1950 Plymouth

[stan]

Thanks Ralph

I'll check!
Terry, I've never paid a lot of attention to gas milage with this old girl, but I know it dose better than 9 mpg! Interestingvaboutvthr fluid drive..I always thought that with fluid drive you still had to use the safety clutch to go in reverse, and into first? Never have drivin one!

 

[sudsmaster]

As I recall on long trips I have averaged about 20 mpg in the four door '50 Plymouth. Like any standard (non-hybrid) car, mileage plummets in stop and go traffic, or around town.

 

I do recall getting better mileage before California started adulterating the gas with MTBE and, later, ethanol.

 

 

[cfz2882]

plymouth flathead six...

...was copied by the Russians and used in some of their military trucks-a 4 cyl version of same basic design was also made by the Russians-Cubans discovered parts from the Russian engines work on the vintage American engines,though metric threads on the Russian parts Two of my vehicles with external linkage manual transmissions-'68 c10 and '82 z28- developed a habit of jamming in two gears at once if shifted "wrong"on the pickup,would have to get out and pull on the linkage rods(3 on the tree)until it popped free-on the z28,would have to slip partway under that low-slung machine and pull the shift rods...Worn/misadjusted linkage was the cause with both vehicles.

 

[lordkenmore]

>As I recall on long trips I have averaged about 20 mpg in the four door '50 Plymouth.

Doesn't seem that bad all things considered. I've had newer 4 cylinder cars that barely got maybe mid 20s MPG range. Yesterday, I rode in someone's Subaru, which was getting about 21 MPG on a trip that was mostly highway.

Another thought--and correct me if I'm wrong--but it seems like gas quality would be less of an issue in an old Plymouth. I know I've heard lots of strong suggestions over the years to use Chevron or other high cost gas due to additives that help keep fuel injectors clean. But you don't have fuel injectors to worry about on that old Plymouth. As long as the gas isn't liquid sludge, it SEEMS like anything should be fine.

 

[norgeway]

Top speed 65..NAAAAA

I had a 53 I drove daily for several years, Took it on several trips, it cruised nicely at 65 or 70 with no strain at all, as for brakes, Plymouths of this era had dual wheel cylinders on the front wheels and as long as you can get asbestos brake lining they are the finest brakes you can have, My Grandparents had a 52 and Mom and Dad also had a 53 for many years, Plymouths of this era were fine cars, the only cars on the market with electric wipers, as for top speed, I got in a race once with a guy in a v8 40 Ford, I stayed ahead of him up to about 75, the Ford would do just under 100 in those days, the Plymouth about 90.

 

[lordkenmore]

> it cruised nicely at 65 or 70 with no strain at all

Never drove a car of that vintage. But I did have a small 4 cylinder Japanese car made ca. 1980. Acceleration was horrible, but had absolutely no problem cruising at 70+. Not bad when one considers it dated to an era when 55 was the top speed in the US, gas economy was a huge concern, etc.

I have no idea what the top speed was. But I can say that when Montana had no speed limit, I hit a speed above what the speedometer could measure in one of the flat parts of that state.

 

[lordkenmore]

>I got in a race once with a guy in a v8 40 Ford, I stayed ahead of him up to about 75, the Ford would do just under 100 in those days, the Plymouth about 90.

I can't remember for sure, and correct me if I'm wrong... But I have a sense that I might have read that 6 cylinder Fords of some vintage (I'm thinking ca. 1950) actually had better acceleration than the V8 at lower speeds.

 

[rp2813]

I've had the GMC up to 65, but I don't feel safe going that fast with it on crowded area freeways -- or even empty ones, plus it gets pretty loud in the cab.  It seems to have a sweet spot at around 57, so that's where I tend to top out, and I always keep to the far right lane.

 

So Stan, what happened to that (flowering cherry?) tree?  Did it get struck by lightning or something?

 

[ea56]

I'm pretty sure that I've read this too about the 49 to 52 Ford 6's having better low end acceleration than the V-8's in Hemmings Classic Car. I believe that this was due to the 6's having higher low end torque. These older American cars were really a lot of fun to drive and still are, if you're lucky enough to have one. And the 3 spd. column shifts were so easy to drive, provided that the linkage was in good working order. Really very little shifting in most normal driving. I guess I'm just behind the times, but I really am not interested in having a car with a 6 spd. manual. Why would you want to have to shift so much?
Anyway, I sure do appreciate Stan's 50 Plymouth. We had a few of them in my family in the 50's and early 60's and I remember well riding in them. The floors in the backseat were so big that we kid's would play board games and color on the floor while on long drives.
Eddie

 

[sudsmaster]

218 Plymouth flathead six top speed

My second engine rebuilder was rather adamant that I not drive the car above 55. He said the motor was never designed for sustained top speeds, and the bearings and rings would wear out quickly if pushed to the limit. I had top components installed the second time around... forged pistons, tri-metal main bearings. And relatively tight tolerances. It doesn't burn any oil after 20 years, so there is that.

 

The larger Dodge/Desoto/Chrysler 230 and larger flathead sixes can be longer lived, mainly because there's more room in the block to space the cylinders with more meat around them. The 218 block was shortened and hence the cylinders are rather closely packed. This limits the amount of overbore that can be done, and also affects cooling.

 

Plymouth was the entry level car for Chrysler Corp. It is a good car but certain economies were taken in production. Oddly, it was their smallest car but even the smallest 50 Plymouth today would count as a full-size car.

 

The rear main seal will always seep a bit. The secret to a less leaky one is to avoid the rubber seals and only use a rope type seal. It won't seal as tightly to begin with but it also won't deteriorate quickly from heat and age like the rubber ones will. And besides, the engine breather tube exits under the chassis, keeping the road oiled anyway.

 

 

[lordkenmore]

>I guess I'm just behind the times, but I really am not interested in having a car with a 6 spd. manual. Why would you want to have to shift so much?

I've only had 5 speeds, but I don't find the shifting too bad. Mainly, I guess, it all takes place about the same time when accelerating, so what's an extra shift or two?

Living with a modern 4 speed (used in economy cars) might be more annoying. I had one years back, and it seemed like there were moments when no gear seemed quite right... And I remember looking once at a Toyota truck that had a 4 speed, and wasn't selling. Apparently it was the lack of a 5 speed that was causing it to linger and linger.

 

[ovrphil]

Shifting

I had a 1969 Cougar five-speed. I never got tired of shifting, but then I didn't live in L.A., Atlanta, or any other big city where shifting manually becomes labor-intensive. The older cars are a completely different shifting experience, lol!

1950 - what was the cost of gas? $0.10-15/gallon?

 

[stan]

Rich mentioning the E brake

got me thinking.. Aside from the shifter being stuck, the fact that while the car seamed to be in gear, when I let up on the clutch I felt something was holding the rear wheels. So I paid a visit today to where the Plymouth sits and waits for the mechanic.
I knew the e brake wasn't pulled, but when Rich mentioned the e brake, I had to explore.
First thing I did was to gently pull the brake to see if I felt or heard heard anything. Sure enough something feels off. (Thanks Rich)
I started her up and reached for the gear shift and was surprised to find it wasn't stuck anymore? (possible vibration from the tow ride)
So I backed her up a drove her around the block, I was afraid to use first gear for my test, so just started in second. When I got close to turning into where it was parked at the mechanic, I was brave enough to use flrst, second, and third. Shifting seems slightly off somehow?
Without crawling under the car..I'm convinced that somethings up with the e brake, and the shift linkage.
At any rate at least I know that the clutch and transmission is operating! And I will direct the mechanic to the e brake first, then on to the two shifter arms. One of them may have a pin loose or something.
I'm just to pretty too crawl under greasy old cars anymore!
Good to know about the rope type seal Rich, I have one in a box somewhere.

P.S..you boys may find this funny, but when I called for the tow, I had to spell PLYMOUTH to the person who took the call! LOL

Forgive me Ralph.. What Tree?

 

[supersuds]

Had to spell Plymouth, but he would have been unfazed by Hyundai, sigh.

Looks like your're onto something with that wacky driveshaft brake!

About top speeds, keep in mind that cars of this era were pulling wildly low rear axle ratios, like 4.27 to 1 or even 4.54 to 1, so the engines would really be revving even high gear. An overdrive is a useful addition, though I'm not sure if Plymouth offered them from the factory. Chryslers often had them.

 

[rp2813]

". . . I had to spell PLYMOUTH . . ."

Gee, it's not like the last Plymouth was produced in 1950.   Plymouth doesn't make smart phones.  If they did, that person would have known how to spell it.

 

I'm glad this is looking like it's not transmission related.  The linkage and E-brake are relatively simple and inexpensive repairs.

 

Stan, it's the tree in the photo of your car above, in the foreground parking strip.  It looks like half the trunk of it (the tree, not the Plymouth) is missing.

 

[stan]

LOL Ralph

It's Crêpe myrtle tree that's is my nexdoor neighbors. A big truck came down the street one day and pulled a phone line down. Poor tree took the assault.

 

[norgeway]

RE Overdrive

Yes, Plymouth as well as Ford Chevrolet and most cars could be had with overdrive then, My 53 Plymouth had Hy Drive, which was a fluid drive setup .I  had a 53 Imperial with Fluid Torque Drive, which was a semi automatic, it was a whole different animal on the road, it had a 331 cubic inch hemi, I drove it on several trips, thirsty, but anything that weighs near 5000 pounds on a 131 inch wheelbase is not going to be economical, about 15 mpg on a trip, 10 or so around town, but it would really travel if you stepped on it, im kind of ashamed to admit I ran a old car that hard, but I had it 105 going down I 85 once...

 

[norgeway]

Guess what won...

The first Southern 500 race at Darlington speedway...A stock 1950 Plymouth..LOL Not on speed but tire wear, the Cadillacs, Oldsmobiles and Hudsons used up all their tires, Johnny Mantz who drove the Plymouth was a Indy driver, so he knew what it took to run asphalt, remember, The Southern 500 was on the first big paved track, and the first 500 mile race,. He brought Dodge truck tires and that made the difference, he ran all day at 75 to 80 and ended up winning over cars that were running over 100, remember, a 88 Olds or a Cadillac would run well over 100 in those days.

 

[dartman]

mpg

I think 20 to 21 mpg highway is realistic with a old Plymouth like that. It's heavy but near as much as a old military Power Wagon pickup that also had extremely low gears to make up for no low range and about 80hp or so.
My early one had 4.88 gears and the later bigger 3/4 ton version had 5.86 gears and were even heavier.
The military tech manual for them even runs down all the specs and 9mpg is the official statement in the specs sheet.
They had maybe 8 to 1 or less compression so could run on crappy low octane gas, so anything above 60 octane was fine.
That Plymouth should be pretty much the same so run the cheapest regular you can find and don't let it sit too long as the methanol pulls moisture out of the air and turns to paint thinner in about 30 days.
My Dart has sat mostly un started since 06 and the gas smells like bad paint thinner now and the inside of the Thermoquad was all gummed up. It was amazing it still started and ran to drive 5 miles here in 2012.
Wish I could have driven that 50 Dodge just once. You did have to use the clutch to shift into first or reverse, and pretty sure low to high, but never driven one to see, that is what I was told and have read.
They were supposed to be very durable but really ate up the little power the engine had.

 

[norgeway]

Re Fluid Torque

On my 53 Imperial, you had 2 gearshift positions, low range and high range, low was where second would be on a regular column shift, high was where high would be, reverse and neutral were in their normal positions. each range had 2 speeds, for a total of 4 gear ratios, you pushed in the clutch and selected either low or high range, and let out the clutch, then shifting between the 2 speeds , 1 and 2 or 3 and 4 was controlled by letting off the accelerator, with the hemi, you hardly ever needed to use the low unless you were going to race or something, 1st was almost a granny gear, the funny thing was, if you took off in low range and opened it up, it was wound out at about 35....if you held it wide open and barely bumped the clutch, it would power shift into second and bark the tires, I learned this from a guy I worked with with who said his dads Desoto did the same thing, dumb me had to find out, and it really would!!To shift between low range and high range ,you used the clutch in the conventional way, great system and darn near indestructible.