bradfordwhite
Well-known member
Wow, you really had your hands full there. That's ambitious.
A 1958 GE, brought back to life!
- Thread starter swestoyz
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Drama solution - round one
Thanks for the kind words, everyone!
Come early February I had two problems to solve:
1. Come up with a solution for the basket hub
2. Figure out a way to power the transmission without the original clutch
Tonight I'll tackle problem number one. In the photo groupings I shared earlier I did try putting hub clamp back on the basket hub to see if there was enough meat left within the casting to safely hold the hub on the shaft. While there probably was enough material to get by it wasn't something I was comfortable with. This, on top of the busted agitator bearing mount (or sleeve, not sure what this feature would officially be called). I contemplated the idea of using some JB Weld to fasten the bearing mount back to the hub, but still was weary of then coating the hub clamp with JB Weld.
At this point I reached out to friends to see if any spares were around knowing full well that this wasn't going to be a part that many would have spares of. Concurrently, I started a nationwide search to parts houses, etc., to see if anyone had a lead on some old GE parts. After several failed attempts I got extremely lucky and found one place that probably had the last NOS WH17X41 basket hub left on a shelf. I naturally bought the part immediately, along with a few other solid tub GE parts. With the NOS hub secured it was time to properly remove the hub.
Thanks for the kind words, everyone!
Come early February I had two problems to solve:
1. Come up with a solution for the basket hub
2. Figure out a way to power the transmission without the original clutch
Tonight I'll tackle problem number one. In the photo groupings I shared earlier I did try putting hub clamp back on the basket hub to see if there was enough meat left within the casting to safely hold the hub on the shaft. While there probably was enough material to get by it wasn't something I was comfortable with. This, on top of the busted agitator bearing mount (or sleeve, not sure what this feature would officially be called). I contemplated the idea of using some JB Weld to fasten the bearing mount back to the hub, but still was weary of then coating the hub clamp with JB Weld.
At this point I reached out to friends to see if any spares were around knowing full well that this wasn't going to be a part that many would have spares of. Concurrently, I started a nationwide search to parts houses, etc., to see if anyone had a lead on some old GE parts. After several failed attempts I got extremely lucky and found one place that probably had the last NOS WH17X41 basket hub left on a shelf. I naturally bought the part immediately, along with a few other solid tub GE parts. With the NOS hub secured it was time to properly remove the hub.
Not having a garage bench with a vise really is a short coming. Thankfully the local Makers Space came to the rescue. On a Saturday afternoon I brought the transmission to the shop along with a hand held torch, some emery cloth, a pipe wrench, and a dead blow hammer.
With the hub loose from twisting back and forth using the pipe wrench, the dead blow hammer can be used to smack the flange while gripping the upper half of the hub with your hand and twisting it upwards along the spin shaft.
It was an ugly process, but with time, a bottle of WD-40, some heat from the torch, and some patience, it finally worked past the rust. Success!
I highly recommend using a dead blow hammer for this process. The soft molded rubber of the hammer face will not distort the item you're impacting and it is loaded inside with ballast that will shift during the swing to provide some extra oomph. I believe the hammer I used was the four pound version from Harbor Freight, but you can get them at Menards, etc.
With the hub loose from twisting back and forth using the pipe wrench, the dead blow hammer can be used to smack the flange while gripping the upper half of the hub with your hand and twisting it upwards along the spin shaft.
It was an ugly process, but with time, a bottle of WD-40, some heat from the torch, and some patience, it finally worked past the rust. Success!
I highly recommend using a dead blow hammer for this process. The soft molded rubber of the hammer face will not distort the item you're impacting and it is loaded inside with ballast that will shift during the swing to provide some extra oomph. I believe the hammer I used was the four pound version from Harbor Freight, but you can get them at Menards, etc.
Next up - pop the bottom cover from the transmission. First, take the pulley nut, washer and seal, as well as the spring clutch and hub off from the shaft.
The manual is pretty vague about the next step of removing the bearing frame assembly. If you find yourself in this position you'll quickly find that it's not a walk in the park.
I found that if I heated up the bearing frame assembly and the outside of the housing with a torch, and then tapped with a solid straight blade screw driver, I could get it to start moving. The key is to keep the bearing frame from moving as you pry against the housing. I used a small screw driver to hold both in place as I worked along the edge with the screw driver. Eventually it will pop off.
And yuck. There is just a bit of water in the oil. And what's this? Part of the snubber band has broken off? And why does the snubber look so funny?
The manual is pretty vague about the next step of removing the bearing frame assembly. If you find yourself in this position you'll quickly find that it's not a walk in the park.
I found that if I heated up the bearing frame assembly and the outside of the housing with a torch, and then tapped with a solid straight blade screw driver, I could get it to start moving. The key is to keep the bearing frame from moving as you pry against the housing. I used a small screw driver to hold both in place as I worked along the edge with the screw driver. Eventually it will pop off.
And yuck. There is just a bit of water in the oil. And what's this? Part of the snubber band has broken off? And why does the snubber look so funny?
After some parts cleaning I did some test runs to see if the snubber could indeed be reused. From what I can tell it may have come in contact with the snubber band while the tub was still spinning on agitation. I could have happened in 1958, 1968, or during my dry run test.
Either way, it did hold the tub stationary at one point so I figured it would probably continue to do the job. The idea of trying to make one did cross my mind, but to attempt to emulate the weight of the snubber and ensuring that the pitch of the fins was enough to have it glide through the oil during spin was not a risk I was willing to take.
Either way, it did hold the tub stationary at one point so I figured it would probably continue to do the job. The idea of trying to make one did cross my mind, but to attempt to emulate the weight of the snubber and ensuring that the pitch of the fins was enough to have it glide through the oil during spin was not a risk I was willing to take.
The beauty of GE
One of the great things about GE automatic washers is parts interchange, or more specifically the ability to use seals from the last of the perforated tub machines built in 1995 all the way back to the original AW6 in 1947.
From top to bottom, the following seals can be used on all GE transmissions -
Agitator shaft seal - WH8X291 (you do not need to use the extension for the large capacity tubs if the seal was a kit, designated as WH8X291K)
Drive tub seal assembly - WH8X318 (bellows style, for metal housing transmissions, seal between the basket hub and housing top)
Ring seal - WH8X242 (rubber, between the bearing frame assembly and housing)
The single pulley, internal snubber style solid tub transmission from 1956 to 1959 requires two lip seals. One for the bearing frame and one for the pulley. Neither are available as replacements from GE, however they can be substituted for generic replacements. Yay! (The 1960 transmission uses the same seal as the later transmissions, WH8X281)
WH8X184 - tube seal (upper, within the bearing frame assemlby) (1 ea)
SKF - 13537 - Grease Seal (Grainger 35UA53)
WH8X185 - tube seal (lower, within the pulley) (1 ea)
SKF - 13534 - Grease Seal (Grainger 35UA51)
One of the great things about GE automatic washers is parts interchange, or more specifically the ability to use seals from the last of the perforated tub machines built in 1995 all the way back to the original AW6 in 1947.
From top to bottom, the following seals can be used on all GE transmissions -
Agitator shaft seal - WH8X291 (you do not need to use the extension for the large capacity tubs if the seal was a kit, designated as WH8X291K)
Drive tub seal assembly - WH8X318 (bellows style, for metal housing transmissions, seal between the basket hub and housing top)
Ring seal - WH8X242 (rubber, between the bearing frame assembly and housing)
The single pulley, internal snubber style solid tub transmission from 1956 to 1959 requires two lip seals. One for the bearing frame and one for the pulley. Neither are available as replacements from GE, however they can be substituted for generic replacements. Yay! (The 1960 transmission uses the same seal as the later transmissions, WH8X281)
WH8X184 - tube seal (upper, within the bearing frame assemlby) (1 ea)
SKF - 13537 - Grease Seal (Grainger 35UA53)
WH8X185 - tube seal (lower, within the pulley) (1 ea)
SKF - 13534 - Grease Seal (Grainger 35UA51)
With all the seals procured, it was time to assemble the transmission. I did some prep work on the drive tube by coating the rust with some POR-15.
First off, the thrust washer is installed under the spring retainer. GE mentions that this is meant to act as a brake when the motor/clutch has stopped running. I can only imagine how long it would take to actually stop spinning if this wasn't in place. Funny also that this is only used on the 1956, 1957, 1958, and early 1959 transmissions. Otherwise it isn't used on the early two belt transmissions and isn't needed on the revised 1960 and later improved brake transmissions. The spring retainer was full of disgusting gunk. This alone was a great reason to completely disassemble the transmission.
With the drive tub push through the housing, the face seal for the WH8X318 seal can be installed. I did add a dab of 40w oil to the carbon face and had the curved edge of the o-ring face inside the face seal. Also, when the bellows was driven into the housing I did add a dab of Permatex No 2 to the housing. This was the only seal GE didn't call for any additional compound. But, better to be safe than sorry. Be careful if you do add some sealer to not allow it to get into the oiling holes in the housing. That bearing will need all the help it can get!
Lastly, and not easily, the basket hub is installed with the bar against the bar flat on the drive tube. Because of the spring pressure this isn't a treat considering the POR-15 made it somewhat difficult to position the hub on the shaft. A new bar clamp was used along with some grade 8 bolts from the hardware store.
With the drive tub push through the housing, the face seal for the WH8X318 seal can be installed. I did add a dab of 40w oil to the carbon face and had the curved edge of the o-ring face inside the face seal. Also, when the bellows was driven into the housing I did add a dab of Permatex No 2 to the housing. This was the only seal GE didn't call for any additional compound. But, better to be safe than sorry. Be careful if you do add some sealer to not allow it to get into the oiling holes in the housing. That bearing will need all the help it can get!
Lastly, and not easily, the basket hub is installed with the bar against the bar flat on the drive tube. Because of the spring pressure this isn't a treat considering the POR-15 made it somewhat difficult to position the hub on the shaft. A new bar clamp was used along with some grade 8 bolts from the hardware store.
Next, the WH8X291 agitator shaft seal was installed. I used an aluminum vacuum hose extension from an Electrolux, a 2x4, and the dead blow hammer to drive the metal ring on the drive tube, and a piece of 3/4 inch copper tubing to carefully drive the top seal on the agitator shaft. GE did call for their sealing compound for the metal ring in the 1973 service manual, so more Permatex No 2 as used.
This seal did not come with any lubrication and squeaked upon install. Off it went and another seal was installed with some Maytag center seal grease on the inside of the sealing surface. All better! The threads for the agitator cap were chased with a 7/16-24 die.[this post was last edited: 4/30/2020-22:54]
This seal did not come with any lubrication and squeaked upon install. Off it went and another seal was installed with some Maytag center seal grease on the inside of the sealing surface. All better! The threads for the agitator cap were chased with a 7/16-24 die.[this post was last edited: 4/30/2020-22:54]
With the top side done the transmission can be flipped over and filled with 54 oz of 40w oil. The only place I found locally that still stocks it was Fleet Farm. Better grab a few extra bottles for the future.
54 oz is roughly a quart and a half. The new WH8X242 ring seal was installed with the groove facing up.
Thankfully, no leaks from the agitator shaft seal or drive tube seal assembly!
Don't forget to install the WH1X1163 collar over the bearing. It is keyed to fit the bearing retainer.
54 oz is roughly a quart and a half. The new WH8X242 ring seal was installed with the groove facing up.
Thankfully, no leaks from the agitator shaft seal or drive tube seal assembly!
Don't forget to install the WH1X1163 collar over the bearing. It is keyed to fit the bearing retainer.
When the transmission was disassembled the snubber lining showed that it was tired. Partially missing and compressed from years of force from the band, it wouldn't have held the tub at all during agitation.
I used the nifty 70-B Snap On vacuum grip pliers that the 1958 Product Man calls for when removing the band, rather than the vice grip and screw driver the service manual calls for. Much, much easier and doesn't put stress on the band. Make sure to put a coating of 40w oil the bearing frame and the lining prior to install, per the recommendations of the Product Man revisions.
A shout out to our very own Jetcone for researching and getting new snubber linings made!
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?45799[this post was last edited: 4/30/2020-23:14]
I used the nifty 70-B Snap On vacuum grip pliers that the 1958 Product Man calls for when removing the band, rather than the vice grip and screw driver the service manual calls for. Much, much easier and doesn't put stress on the band. Make sure to put a coating of 40w oil the bearing frame and the lining prior to install, per the recommendations of the Product Man revisions.
A shout out to our very own Jetcone for researching and getting new snubber linings made!
https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?45799[this post was last edited: 4/30/2020-23:14]
With the new lining installed, the bearing frame assembly can now be fastened to the housing and the spring clutch and hub are inserted into place, along with the tube over the clutch spring.
The new WH8X184 and WH8X185 seals were driven into their corresponding parts with a coating of Permatex No 2 on the outside of the seals, per GE's recommendations.
With the tube in place the pulley can be placed over the shaft. It is a dance to get the pulley in place and hold the shaft so that it goes to the opening in the pulley.
I cut a new rubber gasket and used a hole punch for the center hole. I don't recall the size, but it looks like it might be about 3/8". With the rubber seal in place the washer can be installed, along with the nut.
With the transmission now fully assembled, it can be flipped back over and set for a few days to ensure that it does not leak and install the drive block.
So, drama number one was solved with complete luck, and the transmission is fully assembled with no leaks! Tune in tomorrow to find out how drama number two was solved!
Until next time!
The new WH8X184 and WH8X185 seals were driven into their corresponding parts with a coating of Permatex No 2 on the outside of the seals, per GE's recommendations.
With the tube in place the pulley can be placed over the shaft. It is a dance to get the pulley in place and hold the shaft so that it goes to the opening in the pulley.
I cut a new rubber gasket and used a hole punch for the center hole. I don't recall the size, but it looks like it might be about 3/8". With the rubber seal in place the washer can be installed, along with the nut.
With the transmission now fully assembled, it can be flipped back over and set for a few days to ensure that it does not leak and install the drive block.
So, drama number one was solved with complete luck, and the transmission is fully assembled with no leaks! Tune in tomorrow to find out how drama number two was solved!
Until next time!
What was the last year of the flo flume at 12 o'clock position? I remember my grandmother having a white GE when I was very little but I can't remember the control panel. She replaced it in 1974 when I was 3 with a new green FF. My mother told me the white one was Grandmother's first automatic washer. It very well could have been this model. I think my mother said she was in her teens when Grandmother got her first automatic. Mother was born in 1945.
I am impressed.
I used to wonder why GE transmissions had their own rebuilding centers. Beginning to get a clue. Wow.
What a beautiful set - thank you for sharing all the details!
I used to wonder why GE transmissions had their own rebuilding centers. Beginning to get a clue. Wow.
What a beautiful set - thank you for sharing all the details!
What was the last year of the flo flume at 12 o'clock position? - I believe this was carried through at least the V, 1961 models. In '62 it looks to have moved over to the 1 o'clock position.
Drama solution - round two
While the transmission was humming along, the research phase of figuring out how to power the washer began. Last summer I stumbled upon a fairly decent stash of GE parts so I had some spare motor and clutch parts from the defunct dealer. Most of the parts were used but they were helpful in getting things figured out.
One of the motors had the top plate still attached from an early 70's GE, and side by side the motor mounting holes lined up just fine. How does it look installed in the washer with the solenoid attached?
Not too bad! Plenty of clearance between the frame, the belt, and the transmission.
While the transmission was humming along, the research phase of figuring out how to power the washer began. Last summer I stumbled upon a fairly decent stash of GE parts so I had some spare motor and clutch parts from the defunct dealer. Most of the parts were used but they were helpful in getting things figured out.
One of the motors had the top plate still attached from an early 70's GE, and side by side the motor mounting holes lined up just fine. How does it look installed in the washer with the solenoid attached?
Not too bad! Plenty of clearance between the frame, the belt, and the transmission.
My preference was to use the original motor, if at all possible. With the 70's plate lined up over the 1958 plate, I could see that there was enough material on the 50's plate to drill holes for the solenoid shifter bracket.
After marking through the 70's plate, holes were drilled and I had a perfect match! Both styles of brackets could now be used.
After marking through the 70's plate, holes were drilled and I had a perfect match! Both styles of brackets could now be used.
While I had plenty of used parts on hand the decision was made to just buy a new two speed clutch assembly. They are plentiful and you get brand new parts with new bearings. PN WH49X265
When the new clutch arrived I had to laugh as it had a bent finger on the newer style carrier plate from shipping damage, similar to one of the used parts I had. Ended up straightening it out.
With the new carrier plate installed on the 1958 motor I got a sense of how high I needed to raise the solenoid shifter bracket. A trip to Menards I grabbed a handful of nylon spacers of various sizes. I don't recall which size did the trick, but this worked out great.
GE has quite the procedure drawn out on how to adjust the shifter. I made sure I had the space between the lock-in shoe and the arm locked in, as well as the height of the arm free spinning over the shifter when the shifter was resting.
When the new clutch arrived I had to laugh as it had a bent finger on the newer style carrier plate from shipping damage, similar to one of the used parts I had. Ended up straightening it out.
With the new carrier plate installed on the 1958 motor I got a sense of how high I needed to raise the solenoid shifter bracket. A trip to Menards I grabbed a handful of nylon spacers of various sizes. I don't recall which size did the trick, but this worked out great.
GE has quite the procedure drawn out on how to adjust the shifter. I made sure I had the space between the lock-in shoe and the arm locked in, as well as the height of the arm free spinning over the shifter when the shifter was resting.
With the revised motor/shifter figured out the test fit was perfect in the machine, but it dawned on me that it would be extremely difficult to adjust the shifter if needed with the outer tub installed. Several tests were done to ensure it was positioned properly before the outer tub was installed.
Assembly of the clutch itself wasn't a huge deal, but getting the right combination of parts was a PITA. The clutch kit doesn't come with instructions so if you're doing what I'm doing and trying to combine 1958 parts with a 1970's-1990's clutch, it can be tricky.
Long story short, ditch ALL parts from the 50's clutch. The only part you'd be ok reusing would be the secondary/outer drum. Use the parts from the kit, and assemble in this order. Do NOT put any spacers between the leaf spring and the primary drum bottom bearing, OR any spacers above the fiber washer and the outer/secondary drum. I tried all combinations of parts - the original spring load primary clutch shoes, new radial bearings on the primary drum, different coupler plates, etc. This was the best combination.
Long story short, ditch ALL parts from the 50's clutch. The only part you'd be ok reusing would be the secondary/outer drum. Use the parts from the kit, and assemble in this order. Do NOT put any spacers between the leaf spring and the primary drum bottom bearing, OR any spacers above the fiber washer and the outer/secondary drum. I tried all combinations of parts - the original spring load primary clutch shoes, new radial bearings on the primary drum, different coupler plates, etc. This was the best combination.
