25 year old KDI21A
- Thread starter kkwolfe
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retromania
Well-known member
Those were such well built machines. My cousin had a KitchenAid Superba that was only the second dishwasher that the house ever had. It had such design flare. It was white and the handle had a little pink insert. "Superba" was written in chrome diagnolly across the machine. I noticed in a photo recently shared by a fellow blogger where unfortunately and tragically his business had burned. In that photo was the remains of the dishwasher my cousin had. I believe I also saw it in Robert's kitchen. Don't know if they were all the same model of KitchenAid, but I believe they were all manufactured close together. In 1996 cousin's had the kitchen ripped out and redone. In came all new custom cabinets and state of the art appliances. It was impressive, but I'll never forget that old KitchenAId dishwasher. God I'm sick. Mourning over a dishwasher like it was a person. Oh well!!
Hobart?
I don't know if the 21 series still used a Hobart pump. If so, you can probably order one from Hobart.
Steve, the Hobart expert here will hopefully provide an informational post.
Be sure there's nothing stuck in the filter assembly under the wash arm. The arm lifts off as do the filter components below it.
I don't know if the 21 series still used a Hobart pump. If so, you can probably order one from Hobart.
Steve, the Hobart expert here will hopefully provide an informational post.
Be sure there's nothing stuck in the filter assembly under the wash arm. The arm lifts off as do the filter components below it.
Look underneath and see if there is a leak around the driveshaft. If there is, do not run it until you have it repaired.
I tried to save an older model KA but it turns out the motor was already shot because the leak was allowed to happen.
I think the parts should be still available. the 21 is about the furthest that Sears Parts Direct will go.
Another thing, try to remove all of the wash arm, filters, as far down as you can go, there could be a foreign object, broken glass (be careful) that could be causing the noise.
I tried to save an older model KA but it turns out the motor was already shot because the leak was allowed to happen.
I think the parts should be still available. the 21 is about the furthest that Sears Parts Direct will go.
Another thing, try to remove all of the wash arm, filters, as far down as you can go, there could be a foreign object, broken glass (be careful) that could be causing the noise.
cfz2882
Well-known member
older hobart motors
older hobart motors had replacable ball bearings so if the seal has leaked
and damaged the bearings,the bearings can be replaced after the seal is
repaired(if the motor is the ball bearing version)
older hobart motors had replacable ball bearings so if the seal has leaked
and damaged the bearings,the bearings can be replaced after the seal is
repaired(if the motor is the ball bearing version)
I don't think this machine is old enough to have replaceable bearings.
I'm also not sure if it can be assumed that since the ID tag indicates the machine was made by Hobart, if the pump was still a Hobart product or if Emerson was making them by the time the 21 series was being produced.
Steve will know for sure, and should be able to provide a source for replacement parts.
I'm also not sure if it can be assumed that since the ID tag indicates the machine was made by Hobart, if the pump was still a Hobart product or if Emerson was making them by the time the 21 series was being produced.
Steve will know for sure, and should be able to provide a source for replacement parts.
stevet
Well-known member
Oh the Pressure!
The 21 series machines were built originally with the Hobart built reversing motors which had replaceable bearings. It is not hard to replace them as they are mounted to the motor rotor and come out with the rotor when you disassemble the motor. Even dis-assembly is easy. The only problem may be the cooling fan located outside the motor housing on the top of the motor. If you break it or if it is already broken as many usually are, you will probably not be able to get another one for it. The only real damage not having one would be to cause the motor to run hotter and of course, should the shaft seal leak again, there is no protection for the motor from water running down into it.The fan acts as a water slinger to throw the water off to the sides.
When ISE took over building the 21 series, the Emerson reversing motor was put in.
I know it has at least a bottom ball bearing but have to check the top. I have a few of them so it should be easy to find and let you all know.
For the record, Hobart NEVER used a reversing motor in the commercial under-counter machines so there would not be any way to get the motor from them. Also, the replacement motors for their machines are now all Emerson built and look identical except most if, not all come with a big ass capacitor for it with a mounting kit and some wires to make the conversion.
The shaft seal used in the 21 and 22's were never employed in any of their machines either so they cannot be sourced from Hobart. But the seals for the 13 thru 30;s can still be had if they become NLA thru whirlpool.
Ironically, After Hobart stopped producing machines that shared the Kitchenaid pumps, namely the WM-5 series (KD-18 derivative nearly identical to the KD18E European machines), they came out with the SR24 which now utilizes the same pump system again, albeit using the single spray arm instead of the 4-way Hydrosweep!
So those parts again for the 18-20 series machines should be available for a long time to come.
Here is a pic of the arm installed in my KDS18 built from the KDS20 tank Eddie (Toploader55) brought down last spring.
Man does that arm ever turn dishes and bowl around. I think it even gets up further into the top rack and turns stuff over up there too!
The 21 series machines were built originally with the Hobart built reversing motors which had replaceable bearings. It is not hard to replace them as they are mounted to the motor rotor and come out with the rotor when you disassemble the motor. Even dis-assembly is easy. The only problem may be the cooling fan located outside the motor housing on the top of the motor. If you break it or if it is already broken as many usually are, you will probably not be able to get another one for it. The only real damage not having one would be to cause the motor to run hotter and of course, should the shaft seal leak again, there is no protection for the motor from water running down into it.The fan acts as a water slinger to throw the water off to the sides.
When ISE took over building the 21 series, the Emerson reversing motor was put in.
I know it has at least a bottom ball bearing but have to check the top. I have a few of them so it should be easy to find and let you all know.
For the record, Hobart NEVER used a reversing motor in the commercial under-counter machines so there would not be any way to get the motor from them. Also, the replacement motors for their machines are now all Emerson built and look identical except most if, not all come with a big ass capacitor for it with a mounting kit and some wires to make the conversion.
The shaft seal used in the 21 and 22's were never employed in any of their machines either so they cannot be sourced from Hobart. But the seals for the 13 thru 30;s can still be had if they become NLA thru whirlpool.
Ironically, After Hobart stopped producing machines that shared the Kitchenaid pumps, namely the WM-5 series (KD-18 derivative nearly identical to the KD18E European machines), they came out with the SR24 which now utilizes the same pump system again, albeit using the single spray arm instead of the 4-way Hydrosweep!
So those parts again for the 18-20 series machines should be available for a long time to come.
Here is a pic of the arm installed in my KDS18 built from the KDS20 tank Eddie (Toploader55) brought down last spring.
Man does that arm ever turn dishes and bowl around. I think it even gets up further into the top rack and turns stuff over up there too!
stevet
Well-known member
Wash Arm Support
Here is what the wash arm support looks like since the single arm screws into the shaft it rotates on. You would need the top and bottom parts that make up the upper pump but can reuse the impeller. It sometimes needs to be re-shimmed. And the Strainer has to be changed as well. This was part of a very expensive service kit.
BTW, the new arms, don't have the hard rubber clean out plugs anymore. They were done away with and the arm is closed on the ends where the plugs once were.
Here is what the wash arm support looks like since the single arm screws into the shaft it rotates on. You would need the top and bottom parts that make up the upper pump but can reuse the impeller. It sometimes needs to be re-shimmed. And the Strainer has to be changed as well. This was part of a very expensive service kit.
BTW, the new arms, don't have the hard rubber clean out plugs anymore. They were done away with and the arm is closed on the ends where the plugs once were.
stevet
Well-known member
So what have you found?
Have you found what may be wrong? Have you determined if the pump is actually leaking? If it isn't then look at the motor and see if the fan has not, in fact, broken in half. It splits where it goes over the motor shaft. And it WILL make a bad noise on start up in either direction but then subside greatly if not totally.
Do not give up hope. Pumps are available form older parts dealers or from some of us!
Waiting for the next installment in your saga
Steve
Have you found what may be wrong? Have you determined if the pump is actually leaking? If it isn't then look at the motor and see if the fan has not, in fact, broken in half. It splits where it goes over the motor shaft. And it WILL make a bad noise on start up in either direction but then subside greatly if not totally.
Do not give up hope. Pumps are available form older parts dealers or from some of us!
Waiting for the next installment in your saga
Steve
I disassembled my Kitchen Aid KDI21A as far as I could. I cleaned everything out and reassembled it. It is running now. It is not any louder than it was, so apparently I did no damage. It almost seems to have quieted down a little in the last couple of weeks. It still washes so I guess I will just keep using it. There do not seem to be any leaks. There is no water under it - only cobwebs. The next post has a collage of the four stages of disassembly.
KDI21A
Here is a collage of the next four steps of disassembly. The top left is the filter directly under the wash arm shown in the last post. The next three photos are the next three layers. I couldn't seem to get it disassembled beyond the point shown in the last photo.
Here is a collage of the next four steps of disassembly. The top left is the filter directly under the wash arm shown in the last post. The next three photos are the next three layers. I couldn't seem to get it disassembled beyond the point shown in the last photo.
retromania
Well-known member
Those older KitchenAids we such nice machines!
rodneypierce
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2011
- Messages
- 47
ah, looks very familiar!! Steve is the best thing that happened to mine as far as these old kitchenaid units go. The guy is very helpful, and has a TON of knowledge. Next on the list would be Combo52. Also another amazingly knowledgeable fella, with a TON of experience and will to help anyone that needs it. Mine also makes a nice noise when it starts, and when it pumps out the water. It will be coming out here in the next few weeks to replace the kitchen floor. I will check on the motor then.
Lemishine
Taking photos of the inside and parts certainly shows up the 25 year collection of crud. I will get some of this Lemishine stuff and clean it up. I did clean it quite a bit while it was disassembled, but it sounds like this stuff can reach places I can't?
Taking photos of the inside and parts certainly shows up the 25 year collection of crud. I will get some of this Lemishine stuff and clean it up. I did clean it quite a bit while it was disassembled, but it sounds like this stuff can reach places I can't?
Lemishine contains citric acid. It's main purpose is to get your glassware sparkling, but will also help to clean up your machine's interior and components in the process. I think it has instructions for dishwasher cleaning on the label. It comes in a plastic container that resembles the type Comet cleanser comes in. I think I'd just fill both detergent cups with it and let 'er rip.
White vinegar also works, but it smells bad.
White vinegar also works, but it smells bad.
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