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launderess

launderess

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Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage
Here's me watching "A Christmas Story" on television during the past holiday season,(kind of hard to get away from it actually*LOL*), and something has always been on my mind. So decided to expose my query to the air.

Never having lived in nor seen a home heated with coal, am curious as to what was the semi-circular sliding thing Ralph's mother tries to sneak a shift down, all whilst the father is in the basement doing battle with a "clinker". Do many of the homes in the mid-west which once burned coal still have that thing?

Now I know what clinkers are from reading about steam power locomotives, but also wonder just what sort of *sound* they cause a coal buring furnace/boiler to make. In the scene Ralph's father orders the family to be quiet because he *hears* something is wrong.

Much obliged,

L.
 
Not familiar with the movie.

Nor am I familiar with what sound clinkers make. I think the sliding thing is the damper-control. By reducing the available flow of incoming combustion air to the furnace, the coal would burn more slowly and give off less heat. Sliding the lever the other way would cause the furnace to put out more heat but the coal would also burn more quickly.

Back then energy efficiency was a top concern because of the manual labor involved in heating. If you were lucky and had a mechanical stoker, you only had to clean the fire and make sure the hopper was full. If you had no stoker, you had to shovel coal every morning (the fire could pretty well tend to itself for the rest of the day).

Coal-fired steam boilers and steam heating systems had an interesting feature in the name of energy efficiency. The air vents on the radiators (single-pipe steam) or on the plumbing in the basement (single and two-pipe steam) let the air out of the system so the steam can get into the system. On modern air vents, they also serve as vacuum breakers. That way when the burner shuts off and the steam in the system condenses back to water and is not replaced, the vacuum that forms sucks air back into the system. On old coal boilers, the vents did not serve as vacuum breakers. Over the course of the day as the coal fire died down, the whole system would go into a vacuum. As the vacuum intensified, the water in the boiler would boil and make steam at lower and lower temperatures, helping to maintain a steady and even temperature throughout the building with very little fluctuation. By the end of the day, the water could boil at 150 degrees because of the vacuum.

Some folks on the heating website I follow have started experimenting with this technology in the name of modern energy efficiency. They are experimenting with a modern steam boiler and a modulating burner to mimic the dying down of the coal fire. I'm anxious to see how this works out.

Interesting,
Dave
 
Sorry I can't answer your questions but. . .

Just wanted to make it all about me.
Our house was built in 1935 and was originally coal heated. The old coal shute is still on the side of the house though heating was converted to gas long ago. We also have an original, yet very small fireplace in the living room. It wasn't until recently I found out that it was a coal fireplace and originally had a small stove much like a pellet stove that provided heat for the living room.

One of the other much larger homes in our historic district still has the massive coal furnace in the basement. The cool thing was these had no electric connections at all, it was totally convection to heat the three floors, and I understand it did a very good job at it too.

I will now end my hijack of your thread and look forward to the experts answers to your questions.
 
 In the Chicago area there were lots of homes that were once heated by coal furnaces. They were connected to a steam system.  So you burn the coal to heat the boiler.

 I have also seen 12 flat apartment buildings heated this way as well.

 One of my friends had a coal burning boiler that had this contraption that would automatically convey the coal from the coal bin to the boiler automatically.  He used to talk about clinkers. From what he said I took it that they made popping noises or similar.  He said it used to tick off his father if they got clinkers, which from what I understand is a by product of burning coal.
 And he mentioned that the clinkers had to be removed as too many of them could affect the way the furnace burns the coal.
 
My father's family home in Iowa originally had gravity hot air coal heat. There was a big cast iron grate between the dining room and the living room on the first floor. Under the grate was the dome of the furnace. That is where all of the heat entered the house. From the first floor to the basement, there were big return ducts that fed into the furnace jacket. There were ceiling grates that went between the first and second floor to "heat" the rooms up there, but lots of blankets were needed in cold weather. I remember when my step grandfather would have to deal with clinkers. Minerals would melt out of the coal and jam the grates so that ashes could not be shaken down. Lots of banging, muttering and huffing and puffing was involved. I was allowed to watch his care and feeding of the furnace from a safe distance. He stoked the fire in the morning and before going to bed.

That scene in the movie where the smoke came out of the vent does not mesh with any reality of a coal heating system that I am aware of.
 
My grandpa's home and every house I lived in before our current one was heated by coal and/or boilers. My grandpas house was heated by both. His workshop still has the coal chute window, as does the garage in the old butler's "apartment" behind the garage.

Yesterday we just poured concrete over a pad of firing bricks where the large boiler sat up until about 8 years ago when they removed it.

One of the new furnaces was put next to it. The house was so large that there are 2 furnaces. One in the basement and one in the attic.
________

There is actually still an oil line that ran to the boilers running outside to behind the garage and apartment to a very very large tank that carried oil. That tank was scraped long before I was born though.

The little coal doors are still visible around the basement. There are like 4 of them.
 
My grandparents had exactly the same system as Tomturbomatics - as a kid I was fascinated by the whole process, especially when the furnace door was opened to show the hot red glow of the coal. The dampers were controlled by two chains that came up through the floor and hooked onto these very old Victorian looking brackets in the kitchen. Clinkers were sworn at and grumbled about - my grandmother threatening to get another company with "better coal". The best part was in the evening - I'd go down to the basement with Grandad to check the furnace and he'd bank up the coal for the night. It was years later I learned that "checking the furnace" meant actually a good swig of scotch from the bottle he kept above the furnace and not much to do with the coal at all....
 
Same here with my grandparents house in Hamilton. They had the big round "octopus" coal furnace down in the cellar like basement. I remember the floor grates and the chains but never really knew what it was all about being so young.. only that I never wanted to go down there. Their house/street looked almost identical to the street the Bunkers lived on in All in The Family.
 
Shaking the Grates

We got rid of our coal furnace in 1960, so these memories are 50+ years old. Clinkers were the solid stuff left over after the coal had burned. I think in commercial power plants the same stuff is called "slag".

The furnace had a large lever on the front, with a vertical orientation. it was pivoted at the bottom, and a link protruding horizontally from the front of the furnace was connected maybe 1/4 of the way up. The lever was pulled towards you, then pushed back vertical, and that link made the grates move somehow I never did learn exactly. The ashes came down into the bottom third of the furnace from which they were removed with a shovel. Clinkers could jam up this and make the job more difficult.

The lever was maybe three or four feet in length, so when I was a little kid it was nearly as tall as I was. It was easily the biggest thing I could "operate". Also, it was only allowed when the fire was out. I think if you did it while the fire was burning, you would grind up the hot coals and thus waste them. Also maybe it was dangerous for the ash bin.
 
Yup, that slider thing is the damper control.

In the movie, Dad comes in grumbling about that 'damned Oldsmobile would freeze up on a hot day in the middle of the equator!' Then the furnace starts making racket and he says, 'Ah ha! It's a clinker!' So he rushes downstairs tripping over toys, etc. Then says 'Open up the damper! Who the hell turned it all the way down?!' Then Mom, remembering that she turned it down and is the reason the furnace is acting up, goes over to the controls and adjusts them. Slightly unsure of which lever is which.

A great scene and a great movie.

~Tim
 
Thanks Guys

For the explinations and memories, please keep them coming!

Also have heard of young children being sent down to rail yards/along side rail road tracks to gather up "loose" coal that had fallen from the tenders of locomotives (back when coal powered steam trains). This was dangerous not only because wee ones running around close to tracks not know when or where a train was coming, but owners of RRs did *not* always take kindly to this activity, and would try and have anyone caught arrested. However times being what they were for some, and coal costing dear, it was the only way many got enough to heat their homes.

Thinking back upon my childhood, my elementry school was heated by coal. It was an old building (built back around the late 1800's or early 1900's), and several times per week the janitors hauled up these huge bins of something (now I know it was ash/clinkers), from the bowels of the building.

Until rather recently, and may still be for all I know, in order to become a janitor of a New York City school, one had to be certified and pass exams to operate coal fired boilers/furnaces. Think by now most of them have been swapped out for gas or oil, if the entire building hasn't been shut or torn down.
 
heating with coal

I was raise in a house heated with coal. We would go to the coal yard and get a truck load of coal a few times a winter. In order for the fire to burn correctly air had to be let in throught the damper. Ours wasn't as fancy as Ralphs' parents,it was right on the furnace. We just "knew" were to set them(almost closed at night and during the day when noone was home-open more in the evenings and weekends). The grates had to be shaken every night or the ash that built up would impeed the air flow, so the fire wouldn't burn well and the house would get cold.Every now and then a clinker would get into the grate and you had to work it out by shaking the grate very forcefully. If you couldn't get it out sometimes you had to scrap out the hot coals into a metal bucket and get at the clinker with fire tongs. As to the smoke it did happen from time to time and coal heat is very dirty. I remember our sheer white curtain getting grey and my mother washing then two or three times a winter. We also washed all the walls every spring and the water would be grey from the coal soot. When we burned just wood it was much cleaner but was much more work. JEB
 
I am very grateful

To know, gas or oil forced central air heat!




Very glad I have never had to deal with coal or wood, or electricity.




Lawrence/Maytagbear






 
Our coal came

from a little company in Detroit. My mother worked for them at home as a book-keeper, and we all knew everyone in the office from frequent trips there. I was quite small then, probably not yet in school. The office was filled with curious and interesting stuff (then, probably familiar today) including small hoppers on one wall with samples of the various grades of coal available. We knew all the drivers too. They had minimum order quantities so the trucks would not go out with less than full loads, but this was relaxed for us. Instead of a couple of tons of coal once a year, we would get a ton or half-ton as required. The benefit was little or no coal left in our bin over the summer.

Also we had an electrically-driven mechanism which opened and closed the damper in response to a thermostat on the first floor. When built, the house had a chain which looped over a wheel on the wall in the hallway for adjusting the damper. My dad had bought and installed the automatic system at some point. It had chains and pulleys running all over the basement from its location on the exterior wall to the damper in the chimney flue behind the furnace, and down to the damper door on the ash bin in the front. As I recall it, there were only two positions, all the way open or all the way closed. That doesn't seem very smart but maybe because the automatic control would close it when it got too hot it would all work out over the long term.
 
Several houses in this neighborhood heated with coal when I was a kid. The residence I'm currently renting (built 1938) originally had a coal fired boiler for steam heat. The metal door is still in the top of the basement wall, but the coal bin has been torn out. The chimney still exists, but is rickity and I look for the top to fall at any time. Electric baseboard heaters were installed about 25 years ago, but something makes me think an oil burner was used in between.

I remember during the late fall and winter how thick black smoke poured from the chimneys of several houses in my block. It was a very dirty way to heat, and a very thorough spring cleaning was done by anyone who kept a decent house. A couple neighbors had forced air systems, and if they malfunctioned, smoke would come out the registers. One neighbor had to send all the drapes and upholstery out to be cleaned, and scrub down the entire inside of the house after such an incident occured while they were out. This was the last straw for them, and they soon got a new gas furnace.

I would think coal fired heat would have been considered old-fashioned by the 30's for anyone of means. My dad's aunt and uncle built their house in '36, and it had oil forced air (I think a Norge). It's not a mansion by any means, but was considered a very nice home in its day.
 
Speaking Of "Spring Cleaning"

Did you know the term refers to the annual major cleaning households did after the winter heating season was over?

All the soot from burning coal and or wood (for heating and cooking), and probably to some extent petrol lamps, and candles left soot covering many surfaces indoors. This would be augmented by the particulate matter in outdoor air which came into the home (since everyone else was burning coal or wood in their boilers/furnaces, not to mention steam power for everything from locomotives to heavy equipment).

While not much could be done about the later, once the heating season was over, and homes "opened up" to fresh air, all that soot/dust covering everything had to go. Hence the entire household was turned upside down as an orgy of cleaning, dusting, washing, beating, and so forth was tackled. The very well do to often hired in help and vacated to homes elsewhere or simply went away on *vacation*. Everyone else made do best they could. Those without large familes (read lots of children, mainly daughters) to help either hired people in, and or family members came to "visit" and help out.

Speaking of polluted outdoor air, homes built early in the 20th century were very drafty by today's standards. It was called "ventilation" and was seen as good thing for outdoor air to come into homes, even with windows closed. This took on special meaning after the flu pandemic of 1918-1919. People thought *germs* would be carried out of buildings with plenty of fresh air.

Being as this may, it lead to not only heating systems being designed vastly over-sized to accomodate all that cold air seeping in/heated air leaking out; but very dirty indoor air as all that "fresh" air often contained the aforementioned soot, especially for those living in or near urban areas.
 
I'll chime in on this one. The first house I remember living in (up until 1966) had a coal furnace, and an inexpensive one at that. There was only one centrally located "cold air return" but I[I think] four warm air registers. It was in the basement that my father and his brother added AFTER the house was built. There was always a cellar with an outside entrance.

We had a coal bin with the big cast iron door that hung on the side of the house. We had no damper control upstairs. It all had to be done at the furnace. My Dad would shake the grates, shovel the coal, and adjust the dampers all with enough noise to let us all know what he was doing.

One interesting thing you washer types will appreciate - in the winter Mom would do the laundry, and hang it up in the basement. Occasionally the plate between the firebox and the plenum would buckle and that furnace would cough soot all over her laundry. She would be so upset!! She never caught a break, as in the warmer months - she would hang laundry outside and the Illinois Central (still operating steam) would blow soot from the locomotives all over her clothes. Poor Mom.
 
Smoke.

Better grades of coal burn with less smoke, or none. Also, an efficient burn produces less smoke than an inefficient one.

I'd love a coal parlor stove to burn occationally, but I doubt I'd want to burn the stuff all winter long.
Dave
 
Better grades of coal

Says Phoebe Snow
about to go
upon a trip to Buffalo
"My gown stays white
from morn till night
Upon the Road of Anthracite"
 
Burning Coal & Smoke

From hanging around steam RR forums one learned despite the fact "foamers" like to see coal burning locomotives spew great clouds of smoke, any good engineer and or fireman knew when that was happening it meant inefficient burning of fuel. The solution was to make required adjustments to the "boiler" (which is really all a steam locomotive is), to get things were they needed to be.

Being as the above may, things also very much depended upon what sort of coal the RR could purchase,and or how much they were willing to spend.
 
Right on Launderess!

I've spent a fair bit of time around some steam locomotives and those knowledgeable about them. Although a steam heating boiler is a different beast, the firing of a steam locomotive is a pretty "hands on" endeavor even if there is an automatic stoker. A good fireman will watch and listen to the exhaust stack to evaluate the condition of the fire and the locomotive's power output and make necessary adjustments. Coal wasn't (and still isn't) free and firemen were encouraged and trained by their employers on how to fire as efficiently as possible.

Coal can be wonderfully effective,
Dave
 
IIRC

When a caol burning steam loco is giving off clouds up the smokestack, it can mean that the fire/coal is literally being *sucked* up the flues and spew up and out into the air. This not only means wasted coal, but much of what is in the firebox isn't being burned, thus the RR is literally throwing money up in smoke.

Always thought that one simply chucked coal into a furnace/boiler, but know now that is not the case. Be it good fireman on a RR, or anyone else that does the thing well, coal is shoveled into the firebox in a very particular way.Yes sir, one must learn how to *read* and *listen* because the boiler/furnace will tell you what wants doing.
 
"Until rather recently, and may still be for all I
know, in order to become a janitor of a New York City school, one had to
be certified and pass exams to operate coal fired boilers/furnaces.
Think by now most of them have been swapped out for gas or oil, if the
entire building hasn't been shut or torn down."

The position is known as a "Fireman" believe it or not. I don't know if everyone on building staff had to know how to operate a boiler, but I am pretty sure even today the position exists and is generally held by the person responsible for making sure the heating is in order.

I recall having been in a basement dealing with a large number of derelict Commodore 64's in a school in Brooklyn - PS 177K I think it was, and having been quite surprised to see the building still being heated with coal.   There was a massive room under one wing of the building just for coal storage, and an system of overhead rails used to transport hanging cars of coal to one of several boilers.  The whole operation was pretty clean and tidy.  Outside on the street were large garbage can sized ashcans with coal ash in them, ready for DSNY.  This would have been as late as 2003.

Nice warm building.  Wish my office had been there!
 
Efficiency.

As I wrote before (I think) there's a guy in the heatinghelp community who is experimenting with a modulating gas burner on a new steam boiler to mimic the effects of a coal fire dying down. This modulating burner, combined with vacuum vents would allow the system to go into a vacuum and let the water boil and steam at much lower temperatures. The result would be that the system could run in a more subdued fashion most of the time and when more heat is needed, the burner could increase output, giving a quicker response and the pipes would already be hot (the pipes wouldn't take heat from the steam to come up to temperature, instead they would be warm enough to let the steam pass while losing much less energy).

It's just some very old technology being looked at for a second time,
Dave
 
"Blue Coal"

Is the kind/brand my parents got when we lived in the 'hood until 1959 when we moved to the 'burbs. We had a coal furnace in the basement that operated hot water radiators, and the fire always had a blue cast to it. There was a series of small-link chains that went across the basement ceiling and up the stairs to our 1st floor landing. These were to operate the damper but never, ever worked right. My OM always adjusted the mechanism by hand at the furnace. Clinkers always got prompt attention along with much %$#@! The coal man would come with "a ton" and set up chutes down the alleyway to the bin, and the truck bed would go way, way up in the air and cause a hell of a racket accompanied by much dust. Us kids would scavenge the "nuts" as we called them to write on the slate sidewalks (hopscotch diagrams and the occasional bad words). A couple shovelfuls in the ayem kept the furnace going most of the day; shake down the ashes at night and "dampen" the fire for the night. Ashes went into a can for pickup once a week, unless it snowed then we scattered them in the alleyway and sidewalk. My aunt lived around the corner, and had a gas-on-coal stove in the kitchen. Also a stove in the parlor connected to a flue. It looked like a big console radio. Both burned "pea" coal. Both familes had a big tank in the kitchen next to a burner that looked like a rocket ship. The burner had coils over a gas jet that would heat up the cold incoming water and deposit it via a pipe that went to the top of tank. You'd feel the tank to tell when it was hot enough. When my OL was preg with my sister, she loved to do dishes and lean against the tank to get relief for her aching back. Of course, this would be brutally hot during the summer so someone would crank up the hot water in the middle of the night and put a fan in the window so as not to be getting heat stroke during the day. The hot water would usually be enough for the whole day (it was a really big tank). Our radiators from the coal stove (one to a room) had little torpedoes on the side that would give off steam sometimes (I don't know why) and humidify the room. My OL put pie tins underneath them to catch the condensed water. Rust! The furnace had a plumbing pipe that the OM would turn on every week or so to add water to the system. It had a glass tube on the side that would tell you when it was full. We had an old-fashioned gas stove on tall legs that was over where the furnace was. My cat always slept under there. And my OL had lines in the basement, too, to dry clothes when it was nasty in the winter. Our basement was always really warm and dry. Washing walls/ceilings/curtains was always an immense chore after heating season. My OL and my aunt shared an immense frame with a zillion little nails embedded in the wood. You'd wash the curtains then "pin" them onto the nails to dry and stretch so they wouldn't need ironing. When this was in the hall/yard/basement, we were always admonished, "Look out for the curtain frame!". Thanx for all the memories!

One more thing. The "Phoebe Snow" was operated by the Erie-Lackawanna RR whose tracks ran on a trestle opposite our back yard. My OM's uncle was one of the engineers and used to really goose it up when the diesel train climbed the trestle. The entire house would shake, and for good measure he would lean on the air horn for the entire length of the block. Drowning out the TV, radio, or my OL on the phone. Her response after the racket went past was always, "That g-ddamn Uncle Charlie!".
 
Quote: It was years later I learned that "checking the furnace" meant actually a good swig of scotch from the bottle he kept above the furnace and not much to do with the coal at all....

*WOW* Even. Would you look at that! Even str8 men have to drink to take the edge off to able to lyeth next to the beast.... er female... of the species. (LOL ducks and runs REALLY fast to exit the torch-wielding mob).

Coal chute door in New York City, 2010.

Pipe above it is a vent line from a modern and currently used fuel-oil storage tank. These pipes whistle as oil is added to the tank while tank is empty. As the tank approaches being full, the whistling stops; turn off the oil-delivery truck's pumps and fast!

toggleswitch++1-7-2011-13-58-34.jpg
 
Coal chute door

Newer houses than ours (built 1942) in our neighborhood had these kinds of doors. My aunt had one, she lived a couple blocks away. Our coal went in through one of the basement windows. My memory is really unclear here, I recall that the entire window and frame came out. That doesn't seem reasonable to me sitting here in 2011, but that's how I remember it. Anyone I could ask about it is no longer alive.
 
Torpedoes for ptcruiser51.

The torpedoes were single-pipe steam air vents. The radiators were filled with steam, not hot water. The purpose of the air vents is to let the air out of the radiators and then shut when the hot steam hits them, keeping the steam in the system. When steam comes out of the vents, it means that the vents are stuck open. If the vents drip water, it's often the result of the open vent releasing steam. In both cases, the vents likely need to be replaced or boiled in vinegar. Dripping vents can also indicate radiators that aren't properly sloped (the radiator must be slightly angled toward the valve so the condensed water that used to be steam flows back to the pipe and back to the boiler.

Vents releasing steam is extremely bad. The heating system should be a sealed system, recycling the boiler water over and over again, making steam, condensing back to water, then being reheated again. As this works, the recycled water looses its oxygen, reducing the corrosion of the system. If the vents release steam, water must be added to the system, and this water contains oxygen, which will corrode the system. Also, many systems need chemical additives to improve performance and further reduce corrosion. when steam is released, the chemical balance of the boiler water is thrown off. Releasing steam necessitates lots of makeup water, which is a great way to corrode a boiler beyond repair in a big hurry.

I wish I had steam heat!
Dave
 

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