Using STPP

[gpevas]

I have a question I know someone out there knows the answer to. I used STPP sodium tripolyphosphate in my Speed Queen wringer washer. I use Zote soap and Calgon all the time. I posted a Zote soap post a wole back and the term STPP came up. I bought a pound of it to try. I must say what a difference!!!!!!! It made my wash super clean and white!! What made me worried a bit is it cleaned the aluminum agitator that had spots to it. It made the aluminum agitator a darker color. Is this a chemical reaction? I read that phosphates are not good for the lakes and streams I live very close to,Lake Erie. I may not get more because of this but just had to try it. Please give your thought. Thanks Gary.......

 

[whirlcool]

How much did you use? It only takes a tablespoon or so to work. It shouldn't discolor your aluminum.

 

[gpevas]

Now I know

I used a half cup. I didn't know??

 

[sudsmaster]

The rule of thumb for STPP is to use about 1/3 STPP to 2/3 detergent or soap. By weight or volume, it's not that critical, but 1/2 cup sounds a bit excessive. I would add the STPP before a soap, so as to tie up any hard water minerals that might bind with the soap and cause soap scum. However I've added both simultaneously in moderately soft water with no problems.

 

Phosphates may darken aluminum. As long as you don't see any pitting, it should be ok.

 

The use of phosphates in residential laundry may be illegal in your area. Check first.

 

 

[tomturbomatic]

When determining how much STPP to use, you add enough to the water to make it feel slippery. That is "breaking" the water, an old term for conditioning the water. Depending on the number of gallons your washer holds and the hardness of the water, you might need close to a half cup. Then you add enough soap or detergent to make the suds. Even though you add additional washing product with each new load of laundry, you do NOT need to add more STPP. Since you are probably doing multiple loads in the wash water in your wringer, the water is probably just warm at the end of your washing and could be drained out onto your yard where the phosphates will help the grass eliminating your worry about adding phosphates to the lakes. Do not pour the water on any acid-loving plants.

Alkaline formulations will darken aluminum.

 

[mamapinky]

sudsmaster, I had been

Thinking about premixing a bit of detergent with the stpp..are you saying that it would be best to continue adding the stpp first to the water? (Regular top loader) I have been adding about a tablespoon and i do get slippery water I just thought it would be convenient to pre mix..not that its much of a chore adding it separately. .lol .Thank You

 

[gpevas]

Thanks

I want to THANK all the people who responded to my question about STPP. I never even thought it might be illegal to use STPP in my area. It is a great suggestion to put the wash water on my lawn instead of letting it go down the drain thanks Turbomatic!!!!

 

[mamapinky]

illegal to use stpp

I thought it was only illegal for manufacturers to put it into the detergent..anyone correct me if I'm wrong? I did do a small search and unless I missed it I couldn't find anything about using stpp at home being illegal. .thanks all

 

[tomturbomatic]

I think that it is banned in detergents, but I have to agree, I don't think it is illegal to possess or use.

 

[mamapinky]

thank you tom

I really don't think it is so... I will continue to use it..at least on especially dirty clothes which I have an abundance of in the summer (6&7year old grandsons were raising) and I'm fussy about clothes being CLEAN..no doubt stpp helps the detergent work to its full capacity. .thanks Tom for your input. .Cheryl

 

[tomturbomatic]

You are more than welcome, Cheryl. We are here to help as well as have fun.

Have a good summer.

 

[esty]

Is stpp safe to add to laundry detergent for people with sensitive skin? My son has very sensitive skin and I cannot use detergents with enzymes for his laundry. I use arm and hammer unscented. Now that spring is here he loves to play outside and gets very dirty. I was wondering if stpp can boost the detergent power, but stay skin friendly?

 

[tomturbomatic]

There is nothing about STPP that contains a fragrance or dye. Providing that you thoroughly rinse it from the fabrics, STPP, by itself, should not cause an allergic reaction. In fact, because STPP improves not only cleaning, but also rinsing, it has potential to better remove the detergent in the rinse cycle. If you add STPP to the wash water, you can use less detergent so there is less to rinse out.

 

[launderess]

Have said this numerous times and am here once again....

When using soap for laundry softening chemicals go into the water *first*. You want to bind hard water minerals *before* the soap gets to them so the thing can do its job effectively without interference. Doing otherwise means soap will do what it does naturally, soften water.

 

[mamapinky]

Thank you launderess

For your expert advice...I will continue adding the stpp first as what you've said makes logical sense..again thank you

 

[sudsmaster]

Maryland Environment Code 9-1501 et al.
1. Restrictions: A person may not use, sell, manufacture, or distribute for use or sale any cleaning
agent that contains more than 0.0% phosphorus by weight expressed as elemental phosphorus
except for an amount not exceeding 0.5% phosphorus that is incidental to manufacturing.
 

Definitions: "Cleaning agent" means a laundry detergent, dishwashing compound, household
cleaner, metal cleaner, degreasing compound, commercial cleaner, industrial cleaner, phosphate
compound or other substance that is used or intended to be used for cleaning purposes.

 

[mamapinky]

guess that

Answers the question about using stpp at least in Maryland...and since stpp is not a *Cleaning Agent* maryland people are safe from breaking the law using it..the ban hasn't reached the level of consumers purchasing and using stpp in their homes..at least not yet in maryland...lol...or did I read that all wrong sudsmaster!

 

[sudsmaster]

I don't know how one could conclude that STPP is not a cleaning agent. Since it is a cleaning agent when used to help clean laundry or dishes, usually combination with another cleaning agent. And please note the Maryland law specifically mentions "phosphate compound" as a cleaning agent. STPP is without a doubt a phosphate compound.

 

As for states, most that regulate phosphate mention only the mfg, sale, distribution. However the following states also regulate the use of phosphates: Illinois, Maryland, Rhode Island, South Carolina, and Vermont. Check the link out for most information.

 

However, I doubt that anyone is going to get arrested for adding an ounce or two of STPP to one's laundry or dishwasher. But the laws appear to be on the books in these states. And the Maryland environmental code provides for up to $25,000 civil penalty for every day a violation occurs.

http://https//www.issa.com/data/mox...ry-reference-library/phosphate_survey2013.pdf

 

[mamapinky]

I stand

Corrected. .I wasnt realizing stpp was a cleaning agent on Its own and I failed to read all you posted..guess I better look into pa laws and not tell people when they ask why my boys white tees always look so new..lol..I'm sorry sudsmaster

 

[sudsmaster]

Well, if you read the link I provided, you'll see that Pennsylvania is one of those states that doesn't specifically mention "use" in its regulation of phosphates. Thus I'd say that as long as you're not manufacturing, selling, or distributing, it would be legal there to add some STPP to your wash.

 

However I am not a lawyer nor do I portray one on TV. This should not be considered to be legal advice.

 

 

[mamapinky]

thanks sudsmaster

For the info..and no I won't consider it legal advice..hehe..that would be my attorneys job and since I really don't want another bill this month I'm not calling him lol...but thank you again

 

[mich]

One should always keep in mind..

That STPP is considered by the FDA to be a Food Additive. The Same goes for TSP as well. 

 

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">STPP is used heavily in Fish Packing & Processing. And TSP can even be found in Cheerios. </span>

 

The ingredient itself isn't banned or restricted. It's the way it's "mixed" and made into products that is restricted. So... Companies like SC Johnson or Procter & Gamble can't just throw a dash of the stuff into their products. 

 

Now.<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> If STPP was being used on a massive level...</span> perhaps knowingly by a dry cleaning chain or in a hospitality environment.  Fines would probably be imposed & perhaps, even legal action against a certain individual.  

 

However..

 

You've got to keep in mind. Farmers & Companies purchase these chemicals on massive scales, for use in meat packing, and industrial fertilization.  It's just not a industry with any oversight. 

 

I personally wouldn't worry or let it keep you up at night. No Police Department is going to investigate you.. for adding some phosphate into your laundry. They simply don't have the manpower or resources to even look into such a case. And that's assuming they wouldn't burst out laughing, being informed of the situation

 

 

 

[mamapinky]

just to be

On the safe side of the law...I'm going to keep fresh meat on hand..if I'm busted I will explain that my small 5 pound pail of stpp is simply to pack meat...lol. I can see the headlines now ..seriously I'm not worried here I will continue using when my laundry needs it. And Mich thanks for the info. By the way if I am arrested I will be in the prison laundry room working my fines off hehe

 

[mamapinky]

stpp low density

I bought my stpp from the chem store..but I see it on amazon as low density is there a difference??

 

[sudsmaster]

No idea what "low density" means vis a vis STPP. Usually there's technical grade (OK for laundry) or food grade (better than needed for laundry). Maybe the low density is puffed up like rice krispies?

 

 

[gpevas]

Low density?

I also seen the two different types of STPP and avoided the low density. I can't believe the difference in how it cleaned my cloths. I put the water with STPP on my grass ect. I don't want to be responsible for contributing to Lake Erie having a alge bloom this summer. If any person knows the difference between the two STPP let us know.......PS. Thanks Laundress for telling us WHEN to use STPP, by the way never use tri sodium phosphate I did with Zote soap and had a BIG MESS...

 

[mamapinky]

light density not low

Sorry I miss worded..on amazon its actually worded sodium tripolyphosphate light density tech grade ..ships from the general store..but I don't think The Chem store uses the words light density..thanks everyone

 

[sudsmaster]

Like most chemical powders, STPP is available in various particle densities, such as light, medium, and heavy. The light density powder occupies the most volume per unit weight. It is also the fastest dissolving. So, while it may be more bulky than the heavier particle density grades, it's probably the best choice for use in a washer where fast dissolution is desirable.

 

It's important to remember that despite the density differences, these different grades are essentially the same chemical: Na5P3O10. It's just that a pound of the light will contain more air spaces than pound of the heavy.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

 

[this post was last edited: 4/17/2015-10:28]

 

[mamapinky]

thank you

Rich..you gave me a answer I was wondering about..mixing the stpp into detergent and since I use detergent and not soap I will go ahead and do that after I figure out the ratio using a top loader with med water hardness well I'm guessing at the hardness..I wouldn't say its hard as a brick as I never have deposits in the tubs or sinks gotta remind myself to get a test kit..but thank you much Rich for your wisdom

 

[mamapinky]

found answers

On the product site...stpp: the density refers to the granule size stpp can be light, light dense, or dense....now anyone know out of these 3 which one is best..lol thank you all