2009 KA SxS Fridge Has a Case of the Hiccups

[rp2813]

Hi all,

 

My beloved fridge has been occasionally cutting out for just a second, then kicking back in.  It will do this several times over a period of several minutes, then it seems to stay running for an extended period.  I don't think the compressor is involved, but since IIRC the compressor often runs on less than full power, maybe there's no lockout happening.  The compressor is so silent that it's hard to tell that it's running, even when I get down in front of the grille (except right after the defrost cycle).  I don't think I could even capture a recording of it.  The condenser fan definitely shuts off, and sometimes there's a "tunnngg" sound like spring loaded contacts are opening or closing when everything stops running.  This sound is very similar to, if not the same as, the sound made at the beginning (and maybe the end) of the defrost cycle.

 

I wonder of the defrost timer could be having issues.  The fridge is tightly shoe-horned into its opening so I haven't pulled it out for further diagnosis.  Does any of this sound familiar to anyone?  I'm leaving town a week from tomorrow and would like to have this sorted out before then.

 

Thanks for any advice and/or suggestions.  If a model number would help, I can dig that up and post the info.

 

Ralph

 

[combo52]

Hi Ralph, I can't even begin to help without a complete model number.

 

John L.

 

[rp2813]

Here you go John:  KSCS25FVMS

 

I just got finished lying down at the front of the fridge because after not running for a while, when it kicked in it didn't take long for the stopping and starting to happen.  It's definitely a switch that's being triggered.  The sound is coming from the right side of the fridge.  I can't see anything other than the wavy condenser under there, and am now fairly certain that the sound is coming from the rear of the fridge, so maybe it's the relay that's going bad.

 

If that's the case, I can pull the fridge out and should be able to replace the relay myself.  Except in KA's parts list for this fridge, there is no "relay" mentioned.  Is it called something else?

 

Let me know if you think I may have zeroed in on the cause of this.

 

BTW, the temperature display inside the fridge has been maintaining 0 for the freezer and 37 for the fridge side (as it always has except during defrost periods) through all of this.

 

[bradfordwhite]

I hope it's something simple like a relay, or a wire loose someplace.

If there is a bald/worn spot on the compressor spindle, you'd need to replace that and that would make it too expensive for most people.

 

[combo52]

KA SXS

Hi Ralph, we need the number after the S in the model #, be sure you are getting this from the model number sticker and not the feature label inside the door.

 

Thanks

 

John L.

 

[DADoES]

 
Ralph, the ending number (two digits) may be 00, 01, 02, or 03.  It's the engineering revision and is relevant to identify the correct service information and parts.

 

[rp2813]

I went to bed wondering if those last two digits were necessary.  When I searched on line, they were missing from most of the hits I got, so figured I had provided enough.  Oh well.

 

The additional digits are 01.

 

I did find a video on line that indicates the culprit could be the "relay and overload," (part# WP12555902) which seems like it could be the source of the problem.  If that's the case, the hardest part of the job will be extracting the fridge from it's cubby hole in order to remove the rear access panel.

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[combo52]

Possible compressor starting problem

Hi Ralph, your refrigerator does not use a start compressor it has an inverter on the compressor instead.

There’s a main relay board down underneath the refrigerator that may be the cause of the problems they can act wonky after a while the main relay board is part number W10185291 it’s technically no longer available but whirlpool has a kit to replace it if you’d like I can get the replacement information for you it’s a fairly expensive kit $250-350.

John L

 

[combo52]

Possible compressor starting problem

Hi Ralph, your refrigerator does not use a start Relay on the compressor it has an inverter on the compressor instead.

There’s a main relay board down underneath the refrigerator that may be the cause of the problems they can act wonky after a while the main relay board is part number W10185291 it’s technically no longer available but whirlpool has a kit to replace it if you’d like I can get the replacement information for you it’s a fairly expensive kit $250-350.

John L

 

[rp2813]

Thanks John.  I have a couple of questions before you go to the trouble of ordering the kit. 

 

Is it an easy job to install the kit, and would a bad relay board create a condition that causes the faint sound I'm hearing of what seems to be spring-loaded contacts opening and closing when the condenser fan (and compressor, I'm pretty sure) stop and start?  Sometimes it will stop and start two or three times over a period of 10 or 15 seconds, other times it runs for so long with no problem that I walk away.  I feel like the longer this situation continues, the worse it is for the sealed system.

 

Again, it's not a lockout issue, where the compressor refuses to run until pressure drops while the condenser fan continues to run interrupted.

 

Also, would it be a good idea to replace the part referenced in this video?  It's cheap and the R&R is easy.  This is assuming my fridge even uses this part.

 

 

[combo52]

Post number nine

Good morning Ralph.

I’ll call you this evening, but again don’t order anything your refrigerator does not have the parts described in this video or anything that looks remotely like them.

John L

 

[rp2813]

Great!  Thanks John!

 

[rp2813]

Well, now that the holidays are history and some minor surgery is behind me, there's time to tell the rest of the story.

 

I ordered a refurbished circuit board from "fixyourboard.com" and did the change-out.  I plugged the fridge in and . . . nothing.  Fortunately I did this during business hours in Texas and was able to reach FYB by phone.  I was advised that it could take up to 45 minutes for the board to come to life based on what the fridge was doing before I installed the new board.  So I hung around and the fridge did eventually kick in, and it took less than 45 minutes.

 

Over the ensuing days, I left the rear panel off as I monitored operation.  The fridge seemed to run erratically even after reaching set temperatures in freezer and fresh food sections.  Sometimes it would run for almost three hours at a time.  Temps never fluctuated from a steady 0 in the freezer and 37 in fresh food.  Off cycles would sometimes last nearly an hour.  This wasn't how it ran with the original board. 

 

One thing I was listening for that never happened was defrosting action.  The drip pan remained dry, but I saw no frost build-up on the coil at bottom rear of the freezer.   I wasn't comfortable about the overall behavior with the new board, so after consulting with my nearby appliance parts guy, I sent my original board to Core Logic's "PartSimple" subsidiary for a rebuild as opposed to sending it to FYB to get a core charge refund.   Meanwhile, the fridge remained pulled out into the middle of the kitchen.

 

It took a little over a week to get my repaired board back.  I did the change-out, plugged the fridge in, and . . . nothing.  Well, I was used to that, but then I checked inside and noticed the temperature read-out wasn't lit up.  I realized that the fridge control had defaulted to "OFF."  I switched it to "ON" and everything fired up.  This was very telling about the first replacement board.  If it had been properly refurbished, it would have defaulted to "OFF" as well.

 

So, things were "off" to a good start.  Later that evening, I heard the tell-tale click that indicated defrost mode was starting.  After a while I heard water trickling for the first time in a couple of weeks.  The next day I saw water in the pan underneath the fridge.   Two days later I checked the pan again and it was almost full to the top with water!  I looked inside the freezer and there was a collection of large chunks of ice that were curve shaped like the evaporator coil surrounding the drain.  Now I felt vindicated.  It took a few more defrosting cycles to get that collection of ice melted and drained, but normal operation had been restored.

 

I sent a picture of the ice accumulation to FYB and advised their board was defective and that I wanted a full refund.  I took the extra step of filing a claim with eBay.  I think FYB was happy to be rid of me, and they sent a postage paid return mail label.  Within a week the $540 I had paid was refunded, so I actually got free use of their faulty board while my own was being repaired properly.  All in all, this repair only cost me $250 to have my original board rebuilt.  Not bad, considering what a new fridge would cost, and my fridge is again running like the dream machine it has been for the past 13 years.

 

I've attached pictures from the process.   In Picture 1, which renders sideways here, you can see a gray plastic box that needs to be pulled out of the way in order to extract the board, which lives behind the flush metal panel held in by a single screw through the lower of the two tabs.   In Picture 2 (sideways again), the metal cover has been detached and clips that hold the board in it have been removed.  In Picture 3, the board has been disconnected and removed.  Picture 4: the ice chunks around the drain.  Picture 5: (Grrr!)  The fridge that was well worth fixing.

 

 

[DADoES]

 
Rotated, I hope you don't mind.  Pics 1 and 4 were initially upside down in photo editing so AW turned them 90° right.  I guessed at which way to turn Pics 2 and 3.

I used FYB in March 2011 for the parents' WP wall oven.  Sent the original in for repair-and-return.  Was $120 (taxable) at that time, with 2-yr warranty.  No difficulty occurred and it's still working today.

 

[rp2813]

Correcting the system's mistakes with sideways pictures is always welcome!  I just wish there was a proven explanation for why it happens here, and seemingly on a random basis since the picture of the ice accumulation was taken with the same phone and attached correctly.

 

I don't know what happened at FYB that made their testing process fail to catch the defect.  PartSimple restored like new operation and I will use them again for any similar needs.  If I can get another 13+ years out of the repaired board, I'll be very pleased indeed.

 

[sudsmaster]

Ralph,

 

Your KA fridge/freezer is not unlike my circa 2000 Kitchenaid Superba SXS fridge/freezer. It's worked great for two decades.

 

[rp2813]

Rich, we had a standard depth KA Superba SxS from the mid 2000's or so in the first house Dave and I bought.  We left it behind when we sold that house as part of the deal.  Our next place required counter depth since it had a tight 1927 kitchen, which you may remember, and since the current house had a horrendous French door Samsung, we brought the KA Architect with us and got rid of the wretched Samsung at our moving sale.

 

I'm still not perfectly clear on which KA models have circuit boards as opposed to the old relay systems, when that all started, and whether KA adopted the use of the boards across their entire model line all at once or what.  I suppose the lack of any clicking sound when the compressor comes to life would be one way to identify a circuit board model.  The only (faint) click I ever hear happens when the defrost timer gets tripped.  When the fridge is situated in its tight cubby hole, all moving parts related to the sealed system are barely audible.  Not so much for the ice maker, but that can't really be helped, particularly considering the bin is in the door.

 

P.S.

When my buddy and I moved the fridge back into position, we didn't push it all the way back.  This left the thickness of the doors protruding in order to get a better grip if and when the fridge needs to be pulled out at some point in the future.  It was an awkward scene between me and my son in law to extract it, with him lying on his stomach pulling from the bottom while I held his feet from sliding.  Definitely worth having the doors stick out appx. 3" more than they were so one person can do it.

 

[sudsmaster]

Ralph,

 

My KA Superba fridge is also in a cubby hole, but I only roll it in about 19 inches. Since the fridge is approximately 31 inches deep, that leaves about a foot extended forward, which is fine by me. In this position it's about an inch further than an adjacent doorway, and the extension of the fridge into the room means I can open the refrigerator door fully, into the doorway. The alternative would be to hire a remodeler to redesign (widen) the doorway, which leads to the dining room, but that just seemed like too much bother, especially for a 1941 structure. And, I reasoned, it gives the mechanical parts more room to breathe.

 

The old fridge here had door(s) that swung away from the doorway, but that wasn't possible with a dual door setup. I've never found the intrusion of the fridge about a foot into the kitchen to be a problem.