198? Miele W5510 415volt commercial front loader on ebay

[electroslumber]

I saw this three phase Miele on Ebay. It's in Victoria and the start is a not unreasonable $500. Made in West Germany. It looks like a commercial machine that has had very little use OR one that has not been abused. I think it would be a lot of fun to own and use! Is there someone out there who would be interested in buying themselves a genuine West German Miele for Christmas perhaps? OK, It's not a FLUID DRIVE, but it looks like the ultimate foreign front loader!

 

[3beltwesty]

please post a link

please post a link

 

[brisnat81]

Here you go

Pardon our interruption...

 

[mielerod69]

They are also selling the matching 10kg dryer

Pardon our interruption...

 

[favorit]

That is a genuine CORDES

Miele in 1986 purchased Cordes plants in Oelde. Since then commercial laundry appliances are made in Oelde, residential ones are made in Guetersloh. This is a Cordes washer

Miele – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

 

[favorit]

and this is a Miele WS 5514

that still has the Cordes design like the WS 5510 you posted

 

[favorit]

Cordes CW 3061 fascia

--

 

[favorit]

and this is a miele .... but not a washer

any clue ?? [farmers please shut up ! ;-)) ]

 

[electroslumber]

Dear Brisnat81, thanks for providing the link, I was still asleep and haven't mastered posting links or loading photos directly from my camera. Hopefully someone in Australia will buy the Miele/Cordes and have an awesome twin set for Christmas!

 

[jetcone]

wow 415 volts to run that?

Is that what 3 phase is in Austrailia? Or do you have two 3 phases, 220V and 415V?

Nice machine, especially at 10kgs a load!!
I wonder how fast it spins?

 

[electroslumber]

three phase in Australia

Dear jetcone, as far as I know, in Australia, we generally have single phase 240 volts and three phase 415 volts. Apparently three phase power in homes in the United States is almost non existant, don't know why. Single phase motors above 10hp (7500watts) are rare anywhere. For some reason it is not uncommon to see three phase power in Australia, the benefits are generally much higher starting torque and higher efficiency overall, reducing the need for a capacitor. I am curious as to whether the WS 5510 Miele spins at maximum rpm the moment you shut the door, I'm currently trying to find its maximum spin speed, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2500+ on three phase! Regards from Australia, Paul

 

[tolivac]

Only three phase power for resedences in the US would be multifamily buildings-apartments and condos.Some VERY large single family homes have three phase to run the larger AC units.In the US I have seen single phase motors up to 25Hp-for crop dryer blowers on very rural farms that don't have three phase.These motors are cap start and run.Wished three phase was more available for single homes-honestly it would be more efficient for larger motors used in the household.

 

[3beltwesty]

3 phase in USA houses is about non existant

In the USA 3 Phase is in almost no houses, unless one has a giant totally custom house or one wants a fancy setup for 3 phase milling machine.

There is one house a block from me that has 3 phase. The guy who owned that house back in 1968 worked for the local power company. There is small underground 3 HP sewer lift station motor on his property's lotline. He designed the layout of the lines when the neighborhood was designed; since he worked for the power company. Thus there is a 50 KVa transformer on the pole; and a real dinky 5KVa transformer that provides the 3 Phase's other leg. With a tiny load; one often has just two transformers. There are 3 Hot 19.2 KV lines that enter the neighborhood a mile away. Then they peel off two of them and they go to the lift station and guys house to. The guy had a machine shop in his back yard with 3 Phase.

In a USA McDonalds or small Laundromat; many times the service is 120V/208V in Y. They run the AC's off of 208V 3 Phase and the 120 volts off of 120 volts line to neutral. The dryers often are restrung for 208 Volts. Most commerical laundromats use gas, thus this restringing is not so common.

In a big Office Depot or Home Depot (building supply) store; in the USA the feed is many times 480 Volts 3 Phase; 277 Volts line to Neutral. They run the big AC units off of 480 volts 3 phase. The lighting is often run on 277 Volts line to neutral. To run the "normal" 120 volts stuff they have dry inside step down transformers, to run the cash registers and computers.

In my whole lifetime I have really only seen or heard of 2 or 3 houses that actually have 3 phase AC power in the USA. Many folks like me just run a phase convertor, mine has a 5HP 3 phase motor that is started on single phase; that provides the missing leg to run another 3 phase motor.

My business has a 3 Phase service, but it is just for 1 AC unit. It is an odd settup, with 2 hots that are 120 volts to ground, and the wildcat/stinger hot phase at 208Volts to ground. One has 240 Volts between each hot leg. It is a Delta 3 Phase; where the neutral is between 2 legs and for lighting. The neutral is not used normally with a 3 phase device with this settup.

At my USA house, I am a ultra rare case where I do have 3 phase secondary on the transformer's pole that is 200 feet. This is because the 3 phase lift station and old Power CO guy's wood shop is there. To actually get a new 3 phase entrance at my house would still be a boatload of money. The power Co would probably up the little 5KVa to 15Kva that is paired to the big 50Kva. Then they would have to add 200 to 250 feet of secondary for the extra phase to my house. They I would have to get a new gooseneck and 3 phase service box; and permits. This would be probably 3 to 6 grand or more.

Small Apartments in the USA are often 120 volt single phase 208 Volts 3 phase in Y. Or "houses" that are really served by one meter like an old folks village, where a "house" might be really 4 separate apartments under one roof.

 

[3beltwesty]

helicopter pad

Having a real 3 phase service on a single family house in the USA is rarer than having ones one airstrip or helicopter landing pad.

A well known local doctor has a helicopter pad in his backyard, but just single phase AC service.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

not to get off topic on this thread but...
I sure wish I had 3 phase service to my house. I'm about 250FT from the main road, to which the pole has 3 pole pigs on it that look to be tied together, A supply line from these go across that street and underground, which my guess it that it feeds the local businesses. On that side of the street there is a factory that manufactures nails, and what used to be a lumber mill, that has been converted to what look like a repo business.

I have 3 phase that I make with a rotary phase converter(which sucks) to run my commercial FLs in the house. There are several things that I have to do to my 3 phase supply when it comes out of the converter, on order for it to be good enough for the machines. I would say that this method uses more electricity then having a dedicated 3 phase supply from the utility company.

My converter uses 5 HP 3 phase motor for 3rd leg, and some other things, line reactors and another 3 phase motor that I run with the FL machines to balance the legs more. Since one of my machines uses a VFD system its supply has to be a little better. So what I get in the end is 228V(1,2), 230V(2,3), 236V(1,3) Delta configuration. It's not perfect, but the best that I can get with what I have and the space, without spending a significant amount of money.

 

[brisnat81]

easily available

In Australia, most houses have a maxium supply of 240v single phase with 80amps. If you need more than 80amps, then you get Three Phase with 240v from Phase to Neutral and 415V phase to phase.
​
​I'm blown away when I read about US houses with 200amp single phase panels, over here you'd just have 3 x 80amps lines for a total 240amps.
​
​95% of houses here have 4 wire's running past the door on the power poles, so its just a matter of whether you have Single or 3 Phase connected. The other advantage of 240v is that the transformers are about every 500m instead of at every house.

 

[3beltwesty]

Here in the USA houses started with 30amp 110 volt service back 100 years ago; then it went to 60 amp.



240 volts was not even required on a new house until about 1947; many of these were 240 volts and 60 amp service. 100 amps with 240 volts was more common with a 1960's house. The house I am in was built about 1970 has a 240 volt service of 200 amps; and most neighbors had 100 amps.







Today most all houses start with a 200 amp 240 volt service here. Building codes for new house today will not allow less than this; unless one has a hut. One cannot legally use a smaller service; unless one has few circuits like a tiny building or roadside sign.



Most neighborhoods in the USA have single transformers that feed a few houses. There may or may not be "on the pole" more than 1 high kilo voltage leg.



Typically in busy places on a main road the "feeder" has all 3 hot many kilovolt legs; plus one neutral if in Y, which is typical. Then when there are a few houses off a side street; they run just say "leg B" down the side street, with the neutral to a single transformer. Thus the average US *home* consumer has just *one* transformer that feeds the house, there are no others for a 3 phase settup. The next side street peels off "leg C" the next side street leg A.



Thus a US typical home to be run on 3 phase requires 1 or 2 more transformers on the pole; and there is often just 1 high kilovolt leg there too.

The only stuff a normal US home runs with 240 volts if a larger AC unit above 1.5 tons, the kitchen stove, the dryer, maybe strip heat or a big electric water heater.

In many places where houses are close; one transformer say about 35 to 50 KVa feeds about 3 to 5 houses. When Mr Jones next door 5 ton AC unit starts; it pulls say 150 amps at start; maybe 30 when running. Everybodys lights on that transformer dim a tad for fraction of a second.

The average US house really has no need for 3 Phase power, thus the layout of the poles, transformers and feeders are done for cost reasons. To add 3 phase would double the amount of wire and transformers

 

[tolivac]

In most areas--the three phase primary MV feeders are ALREADY there-so three phase feeds to each building or home is not that much of a problem.A former employee who retired from where I work has his own machine shop-he has two machines-an engine lathe and a milling machine-surplus and they both have three phase motors-He told me for a long time they sat in the garage-getting three phase to his house was expensive-but low and behind what did he encounter at a pawn shop of all places---A rotary phase convertor-all complete-he bought it for only 10 bucks and wiring his machines to it-now they work fine.His hobby is rebuilding various tractor engines.He has a small collection of tractors.For many of those he has to make his own parts.Some areas where I am there are no 3 ph primary feeders-just single and two phase-so you have to use the open delta "Scott" transformer system to get open delta 220-240V.It uses two single phase transformers-usually pole pigs.the "dump" out here has it-to run the compactor motor.the motor is 15hp.In my neighborhood-URD system is used-75-100Kva transformers-usually 3-4 houses per transformer.
For the open delta Scott three pahse-quality of the power is about what you get from a convertor-its fine for motors-but broadcast transmitters that need three phase is another issue.You have to make sure you connect filament supplies,LV supplies to the 2 HOT legs-NOT the "Wild wire"I have encountered a couple of stations where they run the transmitter from a convertor-FM xmitters run on them better than AM transmitters.the convertor makes the strangest "talking" noises when you run the AM xmitter from it.It works but not the best.Most transmitter warrantees are VOIDED by the manufacturer if you run the transmitter from a Scott supply or convertor-these stations have to live with that-the transmitter location may not have ANY access to 3 Ph power at all.Just one single ph med voltage feeder line.

 

[launderess]

IIRC

Some modern high end front loaders (Miele?) have built in phase converters.

Three phase motors are far more durable and powerful than single, so it would be in an effort to get around washers being marketed in areas where anything besides single phase is not common.

FWIU three phase motors are much more durable and powerful than single phase. This is one of the reasons commercial/laundromats seldom (aside from some special product lines) have the later. It is also the reason why say a Wascomat 50lb washer can spin a full capacity wet load as if it were a sack of feathers. More over it can do so over and over again, day in and day out.