cphifer5115
Well-known member
ok thanks Gordon, that's what i was thinking but wasn't sure since I had never seen a lady kenmore like this one before.
Chris
Chris
A Lady emerges from The Pile
- Thread starter redcarpetdrew
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Kenny -
The Almond machine you sent me is the traditional '83 model, which has a full porcelain top and porcelain lid, and the double coated white basket. It is essentially the same as this machine otherwise.
There was one difference in the control panel between the 83 and the 85 - they are one digit different in part numbers on the parts schematic, but I haven't noticed what that difference is visually. I will have to compare the 85 to the 83 side by side and see if I can figure it out.
Chris -
A lot of folks haven't seen this machine before. It was pretty expensive and didn't appeal to everyone - something like $120 more than a 70 series. Had I bought one in July 1986 it was going to cost nearly $500 ($479 I believe). The Kenmore you have was the best selling of the entire 1983 line, and I'd venture a rough guess that there were maybe 4 or 5 to 1 of your model vs. the Lady, maybe even a greater margin. Of the 1983 line, there were about three models that were very common (my 70, your 70, and the entry 80) and a couple that were ultra-rare (the 60 and two of the other 80s). The Lady seems to have been well-produced in quantity but nothing like the popular 70-series models. I knew this machine from memories of it on the sales floor, but mostly because it was featured at the beginning of the laundry section of at least five editions of the Sears catalog.
Gordon[this post was last edited: 10/27/2010-21:40]
The Almond machine you sent me is the traditional '83 model, which has a full porcelain top and porcelain lid, and the double coated white basket. It is essentially the same as this machine otherwise.
There was one difference in the control panel between the 83 and the 85 - they are one digit different in part numbers on the parts schematic, but I haven't noticed what that difference is visually. I will have to compare the 85 to the 83 side by side and see if I can figure it out.
Chris -
A lot of folks haven't seen this machine before. It was pretty expensive and didn't appeal to everyone - something like $120 more than a 70 series. Had I bought one in July 1986 it was going to cost nearly $500 ($479 I believe). The Kenmore you have was the best selling of the entire 1983 line, and I'd venture a rough guess that there were maybe 4 or 5 to 1 of your model vs. the Lady, maybe even a greater margin. Of the 1983 line, there were about three models that were very common (my 70, your 70, and the entry 80) and a couple that were ultra-rare (the 60 and two of the other 80s). The Lady seems to have been well-produced in quantity but nothing like the popular 70-series models. I knew this machine from memories of it on the sales floor, but mostly because it was featured at the beginning of the laundry section of at least five editions of the Sears catalog.
Gordon[this post was last edited: 10/27/2010-21:40]
Gorgon, I vaguely remember this model being in those periodic sales ccatalogs mailed to homes and also in a couple of "bigger "books". What I remember is thinking why it didn't have a porceialin top & basket. Just seemed odd a Lady woulnd't have thoseThere were a couple of times it was included in the couple of near pages with the porcelain Lady. It did have a noticeable price difference. A budget Lady so to speak.
mickeyd
Well-known member
Jacques Cousteau, indeed, Uncle Bob!
Holy Crap, Andrew! This is un-frigging-believable! Today, Automatic Washer went underwater for the first time, and what a ride it was. Now that you've taken the plunge, we'll never be the same again. I've been down in the turbulence 3 times today, riding the wave, and I still can't believe it. You have the Special Effects Oscar sewn up, Andy.
In a lighter vein, did you know that there are washer-challenged people walking around who think agitators revolve rather than oscillate. I have spoken to such people. Obviously, they never wash at extra-lo. If they see this flick, they'll get it. Only the top goes round & round, not the bottom.
Neat how if you select Wash Only, Exact Medium level, Cottons, and Auto Temp, all chrome dials points perfect North when the load is done! Perfectionist Paradise.
Gordon, maybe the one digit difference is a fully marked water level selector--a wild guess!
AND......
What kind of agitator is in the 86 LK's you mention that don't have the Dual Action Agi?
Holy Crap, Andrew! This is un-frigging-believable! Today, Automatic Washer went underwater for the first time, and what a ride it was. Now that you've taken the plunge, we'll never be the same again. I've been down in the turbulence 3 times today, riding the wave, and I still can't believe it. You have the Special Effects Oscar sewn up, Andy.
In a lighter vein, did you know that there are washer-challenged people walking around who think agitators revolve rather than oscillate. I have spoken to such people. Obviously, they never wash at extra-lo. If they see this flick, they'll get it. Only the top goes round & round, not the bottom.
Neat how if you select Wash Only, Exact Medium level, Cottons, and Auto Temp, all chrome dials points perfect North when the load is done! Perfectionist Paradise.
Gordon, maybe the one digit difference is a fully marked water level selector--a wild guess!
AND......
What kind of agitator is in the 86 LK's you mention that don't have the Dual Action Agi?
1986 MECHANICAL CONTROL LKM WASHER
Congratulations on finding this washer its in great condition. I never felt this was a very rare model we saw a lot of these around here, I just ran a call on one last week that had a broken timer knob. The older lady that owned it just couldn't get over the fact that the knob actually broke after just 24 years of use, I tried to explain that it was just plastic and they would and do break. I think toward the end of BD washers that Sears didn't care that much about promoting the last of the BD machines so they cheapened them a little. There was certainly no shortage of white tubs or porcelain tops and lids these are just coatings that are sprayed on metal. But otherwise a very fun machine I especially loved the under shots during agitation I will look forward to more of these.
Congratulations on finding this washer its in great condition. I never felt this was a very rare model we saw a lot of these around here, I just ran a call on one last week that had a broken timer knob. The older lady that owned it just couldn't get over the fact that the knob actually broke after just 24 years of use, I tried to explain that it was just plastic and they would and do break. I think toward the end of BD washers that Sears didn't care that much about promoting the last of the BD machines so they cheapened them a little. There was certainly no shortage of white tubs or porcelain tops and lids these are just coatings that are sprayed on metal. But otherwise a very fun machine I especially loved the under shots during agitation I will look forward to more of these.
strongenough78
Well-known member
Sweet find and video!
Congrats on finding that beautiful Lady, and kudos to you for taking it underwater! You MUST make more underwater videos of other machines you have. A bunch of us are on the edge of our seats.
Congrats on finding that beautiful Lady, and kudos to you for taking it underwater! You MUST make more underwater videos of other machines you have. A bunch of us are on the edge of our seats.
zipdang
Well-known member
Gordon wrote: There was one difference in the control panel
I think the last LK model like this that I saw on the showroom floor in 1986 had a different control panel cap than the machine pictured above. While the top cap on Drew's machine pictured above has a textured-look print to it (kind of like a textured refrigerator door) I seem to remember the last new model I saw as having a tiny micro-grid pattern to it, like the very faint lines of a small graph paper pattern.
It was because of something like this that my parents chose to buy a DD washer instead of one of the remaining BD LK machines, despite the closeout deals to be had. The only dryers in stock were the new models to match the new DD washers, and they had the wood grain control panel caps. My mom didn't want to pair a wood grain capped dryer with a washer that didn't have the same look.
Is this possibly the control panel difference?
I think the last LK model like this that I saw on the showroom floor in 1986 had a different control panel cap than the machine pictured above. While the top cap on Drew's machine pictured above has a textured-look print to it (kind of like a textured refrigerator door) I seem to remember the last new model I saw as having a tiny micro-grid pattern to it, like the very faint lines of a small graph paper pattern.
It was because of something like this that my parents chose to buy a DD washer instead of one of the remaining BD LK machines, despite the closeout deals to be had. The only dryers in stock were the new models to match the new DD washers, and they had the wood grain control panel caps. My mom didn't want to pair a wood grain capped dryer with a washer that didn't have the same look.
Is this possibly the control panel difference?
mickeyd
Well-known member
PS: It was great to see your face, Andy,
at long last, albeit only a reflection. Very nice. Is this your virginal posting of it, or have I missed it, earlier on?
at long last, albeit only a reflection. Very nice. Is this your virginal posting of it, or have I missed it, earlier on?
David / Zipdang - I think you'll find that this machine has the tiny surface texturizing on the panel top too, at least it looks to in the first few photos that Andy provided. The two or three '83 models I have look similar anyway, but if they are different, that is very possibly the difference.
John / Combo52 - "There was certainly no shortage of white tubs or porcelain tops and lids these are just coatings that are sprayed on metal".
How do you know that John? Porcelain is more than a sprayed-on coating. Machinery and processes are involved in its application that can break down during production or be bottlenecked in scheduling. If mechanical equipment goes down for planned or unplanned reasons, manufacturers have to temporarily backlog an item, OR come up with a substitute. I have to deal with that myself from time to time at work.
I know for a fact that the powdercoating line(s) in 1985 and 1986 were down and over-scheduled several times, and 70-series machines had to be equipped with porcelain tops and lids that would otherwise not have them. This was done at higher unit cost to maintain plant output and to satisfy orders for specific series models. I have three such machines and they too have differences in their model numbers to account for the different parts used. Clyde ran on daily and weekend overtime frequently throughout the economic recovery of the mid 1980s, and it is very plausible that some of the workcenters within the plant could not keep up with output.
While it may be more likely that this model was planned as a gimicky price leader for promotions as Bob seems to agree, we don't know for sure. I have an '83 version that was made in week 25, so within ten weeks of this machine, and it has all the brochure items it's supposed to have.
Sears is fussy about their image on Kenmore laundry, and they continued marketing the Lady K with it's extra porcelain features for a number of years into the DD program. No way would they risk their image to a consumer just because they were getting sloppy when winding down the BDs. Sears took (and still does) their position in laundry appliance sales too seriously for that.
Gordon
John / Combo52 - "There was certainly no shortage of white tubs or porcelain tops and lids these are just coatings that are sprayed on metal".
How do you know that John? Porcelain is more than a sprayed-on coating. Machinery and processes are involved in its application that can break down during production or be bottlenecked in scheduling. If mechanical equipment goes down for planned or unplanned reasons, manufacturers have to temporarily backlog an item, OR come up with a substitute. I have to deal with that myself from time to time at work.
I know for a fact that the powdercoating line(s) in 1985 and 1986 were down and over-scheduled several times, and 70-series machines had to be equipped with porcelain tops and lids that would otherwise not have them. This was done at higher unit cost to maintain plant output and to satisfy orders for specific series models. I have three such machines and they too have differences in their model numbers to account for the different parts used. Clyde ran on daily and weekend overtime frequently throughout the economic recovery of the mid 1980s, and it is very plausible that some of the workcenters within the plant could not keep up with output.
While it may be more likely that this model was planned as a gimicky price leader for promotions as Bob seems to agree, we don't know for sure. I have an '83 version that was made in week 25, so within ten weeks of this machine, and it has all the brochure items it's supposed to have.
Sears is fussy about their image on Kenmore laundry, and they continued marketing the Lady K with it's extra porcelain features for a number of years into the DD program. No way would they risk their image to a consumer just because they were getting sloppy when winding down the BDs. Sears took (and still does) their position in laundry appliance sales too seriously for that.
Gordon
mickeyd
Well-known member
Missed one, G
"There are four curious models after the 1983s though listed in the WP catalog. I quickly figured out that three of them were the machines that Sears marketed with Toyota. These have 1984 model numbers (110.824xxxxx). They have different color woodgrain tops, woodgrain on the front of the panel too, silver instead of gold on the print, and no DA agitators."
As you well know, having a blast imagining what giant agitator replaced the DA in these four curious models. And even more, have we seen this agitator? It has to be a behemoth.
"There are four curious models after the 1983s though listed in the WP catalog. I quickly figured out that three of them were the machines that Sears marketed with Toyota. These have 1984 model numbers (110.824xxxxx). They have different color woodgrain tops, woodgrain on the front of the panel too, silver instead of gold on the print, and no DA agitators."
As you well know, having a blast imagining what giant agitator replaced the DA in these four curious models. And even more, have we seen this agitator? It has to be a behemoth.
Mikey -
Was just about to address that....The 1984 machines that were made for Toyota all had the Penta-Vane, a five-bladed straight vane agitator, and yes, it is rather large. It is very unassuming, but crazy powerful in these machines and I am not sure I really like the one I'm using right now - too much of too much most of the time. The user can definitely shorten agitate times with this agitator. I am coming to appreciate the DA and the Penta-Swirl much more.
G
Was just about to address that....The 1984 machines that were made for Toyota all had the Penta-Vane, a five-bladed straight vane agitator, and yes, it is rather large. It is very unassuming, but crazy powerful in these machines and I am not sure I really like the one I'm using right now - too much of too much most of the time. The user can definitely shorten agitate times with this agitator. I am coming to appreciate the DA and the Penta-Swirl much more.
G
cphifer5115
Well-known member
I can agree with Gordon about Sears. I used to work for Whirlpool til they closed our plant here in Jackson, TN. (Formaly a Maytag dishwasher plant til Whirlpool bought the Maytag Corp.) any shipments we did to sears had to have strit audits preformed on every single unit shipped out or we got fined thousands of dollars.
And I so wish I had been born ten years earlier I could have been working for Whirlpool in the 80's at the Clyde plant raking in all that overtime that Gordon mentioned they worked.
And I so wish I had been born ten years earlier I could have been working for Whirlpool in the 80's at the Clyde plant raking in all that overtime that Gordon mentioned they worked.
Excellent camera work! I can say it has always been my dream since about 4 years old to see the "fins" (as I called them back in the day) in action. The only chance I got was during the rinse fill, with the clothes still stuck to the side of the tub. I would stare it down until it started agitating and I would maybe get a glimpse of one stroke 
I was always dissapointed. But AW and its wonderful members always make childhood dreams a reality 
I was always dissapointed. But AW and its wonderful members always make childhood dreams a reality
PORCELAIN FINISHES
Gordon I was talking about porcelain finishes, its not likley that there was any problem doing these at that time in history. WP was moving raplidly away from using fired on porcelain finishes at that time in appliance manufacturing. The outer tubs on DD washers were no longer porcelain as were the liners in refrigerators and freezers they had more than enough capacity to make porcelain tops and lids on washers if they wanted to. WP let quality take a back seat on the last 4 or 5 years of belt drive washers. The new DD washers had less than 1/2 the number of warranty problems than the last 4 years of the BD machines.
Gordon I was talking about porcelain finishes, its not likley that there was any problem doing these at that time in history. WP was moving raplidly away from using fired on porcelain finishes at that time in appliance manufacturing. The outer tubs on DD washers were no longer porcelain as were the liners in refrigerators and freezers they had more than enough capacity to make porcelain tops and lids on washers if they wanted to. WP let quality take a back seat on the last 4 or 5 years of belt drive washers. The new DD washers had less than 1/2 the number of warranty problems than the last 4 years of the BD machines.
John -
Manufacturing isn't always quite that simple. Just because a plant has theoretical capacity doesn't mean that it is 100% reliable, invulnerable to mechanical failure, or capable of full-time operation. It also doesn't mean that available capacity can always be utilized to deliver parts at a certain time. Anything I'm talking about above as to substitutions in parts one way or another is in temporary terms - not long term.
We have no idea what was going on at the plant at that time. For example, if an oven fails that fires the porcelain, no parts are going to come out until the oven is replaced or repaired. Clyde used to supply most of the structural parts for its machines. I believe this is still true today but to a lesser degree as some of the assemblies are out-sourced and some components are made in other factories. Porcelainizing the baskets and tops/lids was done in-house. Refrigerator or dishwasher changes to plastic liners and tubs theoretically would allow for more capacity for washer porcelain parts, but the fridge and dishwasher plants did not supply washer parts, and the lines would have to be re-tooled to do so.
Even so, if there was a shortage of hydrochloric acid, which is used to etch metal to prepare it for the porcelain coating, there would be a temporary decrease in overall porcelain capacity.
Also, once the refrigerator and dishwasher plants stopped requiring porcelain parts, the facilities used to do the porcelain work were likely decommissioned. These were old and very much not-environmental operations. HCL is nasty stuff, involved in a lot of government regulation. My belief is that once the fridge and dishwasher plants stopped needing these items, WP said "so long" to the porcelain operations none too soon.
G
Manufacturing isn't always quite that simple. Just because a plant has theoretical capacity doesn't mean that it is 100% reliable, invulnerable to mechanical failure, or capable of full-time operation. It also doesn't mean that available capacity can always be utilized to deliver parts at a certain time. Anything I'm talking about above as to substitutions in parts one way or another is in temporary terms - not long term.
We have no idea what was going on at the plant at that time. For example, if an oven fails that fires the porcelain, no parts are going to come out until the oven is replaced or repaired. Clyde used to supply most of the structural parts for its machines. I believe this is still true today but to a lesser degree as some of the assemblies are out-sourced and some components are made in other factories. Porcelainizing the baskets and tops/lids was done in-house. Refrigerator or dishwasher changes to plastic liners and tubs theoretically would allow for more capacity for washer porcelain parts, but the fridge and dishwasher plants did not supply washer parts, and the lines would have to be re-tooled to do so.
Even so, if there was a shortage of hydrochloric acid, which is used to etch metal to prepare it for the porcelain coating, there would be a temporary decrease in overall porcelain capacity.
Also, once the refrigerator and dishwasher plants stopped requiring porcelain parts, the facilities used to do the porcelain work were likely decommissioned. These were old and very much not-environmental operations. HCL is nasty stuff, involved in a lot of government regulation. My belief is that once the fridge and dishwasher plants stopped needing these items, WP said "so long" to the porcelain operations none too soon.
G
Lady Kenmore!
This is a beautiful machine. I always thought that all the TL models had a white tub at least that is the way I remember it. Also I think this is when they stopped using the Lady Kenmore name. (but maybe I'm wrong) Also before this series most TL kenmores had more up to date styling with panel lights and all. But this is definatly a keeper.
Best Wishes
Peter
This is a beautiful machine. I always thought that all the TL models had a white tub at least that is the way I remember it. Also I think this is when they stopped using the Lady Kenmore name. (but maybe I'm wrong) Also before this series most TL kenmores had more up to date styling with panel lights and all. But this is definatly a keeper.
Best Wishes
Peter
Since we mentioned the 1984 models a little bit, and MickeyD asked about the non-DA agitators on the three models, I thought I'd post a few pictures. Both of these I borrowed from Robert's 2008 thread "Memories of Estate Sale Saturdays".
The first is a 1984 Kenmore 400 washer. This is one of the Toyota washers. I don't want to say that these were never available in stores, but they were predominantly if not completely sourced as sales incentives for Toyota vehicles. There was two versions of this machine, one with a waterfall filter, and one with a self-cleaning filter. This is a single-speed machine. There was a very similar looking 70-series version that had two speeds, a pre-wash, an infinite water level, five temps, and two dispensers. Note the window lid was NOT a standard feature.
I hope this is ok to borrow Robert!
The woodgrain on the top is an oak color vs. walnut on the in-store black panel machines, and the on-panel woodgrain is not seen elsewhere in black panel Kenmores.
I have one of these machines - maybe it's time to dig it out?
The first is a 1984 Kenmore 400 washer. This is one of the Toyota washers. I don't want to say that these were never available in stores, but they were predominantly if not completely sourced as sales incentives for Toyota vehicles. There was two versions of this machine, one with a waterfall filter, and one with a self-cleaning filter. This is a single-speed machine. There was a very similar looking 70-series version that had two speeds, a pre-wash, an infinite water level, five temps, and two dispensers. Note the window lid was NOT a standard feature.
I hope this is ok to borrow Robert!The woodgrain on the top is an oak color vs. walnut on the in-store black panel machines, and the on-panel woodgrain is not seen elsewhere in black panel Kenmores.
I have one of these machines - maybe it's time to dig it out?
Here's the Penta-Vane agitator Mikey....
Again, I borrowed one of Robert's pictures as I can't locate one of my own at the moment....
Again, I borrowed one of Robert's pictures as I can't locate one of my own at the moment....
DUH! I hate hijacking other people's pictures....in my own garage is an in-service Penta-Vane. Like I said, DUH - take your own picture Gordon! So here it is:
