70s Westinghouse washer Belt

[mohnashaat]

Hi every one, i really need your help. I am not an expert in washers, it is may be the second time i touch a washer from inside i moved in an apartment where there was an old Westinghouse TL washer the model is LA460PW and the belt was broken.

The belt number is Q181623, i knew after that that this washer is 40 years old as Westinghouse was discontinued , I bought another belt Q181625, they told me it is the same, now how to install it ? there is a third poly that moves with a magnet, is the belt all around ? i tried this but there is something wrong, it keeps rotating instead of draining

 

[washdaddy]

what are you referring to that is rotating instead of draining?

 

[mohnashaat]

the agitator

 

[cfz2882]

looks like you have a westy old enough for nuetral drain As i recall, the pulley with the solenoid(magnet)presses against the outsie of the belt to tighten the the belt-can't remember if the solenoid tightens the belt to spin or agitate or if the solenoid pulls back the idler pulley to loosen the belt and allow the "neutral drain"tub pumpout before spin.

 

[coldspot66]

I beleive that was called a pre-pump solenoid. Used on early Westy top load washers to loosen the belt during pump out.

 

[coldspot66]

Also new part # for Q181625 is 5308001832. Still available.

 

[laundromat]

Mine needs a new hub cap shaft pt # Q000168762 . $38.70

 

[mohnashaat]

thank you cfz2882 and coldspot66, it is now more clear for me but what is neutral drain ? and is not normal that even the belt is quite loosen, the agitator is still spinning, because it tried it without clothes and when it was supposed draining with only water inside, the water started to spin and was almost falling

i added some photos here, i started a new post before seeing your replies

 

[philr]

Do you have the matching dryer for your washer? Here's a dryer that looks very similar in Mirabel...

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-laveuse-sech...se/1015797745?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

[mohnashaat]

It seems they were separated twins since birth

No one replied about the belt

 

[turquoisedude]

I wish I could help - I had a washer like this years ago, but never did any work on it...

 

[gizmo]

I suspect you may have the belt mounted incorrectly.

I think the solenoid pulley runs on the outer edge of the belt, not the inside edge.

to explain "neutral drain":

Top Load washing machines operate in either of two ways when pumping out -
"Spin drain" - when washing is finished, the machine immediately starts to spin. The drum is still full of water and it slowly spins at first, as the water level drops, spin speed increases till when drum is empty, spin speed is maximum.

- OR -

"Neutral Drain" - when washing is finished, the pump operates first, draining the water from the drum before any spinning starts. Spin only commences when the drum is empty of water.

There is no clear agreement which is better - everyone has their preference.

Your Westinghouse has neutral drain - the solenoid pulley releases belt tension at the start of pumping out, so the pump operates without the belt driving the spin. After the pump has emptied the drum, the solenoid will engage spin by tightening the belt tension.

 

[golittlesport]

My family had a very similar Westy top loader, maybe one model down with water temps selected by the timer dial, purchased in 1971 or 72. It used a spin drain. The fact that the tub and agitator rotates but the water does not pump out makes me wonder if your pump is frozen or if something is jamming it. Have you opened the pump to inspect it?

 

[mrb627]

Ignorance is bliss?

So does the solenoid energize to add tension to the belt? Or to loosen it?

That is, is the solenoid energized for agitation and spinning or for neutral draining?

On a side note, that machine is in amazing condition for its age!

Malcolm

 

[gizmo]

Oh, sorry, I mis-understood the original post.

If the machine isn't draining then the fault is the pump, not the belt. The pump is driven directly by the motor, so belt problems don't affect the pump.

Possibly the pump is blocked, or the tub-to-pump hose, or the outlet hose.

I can't remember whether the solenoid energizes to loosen or tighten, but from vague memory the belt idler pulley is tensioned by a spring, and the solenoid pulls in against the spring to slacken the belt. So the solenoid would loosen the belt.

no guarantees that is correct, though.

These machines were manufactured in Australia for quite a few years, by the Email company. So they had both "Westinghouse" and "Email" logos on them. They have no brake to slow down the tub after spinning (or a very weak brake, I can't remember), so later ones were fitted with a lid lock.

 

[combo52]

WH TL Washer Problems

The Pre-Pump Solenoid was only used on a few early versions of this machine in the US and it was also available as a add on kit for later models to solve various problems that are always possible with spin-drain washers. When the solenoid is energized the belt is loosened so the washers tub can drain with almost no spinning action.

If the motor is running and the machine is not draining the pump is either blocked or otherwise broken, of coerce this is assuming the motor is running in the correct direction, otherwise you may have a timer problem.

 

[mohnashaat]

@golittlesport

I think mine is spin drain too, the pump is working fine, without the belt every thing is perfect, only no rotation.

@gizmo

This is my question since the beginning the solenoid pulley runs on the outer or the inner side of the belt.

I tried both with only water and in both case it was rotating when it started to pump out (drain), and because there was no clothes the water was agitated and almost falling out so i stopped the washer, so i cannot really say if it was draining or not.

here is the 2 cases: check the photo, i made a handy diagram

if the belt is all around the 3 pulleys, i had to press on the solenoid pulley to install it (almost as if the solenoid is engaged), so your explanation fits here (not on the outer edge) with the only thing that even if the solenoid is engaged and the belt is not really released may be less tightened.

the second case: the solenoid pulley runs on the outer edge of the belt so when the solenoid is engaged (pumping out) the belt is more tightened.

@ mrb627

this is the question, depending on how it is mounted, but in both cases i think it is a spin drain

i am really confused

 

[gizmo]

Your machine is designed to be neutral drain, that is what the solenoid is for.

It seems to me that if your machine pumps out correctly when the belt is disconnected, then your pump is fine.

The reason your machine is spinning too fast when full of water and almost spilling water over the top is because the solenoid is not releasing the tension enough, so even though the solenoid engages during pump out, the belt is still tight and the spinning action continues.

This suggests one of two problems:
1. The belt is not threaded properly, I'm afraid it is too long since I repaired one of these machines and I don't remember the correct pattern to install the belt.

2. The belt is the wrong size - too small.

I think both of your diagrams are wrong. The section of the belt closest to the solenoid should go in around the idler pulley.

i am trying to make a diagram but I have it saved as .odg file (open document draw file) and can't upload it as it isnt a .jpg.
I will try tomorrow to save it as .jpg but now I need to go to sleep.

 

[gizmo]

here, try this:

good night.

 

[mohnashaat]

The idler pulley is on the other side of the solenoid as in my diagram, your reasoning makes sence but needs a longer belt to do so. I bought the same belt length and asked the previous owner if he changed it before and he said no, so i think it is the original (40 years old may be !)' is there any way to check the belt type using the model number or a user manuel of old Westinghouse washers ?