70s Westinghouse washer Belt

[mohnashaat]

Spin drain ?

i found this video on youtube it is almost the same washer as mine, may be 1 year before or after and as i can see it is a spin drain, so i think mine is a spin drain too, the author of the video had some posts here too about his belt and it had the same number

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?17732

Now do the solenoid loosen or tightened the belt during the spin drain ?

 

[mohnashaat]

Any help ?

 

[mohnashaat]

Today i will install the belt and i'll try both configurations, any suggeations ?

 

[mohnashaat]

i tested a full washing cycle without the belt and the solenoid only energizes only when it is full of water and is pumping out, once the water is almost out, the solenoid is not energized. During washing, cool down, rinse and final spin the solenoid is not energized. So i believe that the role of the solenoid pulley is to loosen the belt while draining ? or the inverse ?

 

[DADoES]

 
I am not familiar with this Westinghouse mechanism, but the belt would logically need to be loosened, so as to slip on the pulleys, during a neutral drain period.

The pump is direct-drive per a post above (mounted atop the motor?) so the pump will still run at full speed with a "loose" belt.

Stands to reason that the belt should be tight around the motor and transmission (and clutch) pulleys during both agitation and spin.

Is the idler pulley spring-tensioned to apply pressure on the belt to tighten it when the solenoid is not energized?  Does the solenoid pull the idler away from the belt against the spring tension to loosen it?

 

[mohnashaat]

I am not sure it is a neutral drain, as i saw on the video of a similar washer (link in a previous reply), i think it is a spin drain.

yes the pump is mounted atop the motor.

When the belt is mounted all around the three pulleys as in my diagram above, i had to push the spring to its maximum (as if the solenoid is engaged) this means that when the solenoid will engage it is not really loosening the belt.

to answer your question Is the idler pulley spring-tensioned to apply pressure on the belt to tighten it when the solenoid is not energized? Does the solenoid pull the idler away from the belt against the spring tension to loosen it?)
yes the idler pulley spring-tensioned to apply pressure on the belt when the solenoid is not energized. the solenoid is supposed to pull the idler away from the belt to loosen it but as i said the way the belt is mounted, the sprinng is at its max and the solenoid has almost no effect

I tried with a small load , when it is time to drain, it started to spin and the water was almost falling and the motor stopped.

 

[mohnashaat]

Is is spinning to fast when it starts to drain and suddenly it stops (it is not supposed to) may be and overload ?

is the Belt Q181623 equivalent to the Q182625 ? this can explain every thing if the belt is quiet shorter

 

[philr]

Mohamed,

I have no experience with any Westinghouse washers but from what I understood in the previous posts in this thread (including yours), the solenoid releases the tension on the belt at the beginning of the drain cycle to remove some strain on the motor. 

 

From what you say, once the tub is empty, the solenoid de-energizes and the belt has more tension for the spin, which would be normal (I guess!). 

 

If the solenoid has no effect, maybe the belt with the different number is just too small! Not releasing the tension on the belt at the beginning of the drain cycle could cause an overload... On some washers that have a clutch to slow the spin speed at the beginning of the spin-drain cycle, if the clutch fails to slip, it often overloads the motor which causes it to stop for a few minutes. In your washer, I guess the solenoid that loosens the belt acts as a clutch (like the clutch in my cheap lawn tractor which just releases the tension on the drive belt!). 

 

 

[mohnashaat]

Thanks Phil, i think this is the conclusion the belt is may be few millimeters too short.

Some one told me that the motor can be shifted to adjust the belt ?

 

[philr]

Oh, I guess that's another possibility! If there adjustment slots for the motor. Keep us informed!  Do you already have the matching dryer for your washer?

 

[mohnashaat]

i'll try this possibility but there a nut in a very narrow place.

no i don`t have the dryer,i saw you posted one in Kijiji but i am in Quebec city + i don't have space for it.

By the way i am not a vintage washer collector, this is supposed to be my everyday and only washer, i moved last month to this apartment and the washer was already there, and i am asking myself is it worth all the time and energy that i am spending ? for me it is a challenge to make it work but my wife is telling me why are you repairing a washer older than you !!!

 

[DADoES]

 
Why would there be a need for the mechanism to incorporate the solenoid and idler pulley and trigger it in the cycle sequence as you describe -- engage at end of wash or rinse agitation when the tub is full, disengage at near-empty when the water has drained (presumably when the water level pressure switch resets) -- if the machine is to function as a spin-drain unit?  Seems to me it's intended to be a neutral drain system.

 

[mohnashaat]

Well i can say it is a mix of neutral and spin drain, check the video above, when it is time to drain the solenoid engages and the belt is lquite loosen, so u can see the tub full of water starting to rotate (due to the friction of the belt) and when the water is almost drained the solenoid deengages and it spins.

I think there is two reasons, first as it happemed to me if it spins while full of water , the water is falling from the top, second when the tun if full of water and clothes it is a huge load to the motor to start spinning

I don't how neutral drain can be done with the belt monted on both pulleys

 

[brisnat81]

I have one of these style of machines, and the tub should be stationary while the neutral drain is occurring.

If the tub is moving, then its the wrong belt, or its installed correctly.

The belt sits there loosely against both pulleys during the drain and the motor pulley spins, but the belt isn't tight enough that it grabs.

When the tub is nearly empty the solenoid turns off and the belt tights and starts to spin.

 

[jons1077]

Westinghouse belt replacement

The green Westinghouse washer in the YouTube video is mine and I had to do a belt replacement in it for the exact same reason. The washer sat unused for too long and the belt layers eventually split apart. I did find a new replacement belt known as a "clutch belt" and purchased two of them so I know I have an extra stored somewhere. When I find it I will post the brand and model number. According to my repair manual the belt model number is Q-63260 and is a V-belt. I just can't remember where I purchased mine.

I went ahead and scanned a couple of pages from the service manual I have. My machine dates from about the mid 1970s, has a fast agitation and a spin drain. The belt tightness can be adjusted by selecting a slot on the idler spring adjusting link. I tried to place it in the same spot that it was originally in. If it's throwing water too fast then loosen it a notch or two. FYI, it is normal for this machine to have a slight "hot belt" smell during the spin drain. That's just the friction on the belt which is what it's supposed to do.

Hopefully these scanned pages will help a little.

 

[jons1077]

[No message]

 

[combo52]

Early 70s WH TL Washers

The pre-pump solenoid was not used on many machines that were sold in the US, in almost 40 years of repairing appliances I think I have seen one. It was too bad that they did not go to the extra cost of adding this solenoid to all the washers as it would have saved a lot of belts, as Jon mentioned the belt in these washers actually gets hot and smells a little as this machine struggles to pump out the water and spin at the same time.

The ONLY REASON why any TL perforated basket washer does a spin drain is that it is CHEAPER to build a machine that does not need to do an extra function of a neutral drain. Westinghouse apparently went to the extra cost of building ND machines for markets where clothes dryers were not as common, this was done to minimize complaints of lint and dirt being redeposited on clean clothing.

 

[mohnashaat]

Hi Jon,

Yes i saw your post at first and then found your video in my long searches about my belt. But in your post you said that the belt model number is Q181623 which is exactly same as mine, i found one Q181625 sold as an equivalent but after several trial i came into conclusion that is is quite shorter so that when the solenoid is engaged and the belt is supposed to be loosen. I didn't find yet another one so i'll try to move the motor.

And that you very much for the manual.

@ John (combo52) thanks for the info, but in conclusion is it a good washer ?

 

[combo52]

Early 70s WH TL Washers

Is it a good washer?

For an everyday driver, No, your Wife is correct.

 

[mohnashaat]

I pushed the motor to its maximum with the four slots (as in jons phtos), it is now better,a technician told me that the idler solenoid should be in midway, it is about 25% , so when the solenoid is engaged the belt isn't loosen as it should be, but better than before, i completed a full normal cycle but with minimum load, no overload , quite speedy spin when draining because the belt isn't loosen enough, so little water falls.

may be because the belt is still new, may be after several use it will fits more and will be less tightened.

But the spin is really noisy, don`t know if i close the back and put it in its place it will be better. i have neighbors in the floor in the bottom floor !!