Using STPP

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Well, if you read the link I provided, you'll see that Pennsylvania is one of those states that doesn't specifically mention "use" in its regulation of phosphates. Thus I'd say that as long as you're not manufacturing, selling, or distributing, it would be legal there to add some STPP to your wash.

 

However I am not a lawyer nor do I portray one on TV. This should not be considered to be legal advice.

 
 
thanks sudsmaster

For the info..and no I won't consider it legal advice..hehe..that would be my attorneys job and since I really don't want another bill this month I'm not calling him lol...but thank you again
 
One should always keep in mind..

That STPP is considered by the FDA to be a Food Additive. The Same goes for TSP as well. 

 

<span style="text-decoration: underline;">STPP is used heavily in Fish Packing & Processing. And TSP can even be found in Cheerios. </span>

 

The ingredient itself isn't banned or restricted. It's the way it's "mixed" and made into products that is restricted. So... Companies like SC Johnson or Procter & Gamble can't just throw a dash of the stuff into their products. 

 

Now.<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> If STPP was being used on a massive level...</span> perhaps knowingly by a dry cleaning chain or in a hospitality environment.  Fines would probably be imposed & perhaps, even legal action against a certain individual.  

 

However..

 

You've got to keep in mind. Farmers & Companies purchase these chemicals on massive scales, for use in meat packing, and industrial fertilization.  It's just not a industry with any oversight. 

 

I personally wouldn't worry or let it keep you up at night. No Police Department is going to investigate you.. for adding some phosphate into your laundry. They simply don't have the manpower or resources to even look into such a case. And that's assuming they wouldn't burst out laughing, being informed of the situation ;)

 

 
 
just to be

On the safe side of the law...I'm going to keep fresh meat on hand..if I'm busted I will explain that my small 5 pound pail of stpp is simply to pack meat...lol. I can see the headlines now ..seriously I'm not worried here I will continue using when my laundry needs it. And Mich thanks for the info. By the way if I am arrested I will be in the prison laundry room working my fines off hehe
 
Low density?

I also seen the two different types of STPP and avoided the low density. I can't believe the difference in how it cleaned my cloths. I put the water with STPP on my grass ect. I don't want to be responsible for contributing to Lake Erie having a alge bloom this summer. If any person knows the difference between the two STPP let us know.......PS. Thanks Laundress for telling us WHEN to use STPP, by the way never use tri sodium phosphate I did with Zote soap and had a BIG MESS...
 
light density not low

Sorry I miss worded..on amazon its actually worded sodium tripolyphosphate light density tech grade ..ships from the general store..but I don't think The Chem store uses the words light density..thanks everyone
 
Like most chemical powders, STPP is available in various particle densities, such as light, medium, and heavy. The light density powder occupies the most volume per unit weight. It is also the fastest dissolving. So, while it may be more bulky than the heavier particle density grades, it's probably the best choice for use in a washer where fast dissolution is desirable.

 

It's important to remember that despite the density differences, these different grades are essentially the same chemical: Na5P3O10. It's just that a pound of the light will contain more air spaces than pound of the heavy.

 

I hope this answers your question.

 

 

[this post was last edited: 4/17/2015-10:28]
 
thank you

Rich..you gave me a answer I was wondering about..mixing the stpp into detergent and since I use detergent and not soap I will go ahead and do that after I figure out the ratio using a top loader with med water hardness well I'm guessing at the hardness..I wouldn't say its hard as a brick as I never have deposits in the tubs or sinks gotta remind myself to get a test kit..but thank you much Rich for your wisdom
 
found answers

On the product site...stpp: the density refers to the granule size stpp can be light, light dense, or dense....now anyone know out of these 3 which one is best..lol thank you all
 
As a rule of thumb, if you mix a standard non-phosphated powdered laundry detergent with STPP, a good ratio to use is two parts detergent to one part STPP. This works out to 33% STPP by weight. It also works out to about 8% phosphorus element by weight, which is typical for older phosphated detergent formulations.
 
Thank you Rich...I understand and I also recall another post of yours explaining this ratio but couldn't find it again...what is your take on premixing large batches..like 80 load box of powdered detergent with the stpp...my daughter in law wants to do that but I'm wondering if the stpp would hold up very long opening and closing the lid so often...I read somewhere the phosphates need to be kept from moisture ? Thanks for your help.
 
You can get a large plastic lidded food storage container at many food service stores like Smart & Final, or at hardware/variety stores. These can be perfect for storing larger quantities of pre-mixed detergent formulations.

 

The larger plastic bins that some powdered detergents come in often can accommodate another 33% by weight of STPP.
 
I'm curious..

I could see adding 33% by weight to soap (original question) but 33% added to detergent powder that already contains water softeners? I realize that the powdered detergents are non phosphated softeners? Wonder if that percentage should be increased a bit if using just Zote, Fels? Also since the detergent powders use sodium carbonate as the main softener.. How do the two (STPP and washing soda) get along together.
 
In The Days Of Using Soap

One generally chose one water softener or another. That is if going with the best (non-precipitating) such as phosphates (STPP or SHTP) you didn't need or wanted anything else. However if washing soda, borax or any of the other precipitating water softeners was all you had then there you were then.

Have a series of 1950's Consumer Reports Buying Guides (1950-1959 IIRC) and they reviewed laundry soaps vs. synthetic detergents every few years. In the reviews "built" soaps were listed along with whether they contained soda, borax or phosphates.

Fel's Naptha soap contains washing soda (old version)and a bunch of other ingredients. Fels Instant soap powder contained phosphates.

The vintage Persil soap powder in my stash claims not to contain soda. It did contain sodium silicate (the "sil" in Persil) which is an alkaline water softener and cleaning agent.

When it comes to synthetic laundry detergent powders however things are different.

You can make a very good product for cleaning laundry with just surfactants, and phosphates along with a few other chemicals. Besides dealing with hard water minerals phosphates bring many other properties. However with the increasing tree hugger movement to save waterways phosphate content was limited and or banned. Once this happened detergent makers had no choice but to turn to silicates, washing soda and borax along with a host of other chemicals to replace what phosphates did on their own.

Since the pure soap content of most laundry detergent powders is nil to none you don't have the same worries as using precipitating water softeners. Thus again a properly blended detergent powder with phosphates wouldn't cause the same worries as a pure soap product even with same.
 
Even vintage detergents often contained both washing soda and STPP. The benefit of the washing soda is that it increases the pH more than STPP by itself. The washing soda became important as a way to hold the phosphate level to no more than 8% elemental phosphorus by weight.  Older formulations often also contained copious amounts of sodium sulfate, which has little to no function other than to bulk up the product and perhaps make it pour easier. "Ultra" formulations simply eliminate the sodium sulfate, with little to no functional impact, other than requiring ounces rather than cups for proper wash load dosing.

 

For HE or front loader machines, a potential advantage of "cutting" the detergent with STPP is that it can lower the amount of surfactant, which in turn lowers the sudsing, while maintaining maximum build/break/water softening capability. If one is concerned about the suds level being too low, one can always add more of the mix, say, 1/3 more than one usually might add. That way the proportions would be no different than if one were to add, say, 1 oz of original detergent and 1/2 oz of STPP, by weight. Do you have a suitable scale in your laundry room for that?

 

None of this, however, is all that critical. If one adds 20% or 40% STPP I doubt it will make much difference in the wash results. The important thing is to add enough of the total mix to loosen and suspend all the dirt and allow it to be rinsed away.

 

 

 
 

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