1967 WCIL Problem

[Unimatic1140]

Wait a Minute!

You know I totally agree with Chris' post above. I just went back to your first post and reread it, it gives a very important clue which I didn't notice before:

"It seems as if it's the motor (regretfully). It spins with no issues but it just seems to have an issue agitating. "

***bangs head on wall for skimming thread for pictures and not reading properly***

As Chris stated, if a motor operates in one direction it can operate in the other direction. If the mechanism in not binding or hard to turn then starting the motor in agitation is much easier than starting the motor in spin. I've seen capacitor issues where the motor had trouble starting in spin and agitation was fine, but not the reverse (unless there are two separate starting capacitors like in the Frigidiare Super-Duty coin-ops). I'm pretty sure the problem most likely is in the timer now. The timer needs to reverse the neutral and hot leads to the motor in order to revere the direction, if one of the contacts on the spin side is dirty or burned it could cause this problem.

It might be time for a timer-ectamy?

 

[rickr]

Hi Robert, I know on my 66 Rapid Dry the capacitor is in one case, but is two capacitors in one. There are three wires to the cap. The plug in connectors are both "hot" and the other wire that is soldered on the cap is neutral.

I had to replace mine with two caps, and wired the caps together, making the two outside connectors "hot" and the two inside connectors wired together as neutral.
My 66 spins and agitates fine now.

Do you think that one side of the cap may be defective on his machine?

 

[Unimatic1140]

I know on my 66 Rapid Dry the capacitor is in one case, but is two capacitors in one.

Yes if this machine does indeed have two capacitors (one for wash and one for spin) then the Agitate cap could be the issue as well. But I did just check the wiring diagram of the 1967 WCIL and I don't see any capacitors listed, unless they are not shown for what ever reason.

 

[davy1063]

NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT....

If I futz with the timer (push it in and out a couple of times) that gets it going. I wasn't sure if if was just the momentum of the windings getting the motor spinning after doing that or what. Let me check the connections on the timer this evening. Does anyone have a timer laying around (LOL). Also if that's the case, I'm still having difficulty in removing the timer knob. I had a post on this a while ago and we weren't able to determine how to get the bugger off.

 

[Unimatic1140]

So now you know what the problem is.

According to the 1967 Tech-Talk the WCIL knob is removed by:

"Remove the timer knob by pulling out firmly on the knob and turning it counterclockwise.

If it is stuck you might have to heat it (just the knob itself) gently with a heat gun first.

 

[davy1063]

Motor diagram

Here is a page out of the TechTalk manual. Just to rule out the motor...if I meter across the terminals and get the readings listed, would that at least give the windings a clear bill of health? I know it wouldn't rule out the capacitor(s) and I'm leaning with Uni on the timer, but just to be sure.....

 

[Unimatic1140]

Capacitor(s) ??

Davy, did you find any capacitors in that machine? They would be mounted on the rear service panel or on the motor if so. According to the wiring diagram there aren't any.

 

[panthera]

yes...and no

If you disconnect the motor from the harness and test, then yes - you should be able to quickly find out one of three states.
1) Motor OK. Leaves wiring, cap(s), centrifugal starter,timer (contact? - Wasn't GM using that one plastic wheel as cam tracks for all the followers in 1967?)
2) Motor not ok, winding dead. You may still have another problem which killed it, but this would mean either a rebuild, or, as someone mentioned above - you get lucky and find where it vaporized.
3) Motor tests with one winding dead or shorted but the fault lies with the starting mechanism.

Personally, I suspect the field windings are ok, problem lies in contacts - either starter or timer,

Don't get too hyper about the resistance being a bit high or low for any one measurement. Be sure to also measure all to ground. Sound like a scratched CD here, but remember - the caps. are still carrying one hell of a load.

 

[panthera]

of course

Being very cautious, you could also test the female connector. If the start wire for spin were dead, that would mean either the cap, wiring or (shudder) timer.
Probably safest to discharge the caps, take them out of circuit, then (after jumpering their connections) test for continuity with the VOM and not 125VAC. Caps. filter DC, so you'd have to take them out of the circuit.

 

[davy1063]

there are no capacitors on the service panel. there is nothing that I can see on the motor. I looked at the schematic and the only thing it shows is the connector and the color codes. No other info.

 

[panthera]

some do, some don't

Davy,
Whether or not a machine has none, one or more caps. installed depends on various factors. Frigidaire offered a simple retro-fit cap. to dealers for customers in low-voltage areas for those washers sold without. So you may not have one. I had a '67 without; added one following the service bulletin when I moved up into the mountains and 125V was very "nominal". Was more like 105V, even the phase was seriously unstable.. My only concern was you don't hurt yourself or the thumper by overlooking one. So, no cap.....that means let's hope you have a broken wire in the harness.

 

[trainguy]

Dave,

I'm still digging through my stuff for a tub nut. I've got lots of NOS water bellows. Did you need a new one?

Rich

 

[davy1063]

Water Bellows...

Rich, it might be a good idea to replace the water bellows since there is evidence of water infiltration.

Does the motor use the same start windings for spin as agitate? I'm trying to narrow down issues like:
1) timer
2) capacitor (if any)

I'm going to make a cheater cord to test the motor and bypass the timer as per the Repair Master.

If there is anything else you think I might want to replace while it's apart, please let me know. I owe you another dinner at Maliboos!!!!

 

[trainguy]

Tub Nutz

Dave,

Well persistence paid off. Three different tub nuts are pictured, but at least one is yours. I bought this box wrench on eBay a while back. Someday I'll take it to a machine shop and have them cut it in half. I can't tell you how many times I needed it.

Rich

 

[davy1063]

the one on the bottom is the one!