1966 Turquoise Kenmore 800 Question

[pulsator]

I've finally got a free couple of days to work on the 1966 turquoise Kenmore washer! It's cleaning up beautifully and I decided to see what was up with the mechanicals. After getting rid of that awful mercury lid switch, I put some hot soapy water in the machine and let it sit for a bit. Then I turned it on. The machine is pretty loud, I think it could use some lithium grease in the motor and pulley bearings. The belt is a bit loose but still flexible. When I started the machine, I put it in a drain. The motor came to life and no water came out. I looked at the pump and the pulley is spinning, so it's not jammed... My bf blew air up the drain hose until it bubbled into the tub so it's not clogged... What gives? Even in spin nothing comes out. I'm totally stumped! Any ideas?

P.S. We also tried adding extra tension to the belt with our own idler pulley and that didn't help either.

 

[Unimatic1140]

Jamie that pump has two positions controlled by a lever that attaches to the agitate cam bar. If for whatever reason it is stuck in recirculation mode it won't drain.

 

[pulsator]

That did it!!! I wiggled it to an from and now it switches modes by itself! Thank you Robert!

Now I have three other issues...
-the agitator sounds like it's scraping on something when I turn it
-the drum makes a really weird whiny sound getting higher pitched as it accelerates
-the motor is super loud

Are all of these problems ones that require grease?

 

[rickr]

Hi Jamie, I used to have a 1965 Kenmore set, and the washer motor was very noisy also. Someone had over tightened the belt, which destroyed the motor bushings. I simply replaced the motor with a used one, that I purchased at an appliance parts store for $25.00 The belts should never be too tight on the belt drive WP/KM machines. It is very hard on the pump bushings too.

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Jamie -

Agitators will sometimes rub on the basket centerpost. Not so much the bakelite ones, but the polypropylene ones for sure. If this machine was actually constructed in 1967, it may well have a splined polypropylene agitator (the first year was black). If the agitator is properly seated and the tub is not askew on the drive block, I don't think I'd worry about this, especially if you have a 'propylene agitator.

As to the whirring sound in the basket, all belt drives do that to one degree or another when spinning empty, especially with the lid down. The sound usually changes with the lid up, and with a load of laundry in the machine. The larger the basket, the deeper this sound, which is kinda cool.

As to the motor sound, if you remove the belt from the drive pulley and run the motor by itself, you can find out how much of the noise is directly attributable to the motor itself. Other things that can worsen noise are a dry belt (quite a bit), a pump going bad (a little), a dry basket drive pulley (a LOT), and even the main transmission drive pulley (it makes a pulley echo sound).

If the motor is contributing all the noise, I'd look at the mounting bracket rubber insulators.

Gordon

 

[pulsator]

It's still pretty loud with the belt off so maybe I need to replace the motor or the motor isolators. (I hate having to take the motors off of these things...)

 

Here's a video showing high and low agitation and high spin. Probably best to up the quality to here it better.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Jamie -

I think there's a couple things going on with your machine.

First, I suspect it has dry bearings. There is not a huge amount of turbine oil in these bearings to begin with, but when a machine sits for a long time, what's there will seep out, down the spin tube and out the lower bearing. What happens after is the dry spin tube will make creaking and scraping sounds on the bearings. This also can create a sluggish acceleration as well as a less than full final spin speed as this creates a lot of friction.

Also, I think your belt is loose. To oil the bearings you have to take all that apart anyway, so I think I would install a new belt when you lube the bearings, and see what you have. The machine's personality will be very much changed.

I don't hear much wrong with the motor, but will give another listen after dinner!

Thanks for the video!

Gordon

 

[pulsator]

Awesome! Thank you!!! Is there any particular kind of turbine oil I should buy? Where all does the oil need to go? Just at the shaft of each pulley? Does the tub need to come out to lube those bearings?

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Jamie -

I use Zoom Spout oil, or whatever brand turbine oil my appliance parts place has at the time.

Unfortunately, to lubricate the bearings, you have to remove the transmission from the machine. There is a multi-step process in doing this. I'll give you a brief summary:

1) Remove agitator
2) Remove tub ring and wash basket, then carefully lay washer on its front
3) Remove belt from motor pulley, loosen motor and slide motor to the far left
4) Remove hoses from pump and disconnect pump from transmission (it is easier to remove the gearcase with the pump out of the way, but it isn't completely necessary)
5) Remove transmission braces (3)
6) Disconnect wires from wig-wag, stow wiring out of way so they don't snag
7) Remove three gearcase mounting bolts
8) If you're lucky, gearcase will come out without getting hung up. Doing the steps above will pull the gearcase and basket drive as one unit.

There are MUCH more detailed instructions out there in service manuals and probably even other posts on AW.org, but this gives you a general idea. If you want to do this, let me know and I'll be more specific.

This is not a light-weight DIY procedure, so be ready for the joys of working on vintage equipment when you start this.

Gordon

 

[pulsator]

Well, if its the right thing for this machine to get it functioning the way it should, I'd like to do it. This machine has been coming apart (intentionally) much easier than any other vintage washer I've worked on so that's got to be a good sign!

 

[pulsator]

Uh oh...

The machine is tipped almost on its front and sat that way all night. This oil wasn't there yesterday... Any clues what I should do? Do I need to get more oil for the transmission?

The picture is gonna get turned since I'm posting this on my iPhone btw...

 

[frigilux]

I would make it through step #1, at which point the swearing and smashing of things would commence.

You guys never cease to amaze. Good luck, Jamie, and may the gods of nuts and bolts be with you!

 

[swestoyz]

Jamie -

 

The oil is normal.   When you leave a BD on it's side for more than a few minutes, it will start to slowly drip where the agitator shaft comes out of the transmission.  I don't normally leave these on their side for too long (i.e. over night). 

 

The small loss of oil isn't a big deal.  You should be fine. 

 

Gordon's instructions above are pretty good!  I don't normally remove the pump from the transmission - I usually just disconnect the hoses.  Also, the basket drive block will need to be removed - part of step 2. 

 

Ben

 

[pulsator]

Glad it's not a big deal!!!

How does the basket drive come off? Is it a regular right hand thread? I can never remember.

 

[jetcone]

Nice color Jamie

I bet turquoisedude is SO jealous right now!!

It sounds pretty good, just a little lube. 

 

[pulsator]

Well, I got the motor isolators sorted out...

I wasn't able to get the original part but I was able to get ones that work quite nicely from an auto supply store. They are designed for wiper motors and say that they can also be used in other applications. They are thicker than the old motor isolators so I cranked them down a bit extra to squish them to the right size. The machine is a LOT quieter now, but still makes some funny noises here and there so I will still go ahead with lubricating the bearings (and tearing everything apart...)

 

I've also bought a new belt since it'll be apart anyway and will replace it when it's time. In the meantime, I wanted to see if the new motor isolator grommets worked so I put the old belt back on. It was VERY loose before so I tightened it a bit and it seems to be having some troubles. According to the instructions that came with the belt, it should deflect about a half inch between the motor and drive pulley with 9-10lbs of force. It still deflects a lot further than that with a lot less force. Is it different with the older machines? Should it be far less force?

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Jamie -

Ben is right about the oil. Any belt-drive washer with normal wear on the gearcase will drip some oil when the machine is layed down. I don't leave them on their sides very long either. Some drip a lot, some not much. The only time I've seen them not drip is when I've changed the agitator shaft seal. There is 15 ounces of oil in the gearcase, and far more than it needs. That spillage is not a big deal. On the good side, the oil is not discolored, which is a sign of gearcase health.

Listening to your new video, the machine sounds good, better than it did. I hear a dry basket drive pulley wobbling in idle - further disassembly required :-(

As to the belt, the machine behaves as though it is still loose. It should be easy to tighten, but both motor mounting bolts need to be loose enough to allow that when you do so. If you have a really long screw driver or hammer handle (the one I like is about 18 inches long) or even a tree stake, use that as a lever between the two mounting brackets and you can tighten the motor very easily when the mounting bolts are loose. Tighten down the visible one on the baseplate, then tighten the one behind the motor when you're done.

To remove the basket drive, follow my steps above and it will come out with the gearcase. To get it off the gearcase, you simply remove the spring on the one side of the drive yoke, remove the retainer pin on the other side, and it should be able to be slid up the agitator shaft, and off. When removing the retainer pin (a cotter pin) be careful, the spring may go flying. I lost one in my garage one time and never ever found it.

Keep us posted! I'll document how to get the basket drive apart when you are ready.

Gordon

 

[combo52]

1966 KM Washer

Jamie Congraudlations on getting this great and beauitful washer, it does seem however that it was used more than ten times in its life.

 

The good news is that it seems to be a low use survivor, but as you have found out it does need some attention. I have listened to your videos and read all the above comments and I think that you should be able to get this washer into great running shape [ probably without pulling the basket drive and transmission out ] and have this washer work perfectly for the next twenty years or more of light or occasional use.

 

At this point I would change the belt and oil the clutch pulley bearing, I would thoroughly clean the clutch lining with brake cleaner so the machine will not bog down going into spin. This can all be done without taking anything apart [ I oil the clutch pulley bearing every time I work on anything under a BD WP built washer, I am sure I have done this at least 500 times ].

 

I would also remove and service the water pump or replace it if you like, however you can eaisly dissemble the pump on your washer and relubracte it and turn the top bearing for longer life.

 

I would also replace the rubber water valve seats in the inlet valve or just get a new inlet valve, the correct valve is still available from WP for a reasonable price.

 

The other big thing to do is lubricating the center post bearings and replacing the top spin-tube seals this again can be done WITHOUT removing the basket drive and transmission from the washer, I have done this procedure at least a hundred times. To do this you do have to remove the wash basket so this is also a great time to clean up the inside of the outer tub and re coat any rust issues with marine epoxy enamel, you can also reseal the outer tub center post seal at this time after cleaning again WITHOUT trying to remove the outer tub from the washer.

 

The other thing I like to do if you want to keep a machine like this long into the future  is try to find an extra timer and maybe even an extra timer dial, these are two important parts that will stop a machine from working properly in the future that are good to have around, almost anything else can be found for this washer that you will ever likely need.

 

If you need any details how any of this is done call me, and Good Luck with this cool washer, John.

 

[combo52]

1966 KM Washer

Jamie Congratulations on getting this great and beautiful washer, it does seem however that it was used more than ten times in its life.

 

The good news is that it seems to be a low use survivor, but as you have found out it does need some attention. I have listened to your videos and read all the above comments and I think that you should be able to get this washer into great running shape [ probably without pulling the basket drive and transmission out ] and have this washer work perfectly for the next twenty years or more of light or occasional use.

 

At this point I would change the belt and oil the clutch pulley bearing, I would thoroughly clean the clutch lining with brake cleaner so the machine will not bog down going into spin. This can all be done without taking anything apart [ I oil the clutch pulley bearing every time I work on anything under a BD WP built washer, I am sure I have done this at least 500 times ].

 

I would also remove and service the water pump or replace it if you like, however you can eaisly dissemble the pump on your washer and relubracte it and turn the top bearing for longer life.

 

I would also replace the rubber water valve seats in the inlet valve or just get a new inlet valve, the correct valve is still available from WP for a reasonable price.

 

The other big thing to do is lubricating the center post bearings and replacing the top spin-tube seals this again can be done WITHOUT removing the basket drive and transmission from the washer, I have done this procedure at least a hundred times. To do this you do have to remove the wash basket so this is also a great time to clean up the inside of the outer tub and re coat any rust issues with marine epoxy enamel, you can also reseal the outer tub center post seal at this time after cleaning again WITHOUT trying to remove the outer tub from the washer.

 

The other thing I like to do if you want to keep a machine like this long into the future  is try to find an extra timer and maybe even an extra timer dial, these are two important parts that will stop a machine from working properly n the future that are good to have around, almost anything else can be found for this washer that you will ever likely need.

 

If you need any details how any of this is done call me, and Good Luck with this cool washer, John.