35W Freeway Bridge Collapse

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~Feds Direct States to Inspect Bridges

Remember the large-scale blackout on the eastern seaboard on August 14th a few years back?

The feds said that was being investigated as well, to prevent a re-occurance. To date I don't recall anything being done to the nation's power-grid. What did the Bush immediately do with that calamity before he had any info? Blame Cananda. Jackass.

I wonder if the support columns /footings that were in the river somehow became undermined / compromised/weakened.
 
You're absolutely right, Toggle. Where are the Democratic candidates with their speeches about infrastructure decay now? (Chirp, chirp)

How many bridges need to fall, how many levees need to fail, power grids fry, jars of poison peanut butter from China - how many people have to die before we realize that safety is more than just hunting for Osama? Oh, wait...
 
Hi everyone!

I'm glad everyone that I know is safe and sound!

I'm sorry I haven't been around lately. That's a story in itself.

I miss all of you very much!

I'll be back when things settle down.

XO
 
I would have to watch PBS again (might when it is rebroadcast
at midnight), but one of the guests made a comment that 1/3 of
the bridges are in a less-than-acceptable state. Other stories
have said 13% are in the same category as the 35W bridge was.
Not sure why the different numbers.

(sudsmaster - not sure what you are saying - the bridge on 10th
is still standing - it is near the 35W bridge.)

One of the news programs also said that 72,xxx bridges are rated
to be in WORSE shape than the 35W bridge was. With OK, PA, and
RI having the most bridges that need work.

I find the political posturing to be disingenuous. Members in
Minnesota may remember this is the governor that delayed the
upgrade of the/one-of-the worst stretches of highway in the
US because he wanted the contractors to finance the upgrade
instead of selling bonds. No one bid on the project.

Robert, where did you hear your numbers - KARE 11 news just
now (10 PM) said there were still 30 people missing?

750 bridges like this one across the country.

When I watch the video, it looks to me as though the south
end of the bridge starts falling first (but only by some
milliseconds?)
 
Robert, where did you hear your numbers - KARE 11 news just now (10 PM) said there were still 30 people missing?
I heard it on WCCO TV4 at 6pm, CNN is also now reporting that number.

I also heard tonight that there are 750 bridges of this style in the USA and Rich they said 59 of these are in California, but I don't know if they are exactly like this bridge, as you said the code is probably different there because of the earthquake potential. Ohio apparently has the most with over 100 of this style bridge.
 
heads should roll............

Gov. Tim Pawlenty, (R), of MN was quoted as saying "The 35W bridge didn't need replacing until the year 2020 or beyond"? (Clueless)! Maybe my washer friends from MN can fill me in..

News reports said this bridge was deemed structurally unsound more than 2 yrs ago. I just don't get it..people are dead or missing now! Our federal Gov't can find the money to fund an immoral and unjust war, but Bush's 2005-2007 federal budgets, all include cuts to Medicare,Social Security, and federal infastructure. translated....(highways and bridges).

January 20,2009 can't come soon enough!!!
 
Hmm, 4 hour difference in news certainly doesn't say
much for their fact-finding.

At least they turned off the lights and removed the
non-entrance-ramp accesses to 280. Still wouldn't be
enthused about those single-lane congestion points.
 
There's also the list of bridges MN DOT considers to be in
worse shape than 35W was. But they said it was an internal
list and not for publication... They're not getting away
with that and it will be made available.
 
Unimatic.....

This is Charles...... I haven't posted here in a long time, but I am one of the first/original members of "automaticwasher.org". When I heard about the bridge collasping in Minnesota, you were the person I was thinking of and wondering if you were alright.

I'm glad to see that you are, and hopefully, Neal is too.

You're right about one thing, when the news broke, the news was spreaded all over the country at breakneck speed (no pun intended). But again, it's good to see that you're alright and in good spirits.

Now, with that in mind, I am beginning to wonder about some of the bridges in my city (Washington, D. C.). Hopefully, we're not going to go through the same fate y'all did. But you never know these days.

Take care for now and keep us up to date as to what's happening.

--Charles--
 
What a tragic Event

I was in the middle of meeting when the news came across on the radio at about 10am on Thursday morning here. The first thing I also did was logged on here, to make sure you were ok. I was very releived to see your message, and to hear that all of the Minnesotians seem to be ok.

We had a recent problem on our expressway here, where they were repairing the expansion joints and resurfacing, and a ramp over the top of the freeway twisted and cracked. They closed it all down, and have now managed to remount the base, but it is amazing what can happen when you try to maintain something that mightnt have been touched in 20 years. Our main freeway was only closed for 5 days, and that brought traffic to a stop all over the city.

I can only imagine what this will do to the beautiful city of MSP and I hope that they can rebuild and move on as soon as possible.

Best wishes

Nathan
 
As awful as this was, there's a few things to be thankful for...

That the bridge wasn't at full capacity.

That it wasn't winter, where it would be hideously cold and dark to boot, at that time of day.

That the train underneath wasn't carrying some sort of hideous chemical (or people, for that matter, although Amtrak doesn't travel that route).

...I could go on, but you get the idea. I'm no Pollyanna, but I am struck by the "what ifs"

When you think about it, a tornado could do much more damage, but I think that since it's a failure of "our" technology, we feel it more acutely.
 
Someone mentioned to me earlier that a controversial aspect to this tragedy is that money was spent on a costly ballpark in the area that should have been earmarked toward infrastructure maintenance.

Apparently the opening of the ballpark itself was quietly called off....

Any truth to this, or is it just political jockeying?
 
No. There was a baseball game that evening, but nothing to
do with the new ballpark. The ballpark issue is another matter
and I suppose depending on your point of view they could be
related, just because money is money, but it's not a matter of
money being earmarked for one thing or another. The ballpark
would have made no difference one way or another - well, maybe
a .1% chance of a difference - insignificant. The ballpark is
supposed to be built sometime in the future - I don't know when
because I don't care about it - other than public money that
might go towards it. Actually, I think most people in MN would
rather it not be built, but it was pushed through by the Twin
Cities, especially MPLS politicians, and the Twins.
 
Up to a Trillion and a Half Dollars!

This is about how much it would cost to get all of our bridges up to snuff. This amount would be spent within the next five years. Current legislative offerings don't even come close. Again, look at how much we have already spent in Iraq, along with these tax cuts. Not that these tax cuts are unappreciated, but definitely in need of wiser spending and taxation practices. Oh yes! Let's also not forget all these stupid "pork barrel" packages that have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Then, too, maybe these would be.--Laundry Shark
 
What is the definition of "up to snuff"? Another dichotomy
of numbers - $65 billion for 13% of the bridges vs. $1.5 trillion
for all the bridges?

Where did you hear/get the $1.5 trillion number?
 
Like all of you, I am glad that this was not worse than it is. My mom was quite upset. She graduated from the U of M, although she spent most of her time at the ag campus in St. Paul. After graduation she managed the 11PM to 7AM shift in the cafeteria of a big defense plant way west of the cities. Her big event there was when Roosevelt died.

Not to make light of the tragedy, but the Police Chief Tim Dolan sure brought beauty to the screen as did the Mayor of Minneapolis.

Most, if not all of the Federal Interstate Highway System was built with money from coffers here in Washington. They started during Eisenhower's term as Defense Highways for moving troops and weapons around the country. He was impressed by the autobahns. The states put up some matching funds in places, but I remember the big signs stating: YOUR FEDERAL TAX DOLLARS AT WORK wherever the construction was taking place. The bad thing about the Federal Government is that while they make it possible to build things, they are very bad at maintaining them. In the late 70s, a seam split in the water proof membrane under the kitchen on the top floor of the Center for the Performing Kennedys. The US Park Service kept requesting funds to fix the floor membrane, but the requests for the comparatively modest sum kept being turned down. By that time the plaster on a large section of the huge right wall of the concert hall was bubbling and flaking and looking like hell. Finally, the concert hall was closed for a year while everything from the kitchen floor down was fixed. The highways and sewers and water systems, like the electrical grid (not all of them government built)are there, but no one in a position to do anything is thinking about the deterioration, nor does anyone want to talk about it. On still summer mornings if you walk around Capitol Hill, you can smell natural gas seeping from the ancient pipes installed underground over 100 years ago.

I do not understand why the bridge was built without center support "to aid navigation" when the water is, according to reports 7 to 9 feet deep and just above the bridge is a dam. It's not like the Chesapeake Bay Bridge with huge freighters passing under it many times a day. Does the dam have a lock for river traffic to negotiate the dam? The 10th Street Bridge has supports aplenty so was this bridge design more designer's ego than practical?

I hope the death toll does not rise much higher and that everyone gets adequate treatment for the trauma. I have no worries about the bridge being rebuilt rapidly. It's in a wealthy city with probably a majority caucasian population and the Democratic Party plans to hold their next convention there.
 
Rich they said 59 of these are in California,

Don't know if you meant this Rich, but the head of Caltrans has stated that California has no bridges of the same design as the 35W bridge. Also, while about 85 bridges in California are also listed as "structurally deficient" this can mean something like peeling paint or potholes in the roadway. It's a very broad designation and really doesn't give enough detail to make decisions about which bridges are safe and which are not safe.
 
CalTrans says we have some truss bridges here, but they have more supports under them and don't span 500' like the 35W did so are not as precarious. Seems like 1967 was a notorious year for bad construction. If memory serves me, a state building in El Centro that was built in '67 collapsed in an earthquake when it was only about 20 or so years old and the earthquake wasn't even that strong. I think many of the buildings that were damaged beyond repair in the '94 Northridge quake were also mid 60's vintage. My company has a facility next to a 10-story 60's building in Van Nuys that to this day remains red-tagged.

I agree that in the video that captured the collapse it appears the failure at both ends of the center span was almost simultaneous. That's probably got a lot of experts scratching their heads. It will be interesting what sort of spin they give this failure. I think it's going to be nearly impossible to ever be sure what caused it.
 
The depth varies up to 14 feet deep. There is a set of
locks right near the bridge on the south side of the river.
You can see them in some of the pictures broadcast.

You may have already seen it on the news tonight, but they're
thinking there was a problem on the south end with the deck
moving east and the structure/support moving west (upstream) -
a difference of 50' in movement.
 
It is interesting that there is money for a ballpark most people could care less about, but not moneys for infrastructure.
And there is Federal monies that will match dollar for dollar with state monies for projects like this. But if the state doesn't raise taxes or find another means of contibuting, then there is no bridge improvement.

We need the rich, who are pigging out and not paying their fair share of taxes to pay up. And we need tax cuts for the people making less than $125,000 a year. Those people making the most should be paying 50% taxes on income. This wouldn't change the fact that they are STILL rich. A gallon of milk costs the same regardless of who is buying it.
Now, the rich individuals and those who incorporate to shield themselves pay a pitance in taxes and AND spend their monies buying people who will convince the general public that taxes are bad. I give you fox news trash.
Taxes for the Richest is good. Tax cuts for the poorest is necessary. People, the richest are a small minority and can be out voted. I underscore VOTE.

Our country is so screwed. We owe so much money to the Chinese and other countries. It is sad to see a once grand country quietly slipping into fascism, and people don't want to believe it. They want to keep reliving yesterdays glorys. Were not going back to the 1950's. People turn their heads and play ignorant so as not to have to claim responsibility. How many more bridge collapses, City obliterations from global warming, and outright political criminal behavior is our country going to tolerate? Where is the outrage? Are people so medicated these days that they don't resist these abusive situations? That is not acceptable.

Honestly, I am getting to the point ... There are better countries to live. The U.S. is not number one or the best... Unless it comes to waste and pointless consumption.
 
Canada's looking better and better all the time isn't it Erik? I too am wondering where the outrage is. Bush should have been run out on a rail a long time ago and he continues to thumb his nose at the legal process and protect his rotten-to-the-core cronies and CEO pals.

I just hope that this country isn't brought to its knees--because it's going to be at this rate--while I'm still living here.

It's high time California (or the entire west coast) seceded in my opinion, although that would only weaken the U.S. GNP more than it already is.
 
rp2813

Remember those maps after the 2004? election showing CA, OR, WA,
MN, WI, MI, northeast states, and maybe a few others becoming
part of Canada (or a newly-named country) and all the red states
becoming a country called Jesusland? Most of the taxes are
paid by the blue states, yet it is the red states that complain
about taxation while getting back more than they put in.
 
Oh yeah.

Locks are on the south side of the river, just a short number
of feet west of the bridge.

Also, the Republican National Convention will be in MPLS, not
the Democratic National Convention. That was one of the comments
on the news last night - have to get this resolved so those
conventioneers can get around....
 
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