prone. The repeated heating-cooling cycles also serve to loosen formerly tightly twisted wires.
Welding of resistive wires is difficult. Spot welder did not help in making a satisfying joint with high mechanical integrity. Soldering is out of question due to the high temperatures the heaters operate at, vastly exceeding the melting point of the solder.
The remaining easy way of metal joining is brazing, a method similar to soldering but operating with alloys with higher melting point.
Borax was used as a flux, for its low cost, good availability, and ability to shield the surface from oxygen and to dissolve metal oxides, and thus promoting wetting with the molten metal.
Silver was unsuccessfully tried as the brazing metal. While its melting point of above 900 °C could provide reasonable performance in lower-temperature applications, it turned out that it steadfastly refuses to wet the wires. No wonder, when iron and nickel are involved; silver does not wet these.
A successful brazing material was brass, an alloy of copper and zinc. Copper has excellent wetting properties towards iron and nickel, therefore, when melted, it readily flows over the resistance wire. The melting point of about 900 °C is also favorable for resistance to decent temperatures encountered in lower-temperature heaters. Brass wire in a range of thicknesses can be obtained in art supplies shops catering to beadworking audience.
Method
The broken wire is somewhat straightened to ensure good access to both ends of the wire. The ends are twisted together. Then they are heated with a torch and dipped into powdered borax; some crystals adhere to the hot wires. Heat again, repeat until the joint is satisfactorily coated. Heat yet more; the crystals of borax will puff up as they lose crystal water, then they will melt into a glass-like substance, forming a bead-like droplet over the twisted wires.
The brass is added to the joint in the form of a wire. Either it can be fed to the red-hot joint in the form of a wire, or the brass wire can be twisted around the joint before it is coated with borax. Each approach is good for different setting, try both, find what suits you better.
The joint is thoroughly heated to orange-hot glow. The brass should melt readily, forming a shiny drop under the molten borax, then soaking between the twisted wires. This moment indicates a successful joint, well-wetted with brass. The brass should not form discrete droplets or beads, nor the wetting of the wires should be spotty and uneven. Good wetting makes a relatively thin layer of brass spreading out over the underlying metal.
Then the joint is allowed to cool, solidified borax is carefully removed (it behaves like glass, it is hard and fragile; it can crack suddenly and the dissipated mechanical energy could break the wire again, ruining the effort), excessive length of the joint is cut off, and the wire is folded back to fit the heating element again.
http://shaddack.twibright.com/projects/method_brazing_resistance_wire/
Yes, I did some more googling and you want to use borax, not boraxo soap.
And here is another description of mending resistance wire with borax. An added dimension is that brass wire is used to strengthen the joint.
Method: Repairing resistance wire
Why
Heating elements are found in many places - hair dryers, soldering irons, clothes irons, and many many more. They also have a limited lifetime and tend to break. Somehow, sometime during the operation a part of the wire gets locally weakened and its resistance raises. It may be because of a surface contamination that causes localized changes in the composition of the wire, mechanical damage lowering its cross-section, or locally diminished heat removal. The resistance of that spot raises in comparison with the rest of the wire, and more power gets released there due to the Ohm's law. More power means higher temperature, higher temperature means increase of the resistance, and increase of the resistance means higher locally released power; and soon we have a nice runaway. Then the device stops working, its heater staying cool like if it stars in a Coca Cola ad.
Such device more often than not gets thrown out, even if there is a plenty of life still hidden in the rest of its construction.
How
The heating elements are usually made of a wire, coiled in a suitable shape on a refractory support (ceramics, mica, etc...), composed of a material with high electrical resistivity and decent resistance to heat. The most common such materials are nichrome (alloy of nickel, chromium, and sometimes iron) and kanthal (alloy of iron, chromium and aluminium).
The wires are coated with a layer of oxide. This one serves as a passivation against further oxidation. This is the reason why such heating elements can not withstand well operation in reducing atmospheres. This oxide makes electrical contact difficult, hindering purely mechanical attempts to rejoin a broken wire. Such joint tends to be mechanically weak and electrically failure-prone. The repeated heating-cooling cycles also serve to loosen formerly tightly twisted wires.
Welding of resistive wires is difficult. Spot welder did not help in making a satisfying joint with high mechanical integrity. Soldering is out of question due to the high temperatures the heaters operate at, vastly exceeding the melting point of the solder.
The remaining easy way of metal joining is brazing, a method similar to soldering but operating with alloys with higher melting point.
Borax was used as a flux, for its low cost, good availability, and ability to shield the surface from oxygen and to dissolve metal oxides, and thus promoting wetting with the molten metal.
Silver was unsuccessfully tried as the brazing metal. While its melting point of above 900 °C could provide reasonable performance in lower-temperature applications, it turned out that it steadfastly refuses to wet the wires. No wonder, when iron and nickel are involved; silver does not wet these.
A successful brazing material was brass, an alloy of copper and zinc. Copper has excellent wetting properties towards iron and nickel, therefore, when melted, it readily flows over the resistance wire. The melting point of about 900 °C is also favorable for resistance to decent temperatures encountered in lower-temperature heaters. Brass wire in a range of thicknesses can be obtained in art supplies shops catering to beadworking audience.
Method
The broken wire is somewhat straightened to ensure good access to both ends of the wire. The ends are twisted together. Then they are heated with a torch and dipped into powdered borax; some crystals adhere to the hot wires. Heat again, repeat until the joint is satisfactorily coated. Heat yet more; the crystals of borax will puff up as they lose crystal water, then they will melt into a glass-like substance, forming a bead-like droplet over the twisted wires.
The brass is added to the joint in the form of a wire. Either it can be fed to the red-hot joint in the form of a wire, or the brass wire can be twisted around the joint before it is coated with borax. Each approach is good for different setting, try both, find what suits you better.
The joint is thoroughly heated to orange-hot glow. The brass should melt readily, forming a shiny drop under the molten borax, then soaking between the twisted wires. This moment indicates a successful joint, well-wetted with brass. The brass should not form discrete droplets or beads, nor the wetting of the wires should be spotty and uneven. Good wetting makes a relatively thin layer of brass spreading out over the underlying metal.
Then the joint is allowed to cool, solidified borax is carefully removed (it behaves like glass, it is hard and fragile; it can crack suddenly and the dissipated mechanical energy could break the wire again, ruining the effort), excessive length of the joint is cut off, and the wire is folded back to fit the heating element again.
http://shaddack.twibright.com/projects/method_brazing_resistance_wire/
Well, this latest process is sounding like it's more trouble than it's worth. I don't have the option of dipping the broken ends into borax, which is something I've read a few times in my research. I need to do the repair with the twisted mend I've already made remaining in place. I have no brass wire that I'm aware of, so would need to hunt some down. I do like the idea of using a blow torch instead of electrical current. I think it provides more control and would be safer than heating up the entire element.
However, this most recent description makes me think the borax treatment may not be a sure bet for success.
As satisfying (and cheap) as it would be to fix the original, I might just poke around for replacement element assemblies applicable to modern roaster ovens found in stores today. More money but a lot less trouble, and I'd be buying the peace of mind that it won't likely fail me any time soon. As a bonus, I'll still have cleaner laundry as a result of adding borax.
However, this most recent description makes me think the borax treatment may not be a sure bet for success.
As satisfying (and cheap) as it would be to fix the original, I might just poke around for replacement element assemblies applicable to modern roaster ovens found in stores today. More money but a lot less trouble, and I'd be buying the peace of mind that it won't likely fail me any time soon. As a bonus, I'll still have cleaner laundry as a result of adding borax.
OK, apparently there is no such thing as a replacement heating element assembly. Sears parts came close, but they only had the side element listed, and it was NLA. So why list it then? I found a Chinese company that had something that might have worked, but they only take orders for mass quantities.
Local parts houses were a bust as well. Apparently if you own a modern roaster oven and the heating element fails, you can go to the trouble of sending it away for repair by the manufacturer, or just buy a new one. Nobody offers parts to fix the thing yourself.
So it's back to the borax for me. I'll see if I can find some brass wire laying around here, and if not, I'll just go with plan A, which didn't mention brass wire. In my cruising of the web, I did read someone's account of simply twisting wires together and having that repair last for many years, so the borax treatment might provide some additional insurance, brass or no brass.
I hope to photo-document the process when the time comes.
Local parts houses were a bust as well. Apparently if you own a modern roaster oven and the heating element fails, you can go to the trouble of sending it away for repair by the manufacturer, or just buy a new one. Nobody offers parts to fix the thing yourself.
So it's back to the borax for me. I'll see if I can find some brass wire laying around here, and if not, I'll just go with plan A, which didn't mention brass wire. In my cruising of the web, I did read someone's account of simply twisting wires together and having that repair last for many years, so the borax treatment might provide some additional insurance, brass or no brass.
I hope to photo-document the process when the time comes.
kb0nes
Well-known member
Crimp or Screw
I've had good luck using either a nickle plated steel crimp ferrule or a small nut and bolt. Brazing may well work but the mechanical methods will work for many years too.
I found this site and they sell both resistance wire as well as ceramic grommets and crimp fittings. Perhaps something there will be of use.
http://www.heatersplus.com/nichrome.html
I've had good luck using either a nickle plated steel crimp ferrule or a small nut and bolt. Brazing may well work but the mechanical methods will work for many years too.
I found this site and they sell both resistance wire as well as ceramic grommets and crimp fittings. Perhaps something there will be of use.
http://www.heatersplus.com/nichrome.html
A heat-proof crimp is probably the most reliable way to go. Due to the nature of the asbestos envelope, I don't think using a nut/screw and bolt will work, as it would create a bulge that could eventually poke through the asbestos sheeting.
I've sent an e-mail inquiry to MOR Electric Heating asking if they have anything that might work for a replacement element assembly. It's probably a long shot, but they might have some leads, so to speak. As stated previously, replacing only the nichrome wire would be next to impossible, as it would need to be threaded through the asbestos much like stitching work. I'm bad enough at that with perfectly flexible thread and non-toxic fabric.
Thanks for that link!
I've sent an e-mail inquiry to MOR Electric Heating asking if they have anything that might work for a replacement element assembly. It's probably a long shot, but they might have some leads, so to speak. As stated previously, replacing only the nichrome wire would be next to impossible, as it would need to be threaded through the asbestos much like stitching work. I'm bad enough at that with perfectly flexible thread and non-toxic fabric.
Thanks for that link!
My trusty ACE Hardware had small multi-sectioned tray that included heat-proof crimp connectors, so I now have what I need. The specs on them say they'll handle up to 650 degrees. I think that's compatible with the nichrome element. I have a crimping tool that I bought a while back to use for attaching spades onto bell wire. It's capable of crimping the size of connector I have for the nichrome, so this should result in a proper repair.
Ralph,
Sexy looking roaster!
I don't really understand how the heating element is placed in regard to the asbestos. Can you replace the element and replace the asbestos with some other form of insulation. Don't get too scared of the asbestos, just don't eat it.
Take a picture of the element so I can get a better idea of what you're dealing with.
I am rooting for you. I got my GE belt buckle on!
Sexy looking roaster!
I don't really understand how the heating element is placed in regard to the asbestos. Can you replace the element and replace the asbestos with some other form of insulation. Don't get too scared of the asbestos, just don't eat it.
Take a picture of the element so I can get a better idea of what you're dealing with.
I am rooting for you. I got my GE belt buckle on!
Travis, from the research I've done it seems that repairing the existing nichrome wire is far easier than replacing it.
I'll take pictures when I have the roaster apart again.
The heating assembly consists of two sections of asbestos no more than 18" long, one of which has nichrome wrapped around it in long flat loops up one side and down the other, maybe 10 or 12 loops per side. IIRC that sheet is split down the middle to facilitate the wrapping. This piece is enclosed inside another sheet of asbestos that's three times as wide. This outer sheet is folded over so the ends overlap and make a double layer on one side, and serves as an envelope around the portion with the wiring. That's it.
This envelope slides in between a pair of front-to-rear cross members (with holes in them for the bottom cover screws) and the bottom of the cooking well, and is held in place simply by the fiberglass insulation being smashed against it once the bottom access cover is replaced.
Right now I'm having a hard time finding anything on line that provides information on how hot the nichrome gets in this application. I'm thinking it stays below 650 since the highest setting on the oven is 500, but maybe I'm being too simplistic.
I'll take pictures when I have the roaster apart again.
The heating assembly consists of two sections of asbestos no more than 18" long, one of which has nichrome wrapped around it in long flat loops up one side and down the other, maybe 10 or 12 loops per side. IIRC that sheet is split down the middle to facilitate the wrapping. This piece is enclosed inside another sheet of asbestos that's three times as wide. This outer sheet is folded over so the ends overlap and make a double layer on one side, and serves as an envelope around the portion with the wiring. That's it.
This envelope slides in between a pair of front-to-rear cross members (with holes in them for the bottom cover screws) and the bottom of the cooking well, and is held in place simply by the fiberglass insulation being smashed against it once the bottom access cover is replaced.
Right now I'm having a hard time finding anything on line that provides information on how hot the nichrome gets in this application. I'm thinking it stays below 650 since the highest setting on the oven is 500, but maybe I'm being too simplistic.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Ralph,
If the ACE crimp connectors are good up to 650C, that's about 1200F, and you'd probably be OK with the oven.
If it's 650F, then it might fail over time, but it's worth a try.
Brass wire is readily available - I got a few lengths of it at OSH a few years back. A craft store should have it as well.
Personally I'd try a dab of borax paste, maybe over some fine brass wire, and then plug it in. What can you lose? The thing only cost $10!!!
If the ACE crimp connectors are good up to 650C, that's about 1200F, and you'd probably be OK with the oven.
If it's 650F, then it might fail over time, but it's worth a try.
Brass wire is readily available - I got a few lengths of it at OSH a few years back. A craft store should have it as well.
Personally I'd try a dab of borax paste, maybe over some fine brass wire, and then plug it in. What can you lose? The thing only cost $10!!!
sudsmaster
Well-known member
Here's a link to a interesting discussion of nichrome and it has a table of various amperages needed to achieve various wire temps.
http://www.heatersplus.com/nichrome.html
http://www.heatersplus.com/nichrome.html
I saw that table of nichrome amps vs temps, but since I have no background in electrical theory it didn't give me a clear answer on 1,350 watts applied to what I presume is no thicker than 18 gauge wire.
I'm going to double-check the crimp connector heat limit. It may have been 650-C but I'll have to make sure of it, as well as try to determine just how hot the nichrome will get in this particular application. It's hard for me to imagine that it would get red hot inside the asbestos envelope, but maybe it does.
I'm going to double-check the crimp connector heat limit. It may have been 650-C but I'll have to make sure of it, as well as try to determine just how hot the nichrome will get in this particular application. It's hard for me to imagine that it would get red hot inside the asbestos envelope, but maybe it does.
Back To Borax?
I've confirmed the heat limit of the crimp connector is 650 F. I went back to a table to try and calculate the high temperature of the nichrome at 1350 watts. The table advised that watts = volts x amps. For 18 gauge wire, 6.5 amps is required for the wire to reach 600 degrees F. I multiplied 6.5 by 110 for a product of 715 watts. If my logic is correct, this means that 1350 watts would heat the wire to nearly twice the temperature limit of the crimp connector. If the wire is thinner than 18 gauge, it only gets worse.
Now I'm back to thinking borax would offer a more lasting repair. If my calculations above are incorrect, I'd appreciate it if anyone familiar with electrical theory could offer the correct values.
I've confirmed the heat limit of the crimp connector is 650 F. I went back to a table to try and calculate the high temperature of the nichrome at 1350 watts. The table advised that watts = volts x amps. For 18 gauge wire, 6.5 amps is required for the wire to reach 600 degrees F. I multiplied 6.5 by 110 for a product of 715 watts. If my logic is correct, this means that 1350 watts would heat the wire to nearly twice the temperature limit of the crimp connector. If the wire is thinner than 18 gauge, it only gets worse.
Now I'm back to thinking borax would offer a more lasting repair. If my calculations above are incorrect, I'd appreciate it if anyone familiar with electrical theory could offer the correct values.
SUCCESS!
The repair job has been completed!
I thought about starting a new thread, but it would have been out of context, so here we are again.
Since the crimp connectors were unsuitable, I went with the borax method. It was easy and entertaining. Highly recommended!
First, a shot of the mend wrapped with brass wire. Sorry that it's a little blurry. The brass was a slightly heavier gauge than the nichrome, so I couldn't get it wrapped as tightly as I wanted, but by this point I was invested.
The repair job has been completed!
I thought about starting a new thread, but it would have been out of context, so here we are again.
Since the crimp connectors were unsuitable, I went with the borax method. It was easy and entertaining. Highly recommended!
First, a shot of the mend wrapped with brass wire. Sorry that it's a little blurry. The brass was a slightly heavier gauge than the nichrome, so I couldn't get it wrapped as tightly as I wanted, but by this point I was invested.
