A gripe about dishwasher detergent packs
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perc-o-prince
Well-known member
I've never liked them and have seen where some of the thicker plastic in the corners of the pods have gotten stuck in the spray arm nozzles!
Chuck
Chuck
As I've mentioned in previous discussion of packs/pacs/pods, Cascade Platinum (admittedly the only product I've tried) causes excess sudsing to the point the pump gets starved for water. The spray arm rotation gets impaired by the layer of suds.
Packs/pods won't fit in DishDrawer detergent dispensers, and the dispenser is a flow-through design which is flushed by the incoming water during fill so a pod wouldn't fully dissolve in there. Placing it on a side shelf or in the silverware basket, some of it does dissolve in the prewash ... usually not all so there is some left to carry into the main wash period.
I subscribe to his channel....
....and watched this video yesterday.
I was amazed how he lifted up the entire dishwasher and put it on the table.
It goes to show how "plastic-y" these newer machines are.
I doubt that he could have lifted a Kitchenaid KDS-18 onto a table by himself!
I use Cascade Complete powder in my 26 year-old Maytag. No pre-rinsing when loading dishes.
They always come out sparkling clean.
Pods for dishes and laundry are just another "gimmick" to try and sell more product.
I'll never use them.
....and watched this video yesterday.
I was amazed how he lifted up the entire dishwasher and put it on the table.
It goes to show how "plastic-y" these newer machines are.
I doubt that he could have lifted a Kitchenaid KDS-18 onto a table by himself!
I use Cascade Complete powder in my 26 year-old Maytag. No pre-rinsing when loading dishes.
They always come out sparkling clean.
Pods for dishes and laundry are just another "gimmick" to try and sell more product.
I'll never use them.
I usually don’t use Dishwasher pods either. If I do, I usually always have some regular powder or gel to use in the prewash. I also noticed that cascade pods caused a lot of foaming when I tried them. Some dishwashers make having a proper prewash difficult though. My Bosch did not have a prewash detent, the manual suggested if you wanted to you could add a teaspoon of detergent at the bottom of the door. The cycle sequence always started with a line purge which was just powerful enough to flush out any detergent left on the door, so you had to wait until the purge was over and the 2nd full began for the first wash. Also the apartment GE I’m using now only has a 50 second circulation on the first fill, which is a waste of detergent in my opinion. Again you have to let it drain and add the detergent into the 2nd fill.
Agreed that it would have been interesting to see him dissect a vintage machine, like an 18 series KitchenAid. Since it had a triple wash dispenser one has even more control and washing power, and lifting the damn thing is a 2 person job for sure.
Agreed that it would have been interesting to see him dissect a vintage machine, like an 18 series KitchenAid. Since it had a triple wash dispenser one has even more control and washing power, and lifting the damn thing is a 2 person job for sure.
I have an AEG now with the power lift basket that replaced my F&P Dishdrawers. I find that the wash cycles have been dumbed down. Even on the longest and most intensive cycle the first rinse is very short and it doesn't even heat the water. I still put in liquid detergent for the pre-wash, but some of it remains undissolved on the bottom of the machine after the first purge when the cycle progresses to the second fill for the main wash and opens the detergent cup.
Near 11k comments and half a million views, all in 2 days.. He's doing well.
An informative, enjoyable video; the dishwasher-hoist an attention-grabber.
However, I wonder if he ever opened the detergent compartment during the first drain to find water had breached the main wash's seal, partially dissolving the pac and releasing some its contents into the prewash? At least that’s what happens in my Whirlpool and the GE that preceded it.
That used to bother me, as a couple of dishwashers I’ve owned—including the current 2017 Whirlpool—had both a prewash and a rinse prior to the main wash, meaning quite a bit of the pac’s cleaning power was down the drain before the main wash.
I’d always imagined the pac dropped, dry and completely intact, into the main wash; but as long as the dishes and cookware emerge completely clean at cycle’s end—which they do—I’m happy.[this post was last edited: 12/24/2020-08:07]
However, I wonder if he ever opened the detergent compartment during the first drain to find water had breached the main wash's seal, partially dissolving the pac and releasing some its contents into the prewash? At least that’s what happens in my Whirlpool and the GE that preceded it.
That used to bother me, as a couple of dishwashers I’ve owned—including the current 2017 Whirlpool—had both a prewash and a rinse prior to the main wash, meaning quite a bit of the pac’s cleaning power was down the drain before the main wash.
I’d always imagined the pac dropped, dry and completely intact, into the main wash; but as long as the dishes and cookware emerge completely clean at cycle’s end—which they do—I’m happy.[this post was last edited: 12/24/2020-08:07]
Maybe I`m a bit biased in my European point of view, but I don`t see a big difference in the guy`s with or without detergent in the prewash comparison other than a negative impact on the environment from the second shot of detergent.
I`m surprised at how much the plain water washed off.
Don`t know anyone personally who filled both cups or put a little extra on the door even when powders were the only format of automatic DW detergent. Maybe it just didn`t make much sense to do so in a cold 5 minute prewash cycle of early European DW.
There seems to be a benefit when dealing with particularly greasy dishes, though.
But a drop or two of regular hand dishwashing soap on the DW door will do.
Besides, large amounts of grease and oil should always be wiped off with a paper towel or similar before loading the DW.
I`m surprised at how much the plain water washed off.
Don`t know anyone personally who filled both cups or put a little extra on the door even when powders were the only format of automatic DW detergent. Maybe it just didn`t make much sense to do so in a cold 5 minute prewash cycle of early European DW.
There seems to be a benefit when dealing with particularly greasy dishes, though.
But a drop or two of regular hand dishwashing soap on the DW door will do.
Besides, large amounts of grease and oil should always be wiped off with a paper towel or similar before loading the DW.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
You should NEVER
Put regular handwashing detergent in the dishwasher, no matter how little you use. The risk of a Bobby Brady is too great.
Put regular handwashing detergent in the dishwasher, no matter how little you use. The risk of a Bobby Brady is too great.
DW Detergent Pods
Generally work very well, but to get the best results I always put some regular [ Non-Pod ] detergent in the first open cup or put some on the door. This is very important if the load is greasy or has a lot of food soil.
I would never waste the time or paper to wipe grease off a pan, yes I drain large amounts of grease in a jar that gets recycled at a local restaurant with their used grease, but small amounts of grease in a DW gets emulsified with the detergent and actually breaks down very well whether in a septic tank or public sewer system.
Reply #1, Hi Rich, the plastic bits all of us techs have seen trapped in DW wash arms is not from detergent pods, current plastic-like coatings dissolve completely, some of the older pods where in plastic warpers that you had to unwrap, these would cause problems if you failed to remove the warper completely.
John L.
Generally work very well, but to get the best results I always put some regular [ Non-Pod ] detergent in the first open cup or put some on the door. This is very important if the load is greasy or has a lot of food soil.
I would never waste the time or paper to wipe grease off a pan, yes I drain large amounts of grease in a jar that gets recycled at a local restaurant with their used grease, but small amounts of grease in a DW gets emulsified with the detergent and actually breaks down very well whether in a septic tank or public sewer system.
Reply #1, Hi Rich, the plastic bits all of us techs have seen trapped in DW wash arms is not from detergent pods, current plastic-like coatings dissolve completely, some of the older pods where in plastic warpers that you had to unwrap, these would cause problems if you failed to remove the warper completely.
John L.
Been using Finish Quantum Max tabs in the Bosch SHU43C for years. Works great, generally. Sometime I add a second pack to the cutlery basket if it's a very full and/or dirty load.
I tried some Costco/Kirkland pods a few years ago; they left a lot of deposit inside the tub. Don't know why. Might have been a drain pump issue too.
I tried some Costco/Kirkland pods a few years ago; they left a lot of deposit inside the tub. Don't know why. Might have been a drain pump issue too.
I've been using a teaspoon of powder on the door for years in my mom's Bosch dishwasher for years. That generation of Bosch dishwashers was notorious for grease deposits in the internal drain water path. Ours was clean even after years of heavy use.
Later, I used a drop of dishwashing liquid on the door of my own Bosch - never once had I an issue with suds. Granted, the loads were always full and dirty, so the squirt of detergent never had a chance to suds up.
Later, I used a drop of dishwashing liquid on the door of my own Bosch - never once had I an issue with suds. Granted, the loads were always full and dirty, so the squirt of detergent never had a chance to suds up.
I couldn't see any difference between the water washed vs. the load with some pre rinse detergent added because there wasn't any. He couldn't either so had to talk himself and his audience into seeing something that wasn't there to fit the video's purpose. We've been using pods for years and years with no problems whatsoever
I've never had issues with dishwsher detergent except for over foaming of Fairy (like Cascade) Pods and some detergents doing a poor job of removing tomato from plastic. Neither issue is anything to do with pods, just formulation.
Not sure that you really need a pre rinse with detergent. The key thing is the prewash is high pressure enough to clear as much debris off as possible. Most decent dishwashers can do that without any issues. The higher end machines genuinely have more powerful pumps, abilities to do variable speed drive and have better designs of jets and filters.
The filters on European type machines don’t need very regular cleaning unless you’re putting in huge volumes of food scrapings, which shouldn’t be going into any dishwasher. Those machines use a self cleaning filter with water drawn through multiple layers of mesh horizontally during the wash and the drain pump is connected to the bottom of the filter drawing water vertically, which will suck anything through that’s small enough to pass through the drain pump, which would include things like peas, rice, chopped food etc etc.
They also don’t pump ground food back into the wash water, which the grinder versions do.
I look into the filter on the Miele machine I have at the moment and it’s fairly rare to find much inside it. It really isn’t very frequent maintenue issue and I only very roughly scrape plates. I absolutely never pre rinse things.
How does that design of dishwasher he demonstrated heat the water, given the element isn’t immersed?
Older dishwashers here had an exposed element too, but they are usually immersed in the water during the cycle. Most modern machines have in-line heaters on the output from the pump that aren’t visible.
It also means there’s no issue with excessive heat in the drying cycle at the bottom rack or fire risks should some plastic item land on the element.
Not sure that you really need a pre rinse with detergent. The key thing is the prewash is high pressure enough to clear as much debris off as possible. Most decent dishwashers can do that without any issues. The higher end machines genuinely have more powerful pumps, abilities to do variable speed drive and have better designs of jets and filters.
The filters on European type machines don’t need very regular cleaning unless you’re putting in huge volumes of food scrapings, which shouldn’t be going into any dishwasher. Those machines use a self cleaning filter with water drawn through multiple layers of mesh horizontally during the wash and the drain pump is connected to the bottom of the filter drawing water vertically, which will suck anything through that’s small enough to pass through the drain pump, which would include things like peas, rice, chopped food etc etc.
They also don’t pump ground food back into the wash water, which the grinder versions do.
I look into the filter on the Miele machine I have at the moment and it’s fairly rare to find much inside it. It really isn’t very frequent maintenue issue and I only very roughly scrape plates. I absolutely never pre rinse things.
How does that design of dishwasher he demonstrated heat the water, given the element isn’t immersed?
Older dishwashers here had an exposed element too, but they are usually immersed in the water during the cycle. Most modern machines have in-line heaters on the output from the pump that aren’t visible.
It also means there’s no issue with excessive heat in the drying cycle at the bottom rack or fire risks should some plastic item land on the element.
When using dishsoap in the prewash you have to use common sense of course.
It`s not that hard to judge the oil level of dirty dishes and find the sweet spot where some emulsion happens without generating a suds problem.
Actually much easier than judging the perfect dose of laundry detergent because you normally can`t see what amount of body oils are trapped in the fibers.
Anyway my point was that DW pods or tabs work very well on their own and there`s no real difference in the video to see. The pancake batter bowl even looks worse after a prewash with detergent vs the one without.
Also never had a problem with clogged up waterways or airgaps in any DW ever, but this might be because anything that dirty that I wouldn`t like to put directly in a sink full of hot sudsy water doesn`t go in my DW without wiping off or even prerinsing when necessary.
But that`s only me. We all use our appliances differently and if a DW has to serve as a food waste disposer a single shot of pods or tabs may not be enough.
[this post was last edited: 12/25/2020-08:57]
It`s not that hard to judge the oil level of dirty dishes and find the sweet spot where some emulsion happens without generating a suds problem.
Actually much easier than judging the perfect dose of laundry detergent because you normally can`t see what amount of body oils are trapped in the fibers.
Anyway my point was that DW pods or tabs work very well on their own and there`s no real difference in the video to see. The pancake batter bowl even looks worse after a prewash with detergent vs the one without.
Also never had a problem with clogged up waterways or airgaps in any DW ever, but this might be because anything that dirty that I wouldn`t like to put directly in a sink full of hot sudsy water doesn`t go in my DW without wiping off or even prerinsing when necessary.
But that`s only me. We all use our appliances differently and if a DW has to serve as a food waste disposer a single shot of pods or tabs may not be enough.
[this post was last edited: 12/25/2020-08:57]
Yeah, methinks he's finding a distinction without a difference--I've never pulled my dishes out at 15 minutes to evaluate cleaning....I normally wait the assigned 2:10 to evaluate cleaning LOL. Every so often I'll find a fleck on a dish--I clean the filter every 5 washes or so (more out of morbid curiosity)...if it's been a realllly greasy load there's often a trace of grease on the filter components (Bosch) but normally slick as a whistle. There's definitely a difference between our Bosch in Detroit with softened city water and our GE with unsoftened desert hard water in our condo in Palm Springs, mostly on the sediment on the fine filter---the Bosch has a pleated metal filter, the GE has an unpleated plastic filter which has more sediment (probably limescale) in one wash than the Bosch in 5.
His video was a little long but for the most part he hit all the high points.
I have long been advising my friends that a small amount of detergent should be added to the first wash if one is using a pack in the main wash dispenser. It just makes sense to not waste that cycle by turning it into a prerinse.
A bit of gel in the sump and a Cascade Platinum pack in the dispenser works wonders for me. Somehow with my machine and water I don't have foaming problems that Glenn mentioned. The Finish Packs with the red power ball were a different story, they were like hand diswashing detergent. Those packs got the kitchen floor clean and shiny after the cleanup!
I have long been advising my friends that a small amount of detergent should be added to the first wash if one is using a pack in the main wash dispenser. It just makes sense to not waste that cycle by turning it into a prerinse.
A bit of gel in the sump and a Cascade Platinum pack in the dispenser works wonders for me. Somehow with my machine and water I don't have foaming problems that Glenn mentioned. The Finish Packs with the red power ball were a different story, they were like hand diswashing detergent. Those packs got the kitchen floor clean and shiny after the cleanup!
I'm strictly a Cascade Platinum pod user, no extra detergent and get outstanding results every time. Will not switch to any other product for daily use. I have been using some Finish gel I picked up cheap when I run the shelves and bins from the refrigerator through the DW and any odd things that are only slightly dirty.
