1959 Frigidaire Appliance Line

[appnut]

rich, most dishwashers back then had the heating element run throughout the entire wash phase and on into the dry phase. It just was used to maintain water temp at best. Segments of wash cycles were only no more than 5-7 minutes long at most back then. Rinses were 1-2 minute periods. So the heater was not of much use due to quick water changes. Our TOL 1960 Waste King heated the final rinse water to 150 or 155. KitchenAid I don't think had a SaniWash cycle on their Superbas until the KDS15 series. If you'll notice, I think the Sears Catalog has the Lady Kenmore dishwasher Heavy Soil button heat wash water to 140 degrees. Neighbors across the street had a roll-out Westinghouse dishwasher when the house was built in 1961. That had a switch to select heat-delayed main wash & final rinse to eiteher 140 or 150 degrees. This was an impeller machine. I believe the TOL GE roll-out dishwasher had a red cycle button which implied delayed water heating probably. Frigidaire dind't have an extended wash phase in their machines until 1964 or 1965 Imperial Models came out with their wash-arm based machines. Besides, most people kept their water heaters set at 140-160 degrees anyway.

 

[sudsmaster]

Bob,

Well, the Hobart/KA (HOKA) dishwashers, with the big heavy cast iron wash arm, didn't have water heaters. They did have heated dry, however, but that's not quite the same. Not sure when the cast iron HOKA's were changed over to the stainless arms, or when the water heaters were added, but my '58 doesn't have an internal water heater - I doubt that any of the cast-iron wash arm models did.

The HOKA attempts to make up for this by purging the water line, sort of a pre-wash, before going into the full wash. The cycles are quick enough that I guess the water in the plumbing between the dishwasher and the water heater doesn't cool down much between purge and wash.

It's interesting that Frigidaire offers its water heaters in both glass lined and the cheaper galvanized tanks. My understanding is that galvanized was a poor option for a water heater tank, which is why you don't find them for sale today. The reason is that at higher temperatures, such as above 160F, the zinc coating reverses its anodic behavior, and instead of protecting the steel, it starts attacking the steel of the tank (the steel becomes sacrificial to the zinc). This may have been more of a problem for gas-fired water heaters than electric ones, since the gas ones probably had more localized hot spots on the tank walls/bottom than the electric ones with their suspended elements. But with temps above 160F, perhaps even an electric water heater might have a short life with a galvanized tank.

 

[toggleswitch]

FABULOUS THREAD thank you for posting!

~I am the queen of our kitchen!
Toggles, put y'all in a double-wide and you got a hit country song!!

DAMN I'VE BEEN DISCOVERED.

Swiped this out of my great-aunt's house. She was a major pack-rat. G-d rest her soul! Colyerism superb!

A POS souvenir from Carson City Catskill, NY but it has value to me!

 

[toggleswitch]

Did anyone catch the reverse-cycle heating (heat-pump) feature of the air-condtioner?

Amazing that it took so long to go mainstream.

 

[sudsmaster]

Yep, that little plaque reeks of schlock. Not that there's anything wrong with that, LOL.

I did notice the heat exchanger capability of the Frigidaire "Comfort without cost" A/C units. It looks like the GM engineers were determined to cover all the bases. I wasn't aware that heat pumps were unusual in 1959, though. When did they become common in the USA?

 

[rapidry1000]

Rich

The regional Frigidaire distribution center was located in your town of San Leandro on 1700 Marina Blvd 94577. I have an envelope from Frigidaire postmarked January 1968.

James

 

[sudsmaster]

I believe that address would now be an auto dealership. About five years ago the city demolished a lot of businesses on Marina Blvd and built an "auto row" on Marina Blvd between 880 and San Leandro Blvd. Gone also is the GM training center on Marina near the Nimitz. Another auto dealership instead.

 

[3-ring]

This is so cool - Thank you for sharing. Does anyone have something similar for the '61 or '62 Frigidaire product line?

 

[foraloysius]

Wonderful brochure!!!

I'll wear that crown to get those appliances. LOL

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks.

Greg (Gansky)'s posting of the Sears sales brochure inspired me to scan and post this entire GM Frigidaire brochure.

I wonder who was responsible for the various artwork in the brochure. Real people sat at easels and drew/painted the various appliances and models, including my favorite, the fanciful painting of what goes on inside a pulsator washer drum during a wash. I hear Debussy's "La Mer" when I see that painting...

 

[stevet]

right on the money!

Sudsmaster and Appnut, you are both right on the money with the old HOKA dishwashers. There was never a heating element in the tank until the KDS15 series and only on the Superbas as they had the 180 Degree Sani Cycle. The UM based(Hobart Commercial Undercounter) 10-14's had no supplemental heater at all. Some of the 16 series Imperials had a lower wattage element which boosted the water temperatures, but no Sani Cycle with the Superbas, coming with the 1400 watt element.
I will stand to be corrected, but I beleieve the 17 series had the water purge at the beginning of the cycle but not in between the cycle segments. Some say the 18 does too, but there is a longer circulation of the water than in the purges we heve gotten used to. I know for sure the 21's had them between all phases and I used to remove the flow washer in the valve on ours so it was like getting a full rinse in between each segment as well as a guarantee of a fill water charge as well. Talk about really cleaning!
Hobart continued this design philosophy even up to the 18 series with the Custom models missing the element altogether. True, we were still setting our water heaters up higher then so I guess they figured it wasnt always needed.

Personally, I have never bought into the notion of setting my water heater at 120 degrees since it would require the dishwasher to run longer to heat its own water and when a person showers, they would draw more of the heated water than if they had to mix cold water to temper the hotter water. I never did any scientific analysis and I am sure engineers have done so, but it seems more of us were able to shower consecutively when the tank was set higher, thus the less hot water more cold water scenario.
Once Hobart went to the 19 and up series, almost all of their machines had elements to heat the water in one form or another.

What was so interesting was that all the same European models of the american units, whether domestic or commercial were fitted with water heaters and in the case of the commercial units, could be optioned to have built in 180 Degree water boosters under the machines like nearly all the commercial units today. Ocne again showing that the European designs were always light years ahead of our machines.

 

[launderess]

Remember European automatic dishwashers like washing machines, had heaters mainly because homes on that side of the pond lacked the huge storage tank hot water heaters found in the United States. It is much more efficient to heat water for the washing machine or dishwasher internally, than crank up the boiler or whatever means a European home used to generate hot water. Installation is eaiser as well since the machines do not require only cold water.

As for the booster heater units, as with commercial dishwashers in the United States, the name of the game is speed. While it is possible to build commercial dishwashers that will heat water to 180F or even 200F, even at 220V/3 phase power it is going to take some time. A tankless "booster" heater can crank out 180F water quickly for all fills, thus cycles are faster, even if the final rinse is boosted to 200F.

Hot Water Heaters Set To 120F

IIRC, this came about out of two conerns; energy use and safety. Unless some sort of mixer valve is installed at faucets, persons can get seriously scaled by hot water over say 130F. Especially the elderly and very young who have a hard time feeling temperature.

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

Steve,

I can confirm that my KDC-17A has no internal water heater. It does have a 1,000 watt heated air dry, though ;-).

When you think about it, people used to wash dishes by hand for decades, if not centuries. They rarely used water much above 116F, because that's the temp at which scalding starts. Rubber gloves allow one to go a bit higher, but even then the rubber heats up and can be uncomfortable. In my mind, esp for hard surfaces, the goal should be complete cleaning, not necessarily high temps - although high temps usually help with complete cleaning.

As may have been discussed before, one solution for the scalding issue is to have mixing valves at various people-friendly locations - bathroom sink, tub, shower, for example. These can automatically add cold to hot to keep the temp at 120F or lower. For appliances that people are not *supposed* to get their hands into, like dishwashers and clothes washers, the high temp output of the water heater could be attached directly.

Around here I keep the hot water heater around 135F. For the vintage HOKA dishwasher, that results in a wash/rinse temp of about 120F. It seems to be hot enough for good results - the very strong water spray uses physical energy to make up for thermal.

 

[launderess]

There is also the fact automatic dishwasher detergents, both commercial and domestic are moving away from high alkaline and chlorine based products, to enzymes. Enzymes have a sweet spot at round 120F to 140F, and according to Consumer Reports, detergents containing enzymes beat the socks off those without.

Just as with laundry, enzymes allow high temperature cleaning results, without the very high temperature,which saves energy. Commercial dishwashers, of course must either use a high temperature rinse or chemicals (usually chlorine bleach), for sanitation of dishes, per most local health codes.

It would be interesting to retest many of the vintage dishwashers that got bad reviews/results in cleaning, using modern enzyme detergents.

 

[sudsmaster]

I wonder if the very short wash cycles of vintage dishwashers are really long enough for enzymes to do their thing.

Perhaps?

 

[Unimatic1140]

I wonder if the very short wash cycles of vintage dishwashers are really long enough for enzymes to do their thing.

Is this detergent enzyme based? I find it cleans better in the vintage machines than any other dw detergent I've have ever used. Granted baked on stuff needs to be soaked in the sink for a 2 hours before you wash it in a vintage machine for it to get it completely clean, but I don't mind doing that, I mean the only other option is to have a modern dishwasher in the kitchen that washes for 2 hours, but I rather soak for 2 hours and have beautiful vintage machines in the kitchen. Just a personal preference.

 

[launderess]

Yes, the aabove does contain enzymes.

Pipe:

http://www.pg.com/content/pdf/01_ab...f;jsessionid=PWAJNPDY4BKGDQFIAJ4HKZGAVABHO3MM

 

[sudsmaster]

Robert,

I also like those little Cascade/Dawn packets, mainly because they are so well suited to being placed on the upper rack of the KD-2P. Usually I wait for the initial hot water purge to finish, before I put them in, as there is some inevitable splashing from the purge fill that might rupture the gel packet.

Once I tried using two; I didn't notice any difference in cleaning, so I went back to just one.

Your point about a 2 hour pre-soak in the sink vs a 2 hour modern dishwasher is valid. What I like about the KD-2P is that I can remove the upper tray and fit large objects in there that might not fit even in a modern dw with the upper rack removed. It's quite a tall space. However I'm not really biased against the modern ones, as long as they work. In my mind, anything beats washing dishes by hand.

 

[launderess]

Yes Sir!

Have a Kenmore (built by Frigidaire) 18" portable for over 10 years now, and while it is nothing fancy, it gets the job done. I like that the machine has mechanical controls, so can "customise" cycles as one wishes, such as add an extra rinse.

Anything to avoid washing dishes by hand gets my vote!
Have found with today's TOL automatic dishwasher detergents, even the poorest of dishwashers can give good results.

 

[westtexman]

Gone are the days . . .

I guess I missed out on that generation where one could come home every evening and have a nice home-cooked dinner on the table. Those big stoves and other gadgets seemed to appeal to the 1950's housewife who seemed to cook a gourmet dinner every night of the week!

I was raised mostly in the 1980's, where TV dinners, Spaghetti O's and pre-packaged food made for the microwave were so popular.

It seems I eat out more than I eat at home, and so now my favorite place to go for dinner is anywhere they have a good old-fashioned home-cooked meal!

 

[mattl]

I remember...

My mom, now I, have that '59 CI stove and she did use it to cook meals every night. Sometimes fancy, often just good cooking. If we went out for dinner, rarely, it was always to a nice restaurant. We might get to go to McD's once a year! Also, rare to have a Coke in the house, always milk or Kool-Aid. We weren't poor, you couldn't be and pay $600+ in 1959 for a stove, but we lived in a time that wasn't as high pressure and processed.

It must have took, I cook all the time, have to have a large salad, a vegetable and a starch with my meat. And I still use that Frigidaire CI from time to time.

 

[tolivac]

Big ranges could be making a comeback-In a Williams Sonoma magazine I just got in the mail they show a Gaggenu or something like that-for 8 grand-and $1300 for shipping and delivory.They also said "Makes a great Christmas gift for that someone special"The unit has gas burners and twin electric ovens.Counts me out-my place doesn't have gas!I could only run the ovens!

 

[bajaespuma]

Talk to me first about Gaggenau

Gaggenau gas burners are a pain in the @$$

 

[tolivac]

I looked in the catalog again this morning-it was a LaCornue!Anyone heard of that one?Sounds like the high shipping cost is becuase the stove has to come from France?for just the price of shipping--I think I could find a range that would work just fine!