1997 Cadillac Seville SLS...

[stricklybojack]

.
Going to go check this out tomorrow.
60k miles, always garaged, southern California car, 2 old lady owners...the son is selling after his mom passed away. The price seems good, but the car is almost 20 years old.
I tend to European cars but this one speaks to me, sleeper cool with a good motor*...the Northstar v8.
Thoughts? I read the head gaskets can leak, which is a major job on a 32 valve car.
Basically great cars until they're not, and then they get expensive...like so many other things I guess.

*Say some

 

[askolover]

We've had three Northstars and we will never own another one! Look underneath, if it isn't blowing oil yet it will be soon enough. All of ours did and everyone I've talked to who's had one said theirs did too. I've been told Northstars need to be driven....I mean, drive it like you stole it...to keep everything cleaned out. We never had a head gasket problem because as soon as they started blowing oil we got rid of them. Our last one was a 2007 DTS with the higher output Northstar. The dealership claimed that GM had redesigned the engine and the case half seal leaks were no longer a problem and also that the HP version was even better than the standard version. True, it would run like a scalded dog, but it also started blowing oil. The last time I crawled under it to change the oil and I saw the entire undercarriage covered, I told Tony it had to go and NEVER again! A couple weeks later it was traded in for a new Lincoln MKS and we never looked back. If you ever need to replace the starter on a Northstar, you will pay dearly unless you do it yourself...the starter is located "in the valley" underneath the intake manifold...which has to be removed along with the fuel injection lines to reach the starter. I never had to replace one, but I know where it's located.

Don't get me wrong, I loved all of our Cadillacs. They rode and drove wonderfully. I know out of all the many thousands of Northstars GM built over the course of twenty years, not all are bad. Just my personal experiences.
YMMV [this post was last edited: 7/6/2016-02:44]

Northstar Performance - Cadillac Head Studs, Cadillac Head Gasket Repair, Northstar Engine Repair

Cadillac Northstar Engine Head Gasket Repair

www.carrollcustomcadillac.com

 

[lordkenmore]

>Basically great cars until they're not, and then they get expensive...like so many other things I guess.

To be fair, other cars are like this...

Years back, I had a VW Fox, and I commented to someone who knew VWs that there were aspects that impressed me giving that it was an economy car (the bottom of the line model new). He commented something like: "They are economy cars...until you have problems with fuel injection. At that point, it ceases to be an economy car."

The car was wrecked when someone crashed into it, so I never had to deal with a fuel injection problem.

 

[vacerator]

Robert,

That's a nice clean car! 60,000 is very low mileage.
Because the body is rust free, as most California cars, it would be worth installing a newer Northstar V8 with the longer cylinder head bolts. They came along in about 2002 or '03.
However, if you treat it gently, and do not allow it to ever overheat, it may be just fine for quite a while. My friend owns a 1998 DeVille with 165,000 miles on it. It did leak a bit of oil from the oil pan, but very little. He put some type of leak stop in at the last oil change, and it helped a lot. These engines hold 7 quarts of oil. He had the transaxle rebuilt a few years ago at about 145,000 miles. It was expensive, almost three grand, but he says worth it. You may not have to do that, because two older women likely never had heavy feet. Have the trans. fluid changed if it has not been done at 50,000 miles.
I would expect a rebuilt, or crate engine to cost about $1,500 plus labor.
A new Cadillac cost how much again? Almost 60 grand for a V6 XTS, more for the CT6, and still more for a V8 CTS-V.
Have a reputable mechanic look it over if you please. Check the suspension bushings for dry rot or wear. Stabilizer bar bushing, control arm bushings, and tie rod ends, both inner, and outer. Not terribly expensive to replace if needed.
Make certain the electrics all work.
Parts in cars back then in general were of better quality than new ones of today.

 

[vacerator]

Also Robert,

that car will perform with 30 M.P.G. highway at 65 m.p.h. Around 20 mpg city.
It's also time for a coolant change if it's not been done.
Never add green coolant to the red coolant it has in it. They do not mix, and will chemically react and corrode the cooling pump, and radiator, and heater core possibly.
You should be able to monitor coolant temp. by toggling the instrument panel gauge cluster so it displays it. Under or at 210 f. is fine.
Synthetic oil will run a bit hotter.

 

[revvinkevin]

My best friend had a pearl white '95 STS he bought used from his wife's boss. He liked the car and the power, but gas mileage wasn't great as you'd expect.

The car eventually ended up having an issue with the brakes, occasionally and randomly requiring a lot more effort than normal to stop the car. Unfortunately even though many things were tried, we were never able to get this brake issue corrected. Other things started going wrong and costing him $$$ to repair. Since it had become an "extra car" that was rarely being driven (partially due to the brake issue), he decided to get rid of it through California's "Cash for Clunkers" Program a few years ago.

Kevin

 

[gusherb]

My great uncle has a '99 DeVille with the NorthStar. Really a pleasant powertrain when they work, the car is like driving a sofa. Only thing I really hated was the steering, couldn't tell which way I was going it was so numb. His has 63,000 miles the last time I saw it last summer and he hasn't had a single issue with the car yet. The A/C is weaker then I'd like, my money goes on the compressor is getting weaker, though he does live in West central Texas, but our car still cooled better then it.
I asked him given the cars reputation for having head gasket and other engine issues, what will he do when it starts giving him trouble. He said he'd just dump it, so I guess he's not that attached to it.

 

[vacerator]

The later 90's DeVilles etc.

have magnasteer. If it is working properly, steering effort is easy at low speed, and becomes stiffer as speed increases.

 

[rickr]

I had a 1998 Deville Concours, and it was the WORST car I have EVER owned. $5200.00 and change for one repair when the head gaskets blew! I had driven Cadillacs since 1982, but after that I was through with them. General Motors JUNK!That car left me stranded more times than I can count! I am now driving a 2013 Volvo C70, and love it. I would run like HELL away from that car, if I were you.....

 

[xraytech]

I had a 2001 DeVille with the NorthStar. I dumped the car in 2009 with only 67000 miles.
The transmission needed replaced at about 63000 miles due to a faulty component. Mine never leaked oil, but it burned about 1 quart every 1000 miles so I always carried oil with me, the rear brake calipers leaked brake fluid like crazy, and once it started running warm and leaking antifreeze I was done with it.
I loved the size and ride of the car, but it was getting pricey to own and I was left stranded a few times.

I went to a Buick Park Avenue after the DeVille, the 3800 v6 performs just as well, trouble free, better gas mileage, and just as big and well equipped.

I'm currently giving Cadillac a second chance with my 2013 XTS luxury. I was looking at a LaCrosse but since they are on same platform and engine I decided I wanted the Cadillac for the style and the few extra options.

I'm a die hard GM person anyways, I've had a few non GM cars but always quickly go back to GM

One thing though, I wouldn't buy anything with the NorthStar again

 

[a440]

Another USA Money Pit!!!

I would pass.

This was one of the early "Northstar" creations. GM tried to get the bugs worked out towards the end of the production of this engine years later, and they never did. So they discontinued the engine and any replacement parts.

I think it is sad.

My Mom had a 2003 Seville with the Northstar V8. Black with red leather. Talk about a sexy car and fun to drive! Amazing! It was a piece of crap however! My Mom was not a hard driver on cars at all. This car ended up being bought back by GM under the "Lemon Law" in Louisiana. The car only had roughly 14,000 miles on it. It was always in the shop for something. I am sure the engine would have been shot before the end, but her car had electrical Gremlins. Too much to list here. So, this was the end end of the Northstar period. I certainly would not invest in one of the early creations.

I will always say that this was very sad for GM. This car was amazing to drive. It was just always at the dealer for some type of Major repair.

 

[panthera]

Every Northstar

we have ever looked at leaked.
Without exception.
I've been told it had to do with poorly designed seals using PTFE, which, as it can not be crosslinked, creeps.
Oh, and something about poor thermal expansion coefficients.
Sheesh.

 

[neptunebob]

Has anyone ever...

Since the Northstar engine is so bad but people like the cars, has anyone ever tried to place a simpler, maybe a Chevrolet engine into them? Or is the Northstar so unique it is not possible?

 

[vacerator]

Bob,

First off to all the downers on the Northstar engine, if it hasn't began leaking or have cylinder head gasket leaks by 130,000 miles, it usually won't. The earlier head bolts were too short. When the engine ran too hot, the heads rise up and they leak. The receptor threads can be re tapped in the block for the longer bolts, and repaired for $3,000.oo. GM implemented the fix on the engine after the 2002 model year.
I suppose it is possible to retro fit a Chevy V8, with a lot of modification to the powertrain cradle, etc. The main issue is the unique specific electrical and computer system.
The Northstar system uses a unique bell housing, so it's transaxle will not bolt to a Chevy V8. The predecessor of the Northstar was the HT 4100, and 4.5 litre, and 4.9 litre aluminum V8's.
They had a 90 degree cylinder bank, and used the older lighter 4 speed automatic shared with the other GM large front drive cars using the 3800 V6.
The Northstar has a 54, or a 60 degree cylinder bank.
Believe me, the Northstar was a big improvement, but not as durable as cast iron.
Planned obsolecense, remember, and the global use of less raw materials in manufacturing.
A successor V8 was designed for the last decade, but the recession put the kabash on it.
The CTSV uses a Chevrolet 90 degree block, as it is rear wheel drive.
The Northstar was developed from the Cadillac racing engine.

 

[revvinkevin]

Engine swap

While it sounds like the majority really liked their cars until things started going wonky, I would guess the vast majority of Cadillac owners wouldn't go through the hassle OR expense of finding a suitable replacement for an engine-ectomy. Since the Northstar was killed off, GM offered no other V8's in a front drive vehicle except the 2006-2009 Chevy Impala SS. Chevy's 5.3L V8 is very low-tech when compared Caddy's Northstar. 1 camshaft, 2 valves per cylinder with push rods and rocker arms. It's an engine design that dates back to the early 50's, but still works well.

Even if someone was willing to spend the $$$$ to do this and they were able to find a donor drive train, you would still have an older GM car that will no doubt start falling apart after the conversion.

A number of years ago I had a 1980 Fleetwood Brougham (rear wheel drive) I bought used with 120K miles, but it had a brand new GM crate engine. Over the next 80K miles the engine always started, never leaked or burned a drop of oil, etc. Aside from the piece of crap transmission (failed 3 times and was about to fail the 4th time when I sold it @ 202K miles), the rest of the car (17 years old) was falling apart around me. Various switches and electrical components were deciding to no longer work. Various pieces of trim, both inside the car and out were either coming loose or falling off. As much as I enjoyed driving this land yacht with all it's luxury, it was time for it to go!

I replaced it with a 1989 Chevy Caprice ex-California Highway Patrol car (purchased directly from the Highway Patrol) and was much happier!

Kevin

P.S... If you are bound and determined, come hell or high water to do an engine swap, ANYTHING is possible!!! This is a 1939 Plymouth pickup truck, that the builders installed a 12.4 Litre (757 Cu In), 7 cylinder radial Jacobs aircraft engine in. YES it does start, run and drive! Very cool![this post was last edited: 7/7/2016-10:51]

12.4 Litre Radial-Engined 1939 Plymouth Pickup

Dropping a 12.4 litre Jacobs R-755 radial engine into a 1939 Plymouth pickup truck seems like the sort of thing you might do if you'd been tasked with the

silodrome.com

 

[cadman]

Robert, if the price is right, I say go for it. As my handle implies, my other hobby is old cars with an emphasis on Cadillacs. I know the Northstar gets a bad rap, but I can think of 4 different N* Cads in my extended family and not a single one has ever leaked oil or had a drivetrain problem. About the worst that could be said was my grandfather's disappointment in MPG going from his 4.9L '95 Deville to his '98. He was used to getting 30+ on the highway...down to 26. -C

 

[jamiel]

A slight edit...there was also a V8 available in the '05 and '06 Bonneville. Believe it was the same as in the Impala.

 

[askolover]

The Bonnie had a Northstar option as did the Buick Lucerne. The Grand Prix GXP had a 5.3L V8 as did the Impala SS. None of our Northstars got above 24-25mpg on the interstate. My Mercedes S500 got 29 on the open road!

 

[ilovewindex]

OVertime i've considerd buying a 94 to 99 Deville, as they are my favorite body style. However with the northstar issues and what i've read, it has scared me away... I will however hunt down a 94 or 95 Deville one day if i can... Maybe... Like the 97 to 99 better looks wise, but, i just get too paranoid