1959 Hotpoint Refrigerator Not Cooling

[atomicmechanic]

Hey All!
I Purchased this 1959 Hotpoint about a year ago ago and I recall it being cold when I bought it. But it sat in storage for a year before it was moved here. It was transported vertically (it was on it side for 30 seconds being put in the truck) and then sat for 3 hours.

The main issue is it is not cooling properly, the freezer is getting to like 55 degree and the main food area about 65 after running for 24 hrs. The compressor doesn't sound like it's having any issue other ran running perpetually.
The cooling coils in the fridge are getting cold on one side but not as cold on the exit side.
I think it might need some more freon. I've attached a picture of the port on the low side. But I don't know what I would need to recharge it? Can anyone walk me through how to recharge the R12? What kind of adapter I need for this? Thanks!

 

[turquoisedude]

Beautfiul refrigerator!!   I've run into this issue with a couple of my fridges - sadly both had weak compressors... 

 

[rp2813]

Hasn't our resident fridge whisperer David identified this type of problem before as an issue with a capillary tube?

 

The risk you take when transporting an old refrigerator is that something gets disturbed and creates a blockage somewhere in the sealed system.  Unless you have expertise in refrigeration theory or know someone who does (not some random repair person who could end up performing costly, improper and ineffective work that will only make things worse), you'll end up down a rabbit hole trying to locate the source of the problem.

 

Unfortunately, David lives far from central California, but he may chime in here to advise on ways to diagnose the issue and isolate the trouble spot.  If you have the skills and equipment, it could turn out to be a DIY repair.

 

This is the first Hotpoint I can recall that has the awesome swing-out shelving system like its GE contemporaries.  I hope you can get it cooling properly again.

 

[goatfarmer]

David, or John (combo52) should be able to help.

 

[atomicmechanic]

I have some DIY skills, I'm a mechanical Engineering Student who fixes classic cars for fun, But I've never repaired one of these only refrigerators. I Purchased the service manual but it's only advice was to check for leaks with a Halide torch. Hopefully this David can help me find a solution!

 

[rp2813]

Here's some reading material for you.  The subject refrigerators are GE, but your Hotpoint should have a similar system.

 

 

1955 GE Fridge compressor running non-stop

Hello everyone, second time posting on here. You guys are my last hope since all my leads are coming up dry and no refrigeration techs want to help me out. I have a 1955 LH-12 GE refrigerator with a compressor that does not stop running. Fridge cabinet temps range from 32-40 deg with freezer...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

 

 https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?81040

 

[combo52]

Very likely a weak compressor, 1st thing to do is a vacuum test on the compressor as the GE Manuel describes, if the compressor can still pull 30" of vacuum then replace the filter dryer and put the recovered R-12 refrigerant back in.

 

Otherwise look for a good used modern R-134 compressor install and charge with R-134 refrigerant.

 

John L.

 

[atomicmechanic]

What would I need to run these tests on the compressor? I have nothing in the way of knowledge of the tools used for repairing these old fridges so you might have to be a little bit on the specific side.

 

[atomicmechanic]

So, An update on the fridge, i tested it and it was oulling about 25lbs, so i refilled with an R12 substitute (envirosafe). however im not sure that i fully evacuated the system. The fresh food section is getting plenty cold now, even icing over the coils and freezing some things that are too close if i turn up the cold setting.

However the Issue i now have is that the freezer portion ( combo fridge) is not getting cold enough to actually freeze anything inside, there is a frost pettern on the bottom of the freezer, but trying to freeze ice or anthing else doesnt work. does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be causing this? does anyone know if the R!@ substitue needs to be pressurized to a higher low side pressure than normal R12?

Thanks!!

 

[combo52]

Did you replace the filter dryer?

You need to pull at least a 30 inch vacuum before you charge it.

If it only pull a 25 inch vacuum the compressor is probably shot.

John

 

[atomicmechanic]

I did not, I couldn't find anything in the service manual about a filter dryer so I didn't know if it it actually had one. Where would I look for this at?

Also, would the compressor be shot if it's icing over the coils inside the fresh food compartment?

 

[turbokinetic]

Hi Mike.  I tend to agree with John L. in that most likely the compressor is not healthy. However, before condemning it, a couple things need to be clarified.   When you say it was "oulling about 25 lbs" that is very unclear. I promise I'm not being pedantic but it really matters that we understand exactly what test you were doing.  If you mean that "while running and charged with refrigerant, the lowest pressure you saw on the low side was 25 PSIG on your gauge," that could mean several things.  If you had "capped the compressor suction line, allowing the compressor to pull into a vacuum; but all it would do us pull down to 25 inches mercury vacuum;" that has an entirely different meaning. 

If you did the capped suction ultimate vacuum test, and got only 25"Hg vacuum, even after several minutes, and after all flow coming out of the discharge line had stopped - that means the compressor is internally bypassing and is not able to pump effectively. 

If the system was running and charged; and would not pull down below 25PSI on the low side then there are a couple possibilities. The first and most likely one is that the compressor is worn out seeing which model compressor you have. 

A very high amount of noncondensable gas (air) in the system can drive up the pressure, but it would have to be quite a lot of NCG, such as trying to charge without pulling any vacuum.  You mention you were concerned about the quality of the vacuum you were able to attain.  Can you clarify how you evacuated and why you weren't confident?

 

Another problem which can cause high suction side pressure is if the system is overcharged. If that is the case, the suction line will frost up all the way back to the compressor. If it's badly enough overcharged, it may not frost at all but will be cold and sweating all the way to the compressor.  

The manner in which the fridge can be cool enough but not the freezer, is due to the high suction pressure. That limits how cold the coils get. It may be cold enough to get some frost on the lines, but not cold enough to freeze things in the freezer. Once the system is all stabilized, frosted, and the thermostat is cycling normally, it should pull down to around 0 PSI or lower, while running and fully charged. This is a very typical symptom of these compressors when they begin to fail.

One more large unknown is the EniroSafe refrigerant. I have had horrible luck with that back when the R12 phase-out started. I haven't bought nor used it in years, but back when they were selling it initially, they claimed it was both an R12 and an R22 replacement. That is simply not possible because those two refrigerants have completely different pressure-temperature relationships. EnviroSafe is a propane butane blend, and as a blend it is going to have some problems in many older systems.

You need to go with a single-component refrigerant. If I were you, I would do a compressor vacuum check, and if the compressor was able to make full vacuum, recharge with R152A and see if you get any better results. If that doesn't do the trick, get an R134A compressor and use that. I had a fridge with this compressor recently, and made this video about it:

 

 

 

 

[atomicmechanic]

So, long overdue update on the Hotpoint. After adding a bit more refrigerant, the Old girl ran great for the last 10 months or so.

Up until about 2 weeks ago when it suddenly stopped getting so cold. The only thing that had change was that I dialed the thermostat down from '8' to '6'since we were going out of town for the weekend.

When I got back and noticed it wasnt very cold I checked the pressure on the low side with a gauge and the pressure were the same as they had been. Hovers around 45 PSI on the gauge when off and drops to about 20 when running. He condenser coils are pretty warm at the top and fade down the back as I assumed is normal.Though I noticed that it doesn't seem to run very long. Seems to only run for about 5ish minutes even though the Temps in the cabinet are high.

Is it possible that the thermostat has failed? Does that seem to be consistent with the symptoms?

 

[turbokinetic]

That does sound like the thermostat isn't working correctly, since it's only running for 5 minutes and stopping. Normally if it's a start relay problem the short cycles will be very short; maybe 5 seconds.  It sounds like the compressor is running normally while it's running, just cutting off too early.

 

[atomicmechanic]

Thanks for the reply Turbokinetic, do you know if it's possible to rebuild these thermostats or is it more feasible to just replace it with a modern one? I have the service manual if you need me to look up anything. Though I'm guessing I'll need to pull the old one to find the part number for cross reference.

 

[sudsmaster]

 

 

Could be a leak in the system.

 

 

[turbokinetic]

Mike, I'm not 100% sure about the configuration of your fridge, as far as the thermostat goes. It appears to be a cycle-defrost design with the thermostat measuring the temperature of the fridge compartment evaporator plate. If that is the case, you will need a constant-cut-in thermostat for proper defrosting of the cold-plate between cycles.  The Robertshaw / Ranco 3030-405 would likely be a good choice for your fridge but it may be hard to locate. Some may be out there but I am afraid that is out of production according to the Robertshaw website.   They sell a very close match which is the 3030-404. It is a couple degrees different in the adjustment limits, but should work.

 

Here is a link to it: https://www.robertshaw.com/Products...ntrols/Cold-Controls/3030-404/?cat=2147483735   Note that they show cross-reference charts on the site above where you might be able to locate the original one and see what its settings originally were.

 

I would search for a 3030-405 and a 3030-404. Either should work. 

 

 

 

[atomicmechanic]

TurboKinetic-
So after looking at the repair manual, it is most definitely a constant cut on model. I also finally got around to putting the thermostat stonight to have a look at any of the markings after Google search I can't really find anything as a cross reference, But the manual has the cut on/off Temps at 37+/- 1° and 1+/-3° at the max cold settings. Hopefully this and the images help

 

[turbokinetic]

The closest thing I could find is the 3030-404 with its 39° constant cut-in and a -5° normal cutoff.  This one can go colder at its coldest setting so that you would likely not need to turn the knob as far when setting your cabinet temp. However, it's getting very hard to get this type of control. Everything made for decades now uses electronics in lieu of a complex control such as this. We're fortunate that any of these are still being made.