Using STPP

[stan]

Thank you

Laundress and Sudsmaster

Yes I do have a digital scale. I use it to make laundry soap. The formula for laundry soap and process is quite different for bath or complexion soap. The laundry soap is "built" so a certain extent.
I do use STPP (light density) when using a "soap" for laundry, as well as pure sodium percarbonate for whites when I'm not using LCB. However I generally do not premix, and add to the machine.
I realize that my methods would be considered "outmoded" by most, as I still pretreat stains with ammonia, glycerin, vinegar, peroxide, all the old time stuff! And don't rely on the machine and the surfactants to do everything. On rare occasions I still pre soak, pre wash ect if I think it's necessary.
I'm basically doing what Laundress posted up thread by pre treating the water first, then adding the soap, then the clothes. This has always made sense to me. I'm able to do this because of my TL automatic and my Maytag Wringer. Doubt the average person outside of our group would take the time, or do the planning, I'm able to get away with this because I have control over the machines operations, and the rinse temperatures.
I was interested I the 33% STPP by weight and the intermixing with Washing soda, as these could also be added to the "laundry soap" formula during the making of, for someone who uses a FL and has no way to pretreat.
Thank you both again, and thank you Gary for raising the questions.
Good thread

 

[sudsmaster]

I have not noticed that STPP makes synthetic detergent suds up more. That is probably because synthetic detergent surfactants are not susceptible to inactivation for hard water/soil minerals.

 

It might aid in suds level of natural soaps because it can prevent creation of soap scum which inactivates soap. But then washing soda would do much the same, except with a precipitate as the product.

 

In my experience home laundry is a trial and error process. The amounts listed on the products are just a guideline, and even those say add more or less depending. Which is a reason why I don't care much for gel packs and tablets for laundry purposes. Although they do seem to work OK for dishwashers, especially those with multiple pre-rinses to remove as much food/grease/etc as possible before the addition of the detergent.

 

 

[mamapinky]

stan

When you make your own laundry soap..is it the same recipe as on the web..fels, washing soda, and borax? My son made the recipe from the web..I couldn't understand how such a small amount of each ingredient would clean the clothes and how the soap would rinse out but my son and his wife loved it..they now use tide I don't know why they switched. Also I also pretreat when needed but not so much anymore. I do almost always do a long soak on whites..I try to save whites for evening than I throw them in on 125 degrees with tide with bleach and biz let them agitate a few min and shut them off till mor ing..I also have a top loader..I use the same routine for dish towels.your right about the average person not taking the time..I am often made the brunt of family jokes about my laundry routine and detergent fetish lol most of these people throw laundry and detergent in and return for it when they remember but these same people have no problem running to me when there favorite textile needs help.lol could you explain the homemade laundry soap unless that requires a different thread...thank you

 

[stan]

Hi Mamapinky

I've never understood the online recipe. As you say, not enough going in to clean anything.
So No, I'm not using the online version. I'm making the actual soap bar. My formula for the soap is based on a 100 year old formula that I've enhanced, and when used for laundry, I still pretreat or precondition the water as well. This particular soap is only used for laundry, scrubbing floors ect. Completly different than a bath or complexion soap.
I have used the Zote (original question) with STPP but didn't care for the scent or the optical Brighteners contained therein.
And mine cleans better LOL

 

[launderess]

Stpp + Synthetic Detergents ='s Froth

Two things come to my mind.

One the phosphates are releasing trapped soap/detergent residue from fabrics which when combined with whatever amount was added to the wash is producing excess froth. Depending upon the amount of residue it could be possible to launder with just phosphates to strip out that residue. In other words there is enough detergent left in the wash for cleaning.

With some liquid detergents especially those laden with soap have had issues with using STPP. This happens often with the various liquid, gel and pod detergents one has from Europe. Since water in our area is already very soft enough one can reduce dosage of most European products have stopped adding STPP to those loads.

 

[launderess]

Hey Stan

Speaking of soap did you ever use that P&G or Persil I sent awhile back?

 

[gpevas]

Stan

You talk about a good soap formula can you share it? I use Zote soap grated and add calgon the new version with zeolites. I may have misspelled that? Or I use STPP which I can't believe how it get items REALLY clean. I have very oily skin and hair so my pillow cases and sheets do not get clean in detergents. That's why I tried Zote soap and it gets the oily residue left by detergents.

 

[mamapinky]

suds

No launderess I don't usually have a suds issue in this top loader water hog unless I use cheer color guard powder and for some reason that gives me 3 inches of suds. I usually buy HE powdered detergent and I'm not a fan of liquid but I do have some including the new persil liquid. You brought up a question I've had..using stpp to strip the detergent. .I have a 6yo with severe asthma and I'm always concerned that his laundry is rinsed well so 2 rinses always in the water hog for him..do you think it would be beneficial if the first rinse I add stpp? I also always use warm water rinses. Thank you much Cheryl

 

[stan]

Cheryl

Don't want to answer for Laundress.. She'l be along to do that herself, but I would say yes. Adding a little STPP to the first rinse will assist in rinsing.
Removing soap or detergent residue can be achieved with Washing soda as well (just have to rinse well) I discovered this when I didn't have STPP. A friend of mine had a washer that had gotten gunked up..who knows why.. I think it was because she only used liquid detergent, never use washing soda, STPP ect. Anyway she called me in a panic! all I had was Washing soda. I went over, took the cabinet off to see what was between the inner and out tub! Short if taking it apart, I decided to filled that baby with hot water put in a little more than a cup of Washing Soda and let it rip on a long cycle (no clothes) After A minute or two of agitation, it started sudsing and we were able to see nastiness (is that a word) breaking loose from the tub. And we watched what came out of the drain hose
(it emptied into a laundry sink) after..the machine was sparkling clean, with no odor. You'd have thought she was a soap user, but she wasn't. I told her that she either need to occasionally add either STPP, or a little Washing Soda with her liquid. Or occasionally use powdered detergent and hot water.
Gary, I can send you a bar if you want? I wouldn't recommend trying to make this yourself unless you've had some experience with making hot process soap. If you have, and want to spend the time, I'll send you the formulas and method

 

[stan]

Almost forgot Laudress!

No Dear I haven't tried the vintage Persil. It's on display over the Maytag, but I've been tempted!

 

[mamapinky]

Stan your friends washer reminded me of my roper top loader. .I inherited it so to speak from my mother along with her home in 2009 the washer was already in place so I gave my whirlpool away..well the washer was fine until last summer I noticed the laundry comming out with slimy lint a lot of it...so I searched on the web and learned how to take the drum out so I could clean between ..oh my gosh what a mess I'm not joking when I say I scraped off cup after cup of slimy goo and it was evergwhere..than it was scrubbed with chlorine bleach it was a major job and I will never do it again. I think this washer was purchased in 2001and my mother only ever used original powdered tide and chlorine bleach several timesa month she would have never used soap or even lliquid detergent but she was a heavy fabric softener user. I plan to get rid of this roper next year because of fill up issues it only fills half way for wash and rinse cycles even if its set on large load so I've had to hold the knob in between load size to fill up I've had to do it so often it now sticks if I'm not carefull and indeed flooded once what a nightmare that was.ok I'm done rambling. .lol

 

[gpevas]

Stan

I would love to try your bar soap! I made soap in my high school years over 30 years ago. Let me know how much. I have learned so much from this forum and met some nice people also!!!

 

[stan]

Hi Gary

Email me a address and I'll send you a bar to try, with instructions for use.
BTW I know what you mean about soap working on oily residue, better than some detergents. You wouldn't think so but it dose!

 

[mamapinky]

I'm confused

I know I'm new here but I was reading the posts here all winter..I'm sure I read discussions about soap and its effects on washers which wernt good and about how hard it is to rinse out of textiles but maybe I've misunderstood something along the way...than I've seen talk on the web about soap in the laundry clogging pipes..so I am confused..can someone please help me understand..thanks a bunch everyone

 

[stan]

Hi Cheryl

Sorry It is confusing.

Others with modern FL machine will tell you that it's not a good idea to use soap with these machines, and their right!
Their not designed to handle soap. The mechanical action of a FL is for the clothes to be lifted up and then fall onto themselves, that's the agitation.
Using soap in such a machine would soften the blow so to speak, and hinder effective cleaning.
Theres no way to precondition the water with a FL, unless there is already soft water entering the machine to start with. So I would think that soap should only be used as a pre treater or stain stick only.
Someone who has a TL will have more to say on the subject (I don't have one, and ain't aiming to get one)
But the original topic here was a Speed Queen Wringer Washer, Zote Soap, and STPP.
With a wringer or even a older top loader the operator can control operation, mainly the wash and rinse temps. And to tell you the truth..stop the machine, reach in and feel the water, and look in and see what happening.
Gary's wringer dose not have a inner or outer tub for soap to get caught between. And as long as he's using that machine, and the water softener (in this case it's STPP) pretreats and rinses well, he should achieve acceptable results.
A word of caution here..soap will set certain stain, coffee, tea, wine ect. So these should be dealt and removed before contact with soap.
It's worth noting that not all soaps are created equal, same can be said for detergents.
For the most part their are only two "laundry soaps" that are readily available from the store...The Zote, and Fels Naptha. The formula for Fels has been changed a few times since it's conception, but is still considered "built " to a certain degree. The Zote is a little more basic, but dose contain optical brighteners for fabric.
When soap is held up to modern detergents, they lack the the enzymes, oxygen bleaches, water softeners, and a host of other ingredients to achieve perfect laundry results.
However with the right soap the right machine, the right water conditions and used correctly, beautiful results can be achieved.

 

[mamapinky]

stans explanation

Was very helpful to me thank you stan...you worded it so I understood exactly..I will not be trying this lol but its very interesting.again thank you much. Cheryl

 

[launderess]

Early Commercial Washing Machines

Were almost universally then as now H-axis types and they managed with soap. Indeed there was no other choice since modern detergents didn't arrive until post WWII. Even then most testing showed in soft water soap gave equal to better cleaning compared to "detergents". In hard water things were different and that is where detergents edged out soap.

Depending upon the cycle and or soiling the froth created by soap can be controlled not to impeded (much) the washing process in a front loader.

Have said it before and am here to say so again; to use soap for laundering you need plenty of *HOT* and *SOFT* clean water. If the soap is dissolved well before being introduced to the washer *and* the water is kept hot enough to prevent it from congealing then part of the problem is solved. Again as one has stated often you need several *HOT* or at least warm rinses to flush out soap. If you remove all or most traces of soap before introducing cool or cold water you diminish much of the gunking up problems.

Keeping the washer clean and free of residue is the same as commercial laundries did back in the day; you have to clean out the machine. This normally involved hot to boiling water and the use of an acid to dissolve scum. On pony washers they also opened the door and took a brush or stuff broom and "scrubbed" off the gunk.

 

[stan]

Those early commercial washers

used more water in comparison than a modern at home FL machine.
Its been said that.. Yes... Rinsing is crucial when using soap, as well as softening or pretreating the water, thats a given, but I've read post after post with complaints about Tide and other detergents not rinsing easy either.
I've said this before, and will say again, besides water conditions, the rinse ability of soap, good or bad can be caused by how the soap was created... What fats were used, and in what percentages, was all fat reacted (AKA lye concentrations) Was the soap hot or cold processed, was the soap purified, were additives or builders used in the formula... All this has a effect on how soap performs as well as how well it rinses away.

 

[mamapinky]

a big thank you

To stan and Launderess...for helping me to understand the use of soap in laundry. This has all been so interesting again thank you..Cheryl

 

[launderess]

Just looked at my vintage bottle of Fresh Start Detergent

Mentions non-ionic surfactants (low suds cleaning), protease and phosphates. Not a word about washing soda but then again phosphorus content is 14.7% equal to 5.7% per one quarter cup of product.