1967 WCIL Problem

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Not necessarily the worst case

Davy, you may not be SOL on this.
The reason the motor works fine once it is spinning is because it is really two motors in one - a motor to start things turning and one to keep them going once they start.
The starting system on your motor has failed. It may be that a winding has failed and that means the motor will have to be "rewound" by a shop (shouldn't be a big problem).
But there are a couple of things you can check before you assume the worst.
First, the starting sequence involves several components, all subject to enormous stress and strain. Depending on the motor and where in the US it was meant to work you will have at least one capacitor. If it goes, or a wire breaks it could cause this problem - bad capacitors have been known to take other components with them, so you should really replace it/them after all these years in any case). Now before everybody jumps on the "two capacitor? not done" bandwagen, we had a few rollermatics which were set up with two in our dorms. Low voltage and lots of starting loads at once. So don't assume, check. Please remember, a capacitor still has enough charge to kill you or ruin components even after the plug is pulled. Discharge it before you handle it.
Second possibility. The motor may have a centrifugal start switch that has failed. A loose connection or broken part or contacts not touching...many things can go wrong there and with a simple VOM, you can track them down.
Third possibility. Over time, corrosion and wire breaks can leave one wire dead when the one just next to it is still resistance free and working perfectly. Check all the wires in the harness and the connector blocks. Did someone decide to splice something in at some point? Did a wire get pinched?
The schematic diagram may have the details on the two systems in the motor, if it is a standard (and I do belive GM was using standard motors by that point) then there will be a catalog with the data or someone here will know) so you can find out if it is a shorted/dead start winding.
By the way, the direction the motor runs is determined by the starting system, not the field windings. That is why you can spin it in either direction and once it starts, it stays on that way.
 
Panthera, yes it's the GM motor. I checked the connections on the motor and they are fine, no corrosion. No splices either. I won't be able to go any further unless I can get the tub out. I heated the nut, whacked at the wrench with a sledge hammer to no avail. Any other tricks of the trade you know of?
 
Davy,

Oh my stars - that looks like real fun. Not. I think you'd better wait for Samantha or one of the specialists to chime in. Only two suggetions from me.
One, stop whacking your nuts. You aren't gonna get them off, leastways not like that.
Two, We all know how touchy those rollers are about lube. WD-40 or silicone gets on them, you are seriously screwed. So be extra special careful.
Any shots of the motor, data sheet or schematic? Might jog a memory.
 
yeah, I can take as many pics as you like. I'll do that this evening when I get home from work. I'll take one of the schematic (which is on the back of the machine) and of the motor. It looks like water got past the water bellows, doesn't it?

Dave
 
Well that nut is gonna have to come off somehow, I've never seen one so rusted before, but the Unimatics used a stainless one. There should be a lock washer and tab up against that nut, I assume you saw that and pushed the tab downward? You might have to cut that nut off, even if you did get all of the tub bolts out, you will still need to remove the hub in order to pull the mechanism out from below which means that nut has to come out.
 
Lock Washer and Tab??????????

I didn't see any lock washer or tab up against that nut. Is there supposed to be? It might have become as one with the rust that I overlooked it. The only tab I saw was the one above the pulsator diaphragm. If I cut that nut off, does someone have a replacement for me?

Davy
 
motor

This is what happened to my maytag last fall. A turn of the start winding had laid across the metal frame of the motor. After years it had worn thru the 0.001" thk insulation and arced 120v to the metal frame. Vaporizing about 1/8" of the wire.

I had hoped that it was the centrifugal switch, or a capacitor instead, I've seen that too. But alas it was the winding. But...using tiny heat shrink and some spare motor magnetic wire, it was possible to splice the break and restore the motor.

so have hope
(just look for smoke, that's where the problem is.)
 
yeah, I'm gonna try to get those pictures tonight. I felt around the motor and I don't feel any protrusion like a capacitor. Perfectly cylindrical. Before I can go any further, I gotta get that friggin nut off so I can get the tub out and the mechanism sitting on my workbench. So, at this moment, I'm at a standstill. Thanks to you and Unimatic for standing by me on this!! I really want to get this machine running again.
 
The motor start capacitor is mounted on inside of the rear removable panel. It will have three wires going to it.
 
Sorry davy I forgot that the tub nut also has a lock washer

"once the tub is out you can use a small screwdriver to lift the one folded tang which is lapped up against the large mechanism support nut located ontop and against the rubber support cone"

and I forgot to mention the tub nut also has a copper lock washer with tang folded up agianst the nut. You get that tang back down and get a pipe wrench on the nut with a hammer and it will turn
 
usually, yes

The cap. is usually just for starting, but there were variations depending on need.
I don't know the configuration of this motor well enough to guess, but it sounds increasingly like a problem with the starting system - centrifugal starting switch being the most likely.
Does anyone here have the GM service sheet on this motor? Would help Davy more than my general theory.
 
here's a video I just took of the mechanism running

See how wonderfully smooth and quiet it runs? Once it gets going, it's great!

 
Davey try this

Hey Dave, have you tried penetrating oil on that nut? If i was in your situation i would take a wire brush and try to get as much of the rust off as possible then spray it down good with penetrating oil. Just make sure you don't get any of the oil down the agitator/spin shaft. Let the penetrating oil sit for a day or so and then try to remove the tub nut. You might have to spray it down a couple of times and let it soak in. Also i would check the oil and water bellows over very carefully. appears that both are leaking for that nut to be rusted like that. Also as far as the stainless steel screws that you broke off.....once you get the tub out you will need to get the ones that are broken off extracted out so you can put new ones in.......I have some of the stainless screws i can send to you if you want....
Mark
 
Is it possible to try a replacement timer? The thing that bothers me here is that it starts perfectly in one direction but won't start in the other. ** I must point out here that I am not at all familiar with these machines, they were never sold in this country. But I am pretty good with electric motors...The motor uses the exact same windings and switches to start in either direction. It is the timer which connects the start winding one way round or the other to select the direction the motor will turn, and therefore whether the machine will agitate or spin. So, unless I am mistaken in my logic (and that may well be the case) the fault is NOT likely to be in the motor. I am pointing an accusing finger at the timer. This diagnosis is based only on the fact that in the very first post, Davy says that it spins fine but won't agitate. If the motor actually has to be "push started" in both directions, then it is probably the start capacitor or the start winding.I would NOT be even touching the motor or mechanism until I had found and checked the capacitor, it is a much easier repair. Always check the easy stuff first....Example: I have just returned from a couple of days at my elderly parents' place. Mum asked me to "replace the dryer element, as it isn't heating." I brought a new element with me, pulled the damn thing apart to the last nut and bolt as you have to with small Simpson Minimax dryers, then I noticed the element looked OK so I tested it - nothing wrong! I had the difficult task of reassembling the dryer, (the belt tensioner is crude and tends to fly apart if the belt is even fractionally out of alignment), when putting on the back panel with fan assembly, a pencil fell out of the air outlet.  The real fault was that the pencil had been left on top of the dryer, fallen into the exhaust air duct which points up (it is not vented outside), and jammed the fan. Extract pencil, fan turns, draws hot air through dryer. No more problem.  I have re-fitted the vent outlet to blow sideways instead of up, to stop any more objects falling in...Chris.
 

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