1975 A806 Won't Agitate
- Thread starter hoys
- Start date
beekeyknee
Well-known member
I suppose your drive lug underneath the rubber cap could have come loose, but that doesn't usually happen. If it has it will have to be properly reset. Other than that the only other thing I can think of is that the pinion gear on top of the drive shaft inside of the transmission has stripped or broke, which would mean a complete tear down of the machine and a trans. rebuild, which is a big job.
I can't think of any thing else that would cause the pulley to spin freely in the agitation direction.
I can't think of any thing else that would cause the pulley to spin freely in the agitation direction.
Well I am in the process of tearing down the whole assembly. I am..."graced" with an agitator that has no screw to remove it.
I've found the "Turban" method of removing the agitator but I cannot find the org. post with instructions on its use. I'm guessing I boil water, pour it on towels or something like that, and wrap it around the agitator for 5 minutes and it should be easier to remove?
I've found the "Turban" method of removing the agitator but I cannot find the org. post with instructions on its use. I'm guessing I boil water, pour it on towels or something like that, and wrap it around the agitator for 5 minutes and it should be easier to remove?
beekeyknee
Well-known member
They say you're supposed to stuff strips of wadded cotton in the agitator vents at the bottom of the column and pour boiling water in it. I did it a different way.
I took a piece of simi-rigid clear plastic aquarium tubing and attached a piece of soft tubing on the end of it, filled the tub a third way with very hot water, put the tubing under the agitator toward the drive shaft as to get to the air bubble under the agitator, sucked on the end of the hose to get the air bubble out, put in a lot of detergent and phosphate, agitated for several minutes and then put on rubber gloves, reached under the agitator, pulled up and rocked a bit and it popped off.
I took a piece of simi-rigid clear plastic aquarium tubing and attached a piece of soft tubing on the end of it, filled the tub a third way with very hot water, put the tubing under the agitator toward the drive shaft as to get to the air bubble under the agitator, sucked on the end of the hose to get the air bubble out, put in a lot of detergent and phosphate, agitated for several minutes and then put on rubber gloves, reached under the agitator, pulled up and rocked a bit and it popped off.
That is a very good suggestion, thank you very much.
The machine has beaten it out of me for the moment, so I'm going to take a break.
To revise my statement on the pulley at the bottom. It still turned but didn't really free wheel. I could turn it without much effort.
Would this be a transmission failure symptom?
I found a diagram of the transmission on these forums that was pretty good. I've rebuilt many mechanical things before as I am a mechanic. The transmission looks very similar to a windshield wiper motor's transmission, and I've fiddled with a few of those in the past.
Thanks again,
Colin
The machine has beaten it out of me for the moment, so I'm going to take a break.
To revise my statement on the pulley at the bottom. It still turned but didn't really free wheel. I could turn it without much effort.
Would this be a transmission failure symptom?
I found a diagram of the transmission on these forums that was pretty good. I've rebuilt many mechanical things before as I am a mechanic. The transmission looks very similar to a windshield wiper motor's transmission, and I've fiddled with a few of those in the past.
Thanks again,
Colin
beekeyknee
Well-known member
Go to the forum archives and look at thread number 28069 and number 22830 and scroll down to the post titled "First Things First". Also check thread number 25520. And if you do decide to totally rebuild the transmission, don't try and take out the agitator shaft. It's almost impossible to get that keeper pin out out of the pinion gear. Just clean it really good with kerosene, getting plenty in that orifice hole to rinse it out.
I submerged all of my trans parts in kerosene in a deep plastic tub. Submerge the top plate of the trans in the kerosene, turn the agitator drive shaft while submerged, then lift it out and let the orifice drain and repeat over and over. Use a good brush that doesn't shed to clean the parts and use neoprene gloves for your hands. Scrape off all the old trans gasket with a putty knife.
I found the parts I needed to be: Stem seal and boot kit(if your Stem seal has been on for 35 years you might have to cut it off with a Cut-Off Wheel Kit w/ mandrel and arbors. This can be tricky. Don't cut into your transmission neck or hit your porcelain wash basket), Agitator drive shaft seal, Transmission gasket, Upper O-ring, Lower O-ring, probably a new nylon Pinion Gear, Splined washer, Lug washer, Spring/Glide kit for motor carriage, Poly-Lube (I was lucky enough to find a 3 oz jar of Maycor Poly-Lube Silicone Grease at Direct Maytag), and Transmission Gear Oil. If you want to use Maytag Transmission Oil and can find it, go ahead. I used Sta-Lube Multi-Purpose Hypoid SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4 from NAPA Auto Parts. You need to use a GL-4 gear oil or lower for use on bronze phosphor parts. The Splined washer is this type of metal and a GL-5 oil might eat it up. NAPA was the only place I could find this type of gear oil. It was like $35.00, but there's enough to do two transmissions, I believe. They also have NAPA Premium Performance Multi-Purpose Wheel Bearing and Chassis Grease for around $3.50 a tub. It's a light creamy honey brown color. The same type of grease FSP is putting in their rubber gasket parts, I believe. I like it much better than that blue grease.
You may also need some rubber injector parts. I soak rubber parts in a covered pot in a gallon of generic Armor All from NAPA in a 150-200 degree oven over night and it brings them right back to life if they're not to far gone. The tub cover gasket is usually reusable but has to be cleaned thoroughly and sometimes heated slightly to remove creases or impressions. The cooking in Armor All does this too.
Ace Hardware is your friend. I found the O-rings there for around $1.50 a piece. Much better than the $17.00 Direct Maytag wanted for them. Don't know the size yet. It will be in my next Thread. You will need a pick set to remove the O-ring from the transmission tube. You can find a nice Craftsman set at Sears or Ace.
This is no small job and can take up to several months, depending on how hard you work and if you have an indoor work shop.
A specialized tool you will need will be a spanner wrench. A brake package tool is nice too, but you can get by without it. I was lucky. I found a generic spanner wrench for $10.00 and a Maytag brake package tool for $10.00.
It's too bad you needed this information now. I'll be posting the Thread of my rebuild in the next few weeks. It will have the details you need with pictures and hopefully a video.
A membership to AW.org will get you more attention. It's a small price to pay. [this post was last edited: 12/3/2011-04:58]
I submerged all of my trans parts in kerosene in a deep plastic tub. Submerge the top plate of the trans in the kerosene, turn the agitator drive shaft while submerged, then lift it out and let the orifice drain and repeat over and over. Use a good brush that doesn't shed to clean the parts and use neoprene gloves for your hands. Scrape off all the old trans gasket with a putty knife.
I found the parts I needed to be: Stem seal and boot kit(if your Stem seal has been on for 35 years you might have to cut it off with a Cut-Off Wheel Kit w/ mandrel and arbors. This can be tricky. Don't cut into your transmission neck or hit your porcelain wash basket), Agitator drive shaft seal, Transmission gasket, Upper O-ring, Lower O-ring, probably a new nylon Pinion Gear, Splined washer, Lug washer, Spring/Glide kit for motor carriage, Poly-Lube (I was lucky enough to find a 3 oz jar of Maycor Poly-Lube Silicone Grease at Direct Maytag), and Transmission Gear Oil. If you want to use Maytag Transmission Oil and can find it, go ahead. I used Sta-Lube Multi-Purpose Hypoid SAE 85W90 Gear Oil API/GL-4 from NAPA Auto Parts. You need to use a GL-4 gear oil or lower for use on bronze phosphor parts. The Splined washer is this type of metal and a GL-5 oil might eat it up. NAPA was the only place I could find this type of gear oil. It was like $35.00, but there's enough to do two transmissions, I believe. They also have NAPA Premium Performance Multi-Purpose Wheel Bearing and Chassis Grease for around $3.50 a tub. It's a light creamy honey brown color. The same type of grease FSP is putting in their rubber gasket parts, I believe. I like it much better than that blue grease.
You may also need some rubber injector parts. I soak rubber parts in a covered pot in a gallon of generic Armor All from NAPA in a 150-200 degree oven over night and it brings them right back to life if they're not to far gone. The tub cover gasket is usually reusable but has to be cleaned thoroughly and sometimes heated slightly to remove creases or impressions. The cooking in Armor All does this too.
Ace Hardware is your friend. I found the O-rings there for around $1.50 a piece. Much better than the $17.00 Direct Maytag wanted for them. Don't know the size yet. It will be in my next Thread. You will need a pick set to remove the O-ring from the transmission tube. You can find a nice Craftsman set at Sears or Ace.
This is no small job and can take up to several months, depending on how hard you work and if you have an indoor work shop.
A specialized tool you will need will be a spanner wrench. A brake package tool is nice too, but you can get by without it. I was lucky. I found a generic spanner wrench for $10.00 and a Maytag brake package tool for $10.00.
It's too bad you needed this information now. I'll be posting the Thread of my rebuild in the next few weeks. It will have the details you need with pictures and hopefully a video.
A membership to AW.org will get you more attention. It's a small price to pay. [this post was last edited: 12/3/2011-04:58]
MaytagA710
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 422
Hey Brian I cannot wait to see the rebuild photos! I am going to overhaul the transmission in the 712 over the summer next year.
Agitator is out and I just received my spanner nut wrench in the mail. I let the spanner nut soak in PB Blaster for about four days (while I waited for the tool in the mail) and it won't budge one bit!
There is a good bit of gunk built up around the nut, I'm not sure if this is the problem.
I've seen a few people cut off the nuts, what should I be mindful about with this and do you advise it?
There is a good bit of gunk built up around the nut, I'm not sure if this is the problem.
I've seen a few people cut off the nuts, what should I be mindful about with this and do you advise it?
MT BASKET LOCK RING
Don't waste your time just crack it off, a new one comes with the seal kit anyway.
Don't waste your time just crack it off, a new one comes with the seal kit anyway.
Took an angle grinder to the ring, she is off. The agitator shaft came completely out . I'm guessing this is the reason the machine won't agitate 
Inner tub is removed and I am now trying to take the mount stem off. The whole assembly turns when I beat on it.
Tips? I did remove the set screw.
Inner tub is removed and I am now trying to take the mount stem off. The whole assembly turns when I beat on it.
Tips? I did remove the set screw.
beekeyknee
Well-known member
Stem Mount
You'll probably have to cut it off too. I used a Forney Cut-Off Wheel Kit, 3" diameter w/mandrel and arbors. Use a 3/8" variable speed reversible drill, tight fitting gloves and eye protection. Can't remember which direction I had the drill turn. I think it was up away from the basket in case the wheel jumped it wouldn't nick the porcelain tub. This is a tricky procedure as you have to cut through the old stem mount but not the trans. neck or agitator shaft. As you can see by my pic I almost cut too far. Keep a firm hold on the drill to keep it under control. I cut into the threaded part of the neck, but I stopped in time as not to cut the drive shaft. If I had cut in to the drive shaft it would have been ruined.I did better on the other side. Good luck.
You'll probably have to cut it off too. I used a Forney Cut-Off Wheel Kit, 3" diameter w/mandrel and arbors. Use a 3/8" variable speed reversible drill, tight fitting gloves and eye protection. Can't remember which direction I had the drill turn. I think it was up away from the basket in case the wheel jumped it wouldn't nick the porcelain tub. This is a tricky procedure as you have to cut through the old stem mount but not the trans. neck or agitator shaft. As you can see by my pic I almost cut too far. Keep a firm hold on the drill to keep it under control. I cut into the threaded part of the neck, but I stopped in time as not to cut the drive shaft. If I had cut in to the drive shaft it would have been ruined.I did better on the other side. Good luck.
beekeyknee
Well-known member
If the agitator shaft came out, the pinion gear must have broke or the keeper pin in the gear sheared off. There will be loose parts in the transmission. Don't put that shaft back in the neck until everything has been cleaned and lubricated. Even then, I've been told, that the machine may be very noisy during agitation if the trans. neck bushings are worn. But who knows you may get lucky. If there were any burrs on the bottom of the a. drive shaft or rough pieces of the keeper pin sticking out, you may have scored the inside of the trans. neck bushings when the shaft pulled out of the trans.
The problem will be getting the remainder of that keeper pin out of the agitator drive shaft with out doing any damage. You have to hold the the agitator shaft still, keep it supported and drive that pin out without doing any damage to the shaft. I tried it for awhile and finally gave up. And I had the benefit of still having the pinion on the end of the shaft for a guide. You have to hold that shaft in a padded vice and the part has to be supported from the underneath side. You'll have to provide a hole for that piece of the keeper pin to drop into when it's pushed out. You'll need a 1/4 inch punch to fit that hole perfectly. Another possibility would be to very carefully drill out the pin with a bit that is almost the size of the pin, but if you go off center and drill into that shaft it's ruined. A padded vice and a drill press would probably be your best bet to drill the the pin out.
Once you get the old pin out you have the problem of getting the gear back on the shaft by driving the new pin back through the gear and shaft to the right depth. There's a spring washer between the pinion and the bottom of the trans. plate. It should still be inside the trans. It's going to push between the trans. plate and the gear while you put the gear on, line up the holes in the gear and the shaft while simultaneously trying to drive the pin through. That will be nearly impossible unless you have all the exact parts, equipment and talent. The best bet would be a gear form with a hole for the pin and a hydraulic press. Doubt you'll have that. Even if you get it back together there's no guarantee those bushings aren't worn and you'll have a noisy machine. It may not have been noisy before it broke but it may be by the time you're finished fiddling with it. You could try and take it to a machine shop but they might not be very happy with you by the time it's done and you might not be happy with the price.
I saw the pinion on line a couple of nights ago and I know the pin is still available. I bought one this summer from Direct Maytag. The label on the bag says Part 210183. Desc. Groov-Pin-. You might be better off with a donor transmission or donor transmission top with drive shaft and pinion gear in place.
Sorry I don't have any better news.
The problem will be getting the remainder of that keeper pin out of the agitator drive shaft with out doing any damage. You have to hold the the agitator shaft still, keep it supported and drive that pin out without doing any damage to the shaft. I tried it for awhile and finally gave up. And I had the benefit of still having the pinion on the end of the shaft for a guide. You have to hold that shaft in a padded vice and the part has to be supported from the underneath side. You'll have to provide a hole for that piece of the keeper pin to drop into when it's pushed out. You'll need a 1/4 inch punch to fit that hole perfectly. Another possibility would be to very carefully drill out the pin with a bit that is almost the size of the pin, but if you go off center and drill into that shaft it's ruined. A padded vice and a drill press would probably be your best bet to drill the the pin out.
Once you get the old pin out you have the problem of getting the gear back on the shaft by driving the new pin back through the gear and shaft to the right depth. There's a spring washer between the pinion and the bottom of the trans. plate. It should still be inside the trans. It's going to push between the trans. plate and the gear while you put the gear on, line up the holes in the gear and the shaft while simultaneously trying to drive the pin through. That will be nearly impossible unless you have all the exact parts, equipment and talent. The best bet would be a gear form with a hole for the pin and a hydraulic press. Doubt you'll have that. Even if you get it back together there's no guarantee those bushings aren't worn and you'll have a noisy machine. It may not have been noisy before it broke but it may be by the time you're finished fiddling with it. You could try and take it to a machine shop but they might not be very happy with you by the time it's done and you might not be happy with the price.
I saw the pinion on line a couple of nights ago and I know the pin is still available. I bought one this summer from Direct Maytag. The label on the bag says Part 210183. Desc. Groov-Pin-. You might be better off with a donor transmission or donor transmission top with drive shaft and pinion gear in place.
Sorry I don't have any better news.
There were not any pieces of the keeper pin sticking out of the agitator shaft. It seems like it broke very cleanly on either side.
I do have a hydraulic press and a good friend who runs a machine shop locally that could help me out with all of this.
I am taking the transmission assembly out tonight for inspection and beginning of cleaning.
Thank you again!
I do have a hydraulic press and a good friend who runs a machine shop locally that could help me out with all of this.
I am taking the transmission assembly out tonight for inspection and beginning of cleaning.
Thank you again!
Transmission is out and disassembled. Buying Brake Clean in the morning to clean it and disassemble with my snap-ring pliers.
Ordering all the rebuild parts tonight and contacting my media-blasting friends to see if they can do a part as big as the base plate.
Ordering all the rebuild parts tonight and contacting my media-blasting friends to see if they can do a part as big as the base plate.
Transmission fully disassembled and sent to the machine shop to be cleaned. I figured a few bucks to have them deal with the oily mess is better than me messing up the sinks at home any more than they already are.
I was able to remove the piece of the pin from the gear connecting to the agitator shaft but not from the shaft itself.
I also gave the shaft to the machine shop to try and give it a shot. I take a good bit of my car parts to this shop so they usually treat me right.
I'll be sure to post some pictures of the rebuild when I get everything back!
I was able to remove the piece of the pin from the gear connecting to the agitator shaft but not from the shaft itself.
I also gave the shaft to the machine shop to try and give it a shot. I take a good bit of my car parts to this shop so they usually treat me right.
I'll be sure to post some pictures of the rebuild when I get everything back!
Everything is disassembled.
Cleaning the baseplate now for painting tomorrow.
The rest of the transmission rebuild parts come tomorrow or Saturday. Does anyone want any pictures of the transmission rebuild or the rebuild in general?
Cleaning the baseplate now for painting tomorrow.
The rest of the transmission rebuild parts come tomorrow or Saturday. Does anyone want any pictures of the transmission rebuild or the rebuild in general?
beekeyknee
Well-known member
If you want to. I'm interested in what it sounds like when it's done.
MT AGITATOR SHAFT
The agitator shaft is just plated steel, it is not like the tub bearings that are bronze and oil impregnated. If the shaft is badly worn [ and it probably is ] you really need a new one and new bearings in the transmission cover. When this would happen to MT washers we never fixed this part as MT sold the complete trans cover with the shaft and bearings installed, so we would just install a new cover, oil and gasket and you were good to go for another 20 years. Nowadays when I run into this problem we just use a cover assembly that is in good condition or even a complete used transmission . Other than finding good used parts you will have to have the shaft turned down and have over sized bearings made and installed. The bad thing is the shaft has lost its corrosion resistant plating so if any moisture ever gets in it wouldn't last long.
If I were rebuilding this machine for everyday use I would update it to the Orbital Transmission and use the newer Load Sensor agitator, these parts are still avilalible. This change was the best thing MT ever did to the helical drive washers, it allows you to wash larger loads and greatly reduces the clothing ware and possible damage that the original Powerfin agitator can cause if the machine is not used very carefully.
The agitator shaft is just plated steel, it is not like the tub bearings that are bronze and oil impregnated. If the shaft is badly worn [ and it probably is ] you really need a new one and new bearings in the transmission cover. When this would happen to MT washers we never fixed this part as MT sold the complete trans cover with the shaft and bearings installed, so we would just install a new cover, oil and gasket and you were good to go for another 20 years. Nowadays when I run into this problem we just use a cover assembly that is in good condition or even a complete used transmission . Other than finding good used parts you will have to have the shaft turned down and have over sized bearings made and installed. The bad thing is the shaft has lost its corrosion resistant plating so if any moisture ever gets in it wouldn't last long.
If I were rebuilding this machine for everyday use I would update it to the Orbital Transmission and use the newer Load Sensor agitator, these parts are still avilalible. This change was the best thing MT ever did to the helical drive washers, it allows you to wash larger loads and greatly reduces the clothing ware and possible damage that the original Powerfin agitator can cause if the machine is not used very carefully.
load sensor agitator
Why was it called a load sensor agitator? Did it actually sense the load or something?
Why was it called a load sensor agitator? Did it actually sense the load or something?
LOAD SENSOR AGITATOR
This is MTs version of the popular auger style agitator that WP invented and KM started using on thier machines in the late 1970s. This coupled with the smaller fins and faster shorter stroke made for a much more satisfactory agitation and turnover in the tall narrow tub that your MT has.
This is MTs version of the popular auger style agitator that WP invented and KM started using on thier machines in the late 1970s. This coupled with the smaller fins and faster shorter stroke made for a much more satisfactory agitation and turnover in the tall narrow tub that your MT has.
Glad it is working well! I would throw in with Combo52. A new transmission and agitator would go right in. I attended a Maytag service seminar in the 90s, and they demonstrated how to put one in an older machine. I know that it is not origional, but it sure saves a lot of work. However, there is a lot to be said about keeping a machine origional. Did you take any pictures during the repairs? What about the finished machine?
The cost for the rebuild wasn't that much, and was actually cheaper than a new transmission all together. The washer has been my familys DD since the day we bought it and I've never had a complaint about its operation untill it started to rock around and not agitate.
I have some before and after pictures but nothing during the repair. The transmission rebuild was so straight forward I felt that it was rather pointless to document it.
I am still having water leaks and I cannot identify the source. I resat the top tub seal but no dice.
The water usually starts leaking near the end of the agitation cyles and dribbles off of the transmission onto the base plate.
I am letting the machine dry out before I try and diagnose the leak any further.
Any suggestions or ideas?
I have some before and after pictures but nothing during the repair. The transmission rebuild was so straight forward I felt that it was rather pointless to document it.
I am still having water leaks and I cannot identify the source. I resat the top tub seal but no dice.
The water usually starts leaking near the end of the agitation cyles and dribbles off of the transmission onto the base plate.
I am letting the machine dry out before I try and diagnose the leak any further.
Any suggestions or ideas?
beekeyknee
Well-known member
Leak
If water is coming out of the slots in the tub bearing, suspect a boot seal leak. If water is coming out underneath the bearing sleeve and straight down on the transmission cover, suspect a center shaft seal leak or triple lip seal leak on top of the stem mount. They're not as good as the old kind. I've heard that if the agitator shaft is very worn or not smooth where the lip seal rides on the agitator shaft that a leak can happen there. Look a MaytagA710's first picture. See where the groove is in the agitator shaft where the shaft seal used to ride?
If water is coming out of the slots in the tub bearing, suspect a boot seal leak. If water is coming out underneath the bearing sleeve and straight down on the transmission cover, suspect a center shaft seal leak or triple lip seal leak on top of the stem mount. They're not as good as the old kind. I've heard that if the agitator shaft is very worn or not smooth where the lip seal rides on the agitator shaft that a leak can happen there. Look a MaytagA710's first picture. See where the groove is in the agitator shaft where the shaft seal used to ride?
It is leaking from underneath the bearing sleeve.
In thread #25520 the poster describes using part 0A4298 (the org. shaft seal) to supplement the triple lipped stem for a good seal.
I don't see how to use this part in conjunction with the new seal. Would I remove part of the seal that came with the new mounting stem?
In thread #25520 the poster describes using part 0A4298 (the org. shaft seal) to supplement the triple lipped stem for a good seal.
I don't see how to use this part in conjunction with the new seal. Would I remove part of the seal that came with the new mounting stem?
Similar threads
