2018 Regulations

[Chetlaham]

So I spoke with an appliance tech and he said that in 2018 new regulations kick in which basically mandated front load washers. He was unsure of the exact details, but I am curious what these regulations will be and how they will change things. Any know what they are about?

 

[combo52]

From one tech to another, the one you talked to is FOS, FL washers are not going away. You should ask him to prove what he said.

 

[johnb300m]

No offense to the knowledgeable techs here, but I've been told all sorts of nonsense by techs in the past.

The best were the delivery/install techs who delivered and set up my new oven back in Dec.
They were saying that they're not Home Depot employees, but GE employees, and that the majority of appliance deliveries are done by this GE logistics company.
Apparently GE delivers 3/4 of all the appliances in America, no matter the brand, and no matter the retailer.

They went on to say that the vast majority of GE and LG components are interchangeable and that they share engineering since GE owns a controlling stake in LG Appliances.

They went further to say that GE owns everything, including the little recycling triangle seen on all sorts of plastics, because they invented it in their old plastics division. AND, that GE gets a royalty for every time that little triangle is used.

Now....if any of you need me to conduct deep research into how that's all BS.....well............give me several weeks. LOL.

 

[Chetlaham]

Not that front loads are going away, bur rather top load washers which will basically force people to switch to front load. Ie, deep water wash will not be allowed.

 

[brucelucenta]

Well, I have expected that for a while now.

 

[washman]

Typical goobermint goobledegook nonsense.  As usual

 

[golittlesport]

Fake news!!!

 

[jerrod6]

Our current government administration wants to gut the EPA by slashing their budget, in fact​ all the information regarding clean water and air, and climate change has been removed from the EPA web site, so perhaps there will be no new regulations in 2018.

 

[48bencix]

No consultation with the Mfrs

I read somewhere that during previous regulation discussion periods, the Appliance Manufacturers were consulted. For the 2018 regulations, the regulators decided what the regulations would be and with no consultation or discussion with the Appliance Manufacturers. Appliance regs come from the Department of Energy.

And I think they may become a little less stringent.

 

[wishwash]

Maybe if restrictions ease up, more people will decide to take the efficient route if they feel it is their choice.

 

[gansky1]

Per the published regulations, the energy and water use-factor numbers are going down as of Jan 2018.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...205bd107&mc=true&node=se10.3.430_132&rgn=div8

It's a bit confusing, the Energy Star site lists different (current) standards for clothes washers.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...205bd107&mc=true&node=se10.3.430_132&rgn=div8

Given that the Energy Star program is on the president's "cut list" from the EPA budget, perhaps they've already given up and gone for a drink?

http://e360.yale.edu/features/killing-energy-star-a-popular-program-lands-on-the-trump-hit-list

 

[launderess]

By the time that Pruitt man is finished with the EPA there won't be much regulation left regarding "saving energy".

In four years after the Trump person is gone and a saner more educated person replaces current head of EPA, everything will be put back into place, and how.

 

[tolivac]

I am FOR getting rid of these ridiculous regulations-its going too far.The Energy Star program is slated to be cut---GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!Lets preserve FREEDOM OF CHOICE in appliances,light bulbs,toilets,and so on.

 

[wishwash]

While I do agree with you about freedom of choice, it's quite silly to shred the EPA. Saving energy has good reasons...

 

[tolivac]

I think the EPA has outlived its usefulness-time for it to go!It has KILLED more jobs in this country do to excessive regulations.

 

[tolivac]

The saving of energy should be YOUR choice NOT the gov'ts.

 

[vacerator]

It is yuor choice.

You can either select the energy saving cycles, or the deep water wash cycles.
Or restore or by a reconditioned older machine.
Some Govt. regulations are beneficial to us.
Complete all out environmental, economic, and agricultural irresponsibility had caused not only pollution, but death, illness, and financial crashes.
PBB, DDT, Hexavalent chromium, Lead, mercury, etc. cause cancers and genetic defects. Love Canal, tainted cattle feed, poisonous electrical transformer oil, Flourocarbon ozone depletion etc.
The credit union scandal of the 80's left many farmers bankrupted. The years 2002 through 2009 were also a cataclysm.

 

[washman]

I like phosphates.

 

[jerrod6]

The last time I read the minutes( at least a few years ago)  from the Energy Star meetings I think I remember that many manufacture representatives said that the requirements were already so low that they were having trouble making washers that would actually work.  They said that they had reached their limit and that tighter requirements would result in machines with poor performance.   So I guess the Energy Star folks didn't want to hear any flak this time and didn't invite appliance representatives.

 

Even so, it doesn't mean the appliance manufactures were not right in their assessment.  I think the only reason these new requirements are in existence is because the folks at energy star want to have a job.   

 

I agree that we need standards but at some point enough is enough.  Let the standards of perhaps 2010 or in my case 2003(the year I bought my machine) be good enough.  Even European energy standards are not as strict as what we currently have in the USA..and what we are left with now are washers that don't even use enough water to adequately rinse clothes.

 

While we use to be able to choose a cycle that used more water or heat some manufacturers don't even include these cycles on the machine anymore, for example a true sanitize cycle with water actually hot to do the job, an allergen cycle for people with special problems.  Instead you find a sanitize cycle using 112F water----it's a joke.

 

[speedqueen]

On DDT,

The ban of DDT was the most egregious of all bans on chemicals. DDT was and is perfectly safe. Even if you can make a case that DDT may increase the chances of cancer, the chemicals that replaced it are far worse.

The only reason that DDT was banned was because some far-left busybody wrote a book in which the claim was that DDT caused the reduction and near extinction of Bald Eagles and Peregrine Falcons. The claim was that the chemical reduced the hardness and thickness of the birds eggshell and thus they broke. This is factually inaccurate and no study has been able to reproduce this finding.

Rachel Carson's Silent Spring flew off the shelves and many protested to the government for a ban on the "dangerous chemical." The government not wanting to look like it was supporting big industry at expense of the national bird banned DDT. It was only after that actual research was done. To those who say that since DDT was banned that the population of the birds in question has come back, another ban was put in place at the same time, the ban on hunting large birds of prey. Also, DDT was developed in the 1940s but Eagle and Falcon populations had been falling since the 1910s. They say that "a lie gets around the world twice before the truth gets its shoes on."

People tend to forget that before the community and state wide DDT spraying in the southern US during the 1950s malaria was not just a 3rd world problem, there were yearly epidemics here too. Not only does DDT kill mosquitoes, it also has a repelling ability.

To summarize, a sensational story triumphed over sensibility and research.

 

[johnb300m]

Lead is a critical nutrient that humans need for brain development.
These people in Flint and elsewhere are idiots who just don't understand they're trying to run up nonsensical municipal costs, when their lead pipes are really a health benefit.
And don't get me started on the banning of leaded gasoline!
It was perfectly safe!
How did we become the global superpower we are today with all that lead in the air?
It's all a ruse.

 

[speedqueen]

Don't get me wrong,

I am not opposed to banning dangerous chemicals, it's just that DDT wasn't a dangerous chemical.

 

[48bencix]

Efficiency

I appreciate how efficient many appliances are these days. New Air Conditioning systems are very efficient. LED bulbs are efficient, long lasting and produce very pleasing light. In California our building energy standards utilize lots of insulation and multi pane windows and the new building built are much more energy efficient than the old ones. Many of us have installed additional insulation and dual pane windows to use less energy.

But I do think the appliance standards for washers and possibly dishwashers are going too far for the Appliance Mfrs. to make washers that can wash laundry clean and last without breakdown. A modern TL or FL washer has a computer controlled system that must sense and adjust agitation or tumbling and spin to use so little water. The poor motors are constantly changing speed and unless they are really well built, will not last, same for the computer control board.

So I want to be efficient, but only to a certain point.

 

[tolivac]

Yes,that is what I do for a washer or even a dishwasher--buy an older one from the swap shop.LEDs have some advantages and not so-Life on them is still largely inconsistent-some may last for years-others not so.ALL electric lighting will fade or fail from age-yes including LED-on LED-the DRIVER circuit is more likely to fail than the LED-and to get good light levels from LED-they have to be driven hard or even overdriven-increasing chance of failure.The ban on mercury and probe start MH bulbs is STUPID-these light sources are proven,efficient-more so than incandescent and even some fluorescent.They are reliable,inexpensive,and can give MORE lumens per watt than LED.I signed a petition to reverse the ban on mercury lighting and probe start Metal Halide.Some mercury lamps have burned for 10 yrs in streetlights with only slight dimming or degradation.As we all know energy and water prices vary according to area.In my locale water is the lowest priced utility.So a water saving washer or potty is not going to payback for me.
As pointed out ealier there is an overreaction to lead water supply pipes-when these are used over time-a coating of minerals and calcium covers the insides of the pipe-so the lead is no longer a hazard.If the water has a slight acid content than it could be a hazard.I feel more of the bans are being done by people that are not qualified to make them.They do not have the techcial knowledge to make the decisions.

 

[vacerator]

Um Ok then,

if bottled water were sold with lead, or DDT added, you would drink it?
The Romans used lead for their plumbing. They were all whacko. Lead causes memory and brain disorders, among other things. Lead paint chips anyone? Enjoy.
Richard Jolly, before you were born, it was proven DDT caused many diseases, in fact the canals down near 9 mile road off of Jefferson in St. Clair Shores had to be dredged and remediated of it.
Diazinon is another dangerous pesticide.
I was more gullible also at your age. Swam at Metro beach lately? No, be cause it's been closed for years, with good reason.

 

[iheartmaytag]

Vacerator: One correction please

There was no "Credit Union Scandal"  It was the "Credit Thrifts"  The Savings and Loans. 

 

I worked for Credit Unions during the 80s and 90s, I do not recall a Credit Union Scandal.  NCUA & CUNA are still as strong as they have  always been.

 

[speedqueen]

I respect your opinion but disagree,

Again, I am not defending lead.

*A rather famous professor for 40 years as part of his lectures drank a small amount of DDT and lived until the age of 84 and only died whilst climbing a mountain.

*The Nine Mile canals had to be dredged because of PCBs or PolyChlorinatedBiphenals which are a proven carcinogen and tend to stay in the environment. DDT in studies has been inconclusive or only slightly higher a risk. Just about every chemical currently in use for even household uses such as most cleaning products show about the same results as being mostly inconclusive or possibly carcinogenic.

*Metro Beach is still open with no threat from chemicals, I swam there last year. The real concern for some beach closures is all the Canada Goose droppings and seaweed causing high bacteria levels due to the general water current patterns causing it all to stay in the bay and accumulate. If you haven't heard of the park recently, it is due to the fact that Huron-Clinton Metroparks changed the name to "Lake St. Clair Metropark" a few years ago.

 

[ryanm]

I do hope these regulations do NOT go into affect as others have said here the water regulations have gone too far already. I agree to save resources, but there is a limit. We went from having machines that lasted 12 to 15 years or longer to machines that are going to the dump after a few years because the electronics or design causes them to fail and the cost to fix them far greater than the price of the machine, so now our dumps will fill up more with trash. Machines now can take an hour, two hours or more to complete a cycle thus using more 'energy' in electric as well, so we are saving on water but using more energy in other ways like having machines 'heat' water because the water temperature coming into the machine is less than 'hot'. We now have some 'good' machines that use less water, but if new regulations restrict water even more I can't see how any machine could operate properly and clean. I truly hope it just stays the way it is without any further changes, time will tell. When I watch the videos of older washing machines and how they washed and circulated clothes, there is just no comparison to the way newer machines work today, and this goes for front loaders as well where we used to be able to at least see water, now they look like they are being 'dry cleaned' and those in my family and friends who have them complain their kids clothes just don't come clean no matter what they do. We do need water to clean the clothes no matter what..... period.

 

[johnb300m]

So.....once again, as with anything.....there's a NUANCED approach.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...sk-the-professor-who-ate-it-for-40-years.html

From that article it looks like DDT is generally safe for humans.
But there's evidence of it doing considerable damage over time to ecosystems when used in overabundance in agriculture.
So because humans suck at nuance, and seem to lean towards black and white solutions, it's probably too much to ask using DDT as a positive home pesticide to battle malaria-laced mosquitoes, bed bugs etc. Without it being used and abused, en mass, for agribusiness.

And just because that professor was seemingly 'fine' eating DDT for 40 years. Does not mean it would NOT be damaging to others.
We just celebrated my grandfather's 90th birthday.
He has chain-smoked pipes since he was 16, and he's in practically perfect health.
Does that mean that we should roll back smoking recommendations?
Hey everyone! Smoking is safe! This guy is 90!
"Lucky Strikes are your doctor's preferred cigarettes."

I may be young, but I still remember life in the early 90s on the south side of Chicago when the air would just STINK in the summer.
We used to also have ozone action days when it got really hot and smoggy.
You can also boat/kayak in the Chicago river without coming down with some debilitating disease now.
We don't have that anymore!
Nor do we have the roaring, belching industry we used to have.
But it's not like it's ALL gone.
Many of the industries still in the area are still building things. Ford's Chicago plant is thriving. There's other smaller shops and manufacturers that have opened up over the years, as well as an ultra-green, massive, soap factory for the Method brand.
Industry is still producing, but with cleaner methods and technologies.
Except Koch Industries on the south side. They still do the bare minimum, or nothing at all. And people complain all the time about the dust and pollution from their coal dust piles and such.

In general, increasing efficiency is a net benefit to everyone.
That's the key, everyone.
Are there areas of dispute? Sure, but I'd hope we're smart enough to work through it.
Those who draw a line and refuse to move forward will be left behind.
Bye.

 

[johnb300m]

Wow, and how many more times does it have to be said, that just because a machine is running for 2-3 hours, does NOT mean it's using more energy?
Such a simple, elementary misnomer.
These machines are using more efficient, smaller motors, some with rare earth magnets that deliver much more power and torque for their size and consumption.
Fine....you don't like the time-table.
But many of these are using the same or less electricity than a 60 watt bulb. And doing far more work than putting out just a little light for your living room.