About electricity bills

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Utilities vary a bit from place to place!

It's amazing how different things get charged for in different countries.

The unusual ones here in Ireland are that there's been no property tax since the 1970s although it's just recently been re-introduced. However, it's still pretty insignificant relative to what you pay elsewhere.

Say an average urban home costing €350,001 to 400,000 (US481,000 to 550,000) would only pay €675 (US$928) per year (0.18%) anything over €1,000,000 (US$1,377,500) goes up to 0.25% on the amounts over 1m.

Water charges and metering haven't been in use here other than for commercial premises. Households were just paid for out of general taxation and service was provided by your local county or city council. However, they're introducing water metering and the water services are being moved to a publicly owned company called Irish Water as of this year. So, things are changing and my bills will quite likely increase.

The other weird one here is refuse charges / garbage. It was privatised and opened to competition much like any other utility and the local councils / cities stepped out of the business entirely. So, in each area you've several trash operators all competing for business with various packages available depending on your usage and which options you go for.

They're all required to collect general garbage, brown waste (compostables), recyclables and glass. However, you get various frequencies of collection depending on who you go with and what you pay per month.

Some areas also require pay-by-weight. This is where your non-recyclable bin has a chip in the handle and the truck weighs it when it collects it and you get an invoice every quarter for the amount of garbage that has had to go to 'thermal disposal' or landfill. Other areas allow a combination of pay by weight or pay by lift (where they charge you per wheelie-bin (large trash can with wheels) collected). In those systems you typically have to purchase tags that go on the bin or prepay online.

Certainly makes you think about what you throw out a lot more than in the old days!
 
Arbilab

I totally understand what you mean.

Until yesterday afternoon, I always wondered why people moved to the U.S. or to Europe to work as cleaners, pizza delivery, swimming pool cleaners, etc... mosto of the time being even illegal... I always hated this kind of attitude because it makes difficult for people like me, that don't need a job in other country to survive.

Well... UNTIL YESTERDAY! Now I understand why doctors, engineers, teachers, lawyers prefer to simply forget they spent a fortune in education and abandon a successful professional carreer in Brazil to clean toilet bowls in other country.

Taxes are everywhere, no country survives without them. It's a fact. Corruption is everywhere too. Of course most politicians always find a way to get some money:

What i finally saw yesterday, when this thread opened my eyes was corruption in Brazil has reached unthinkable levels and the population does nothing about it...

Let's take the american health system as an example... The whole world saw on the news people complaining they didn't like what the politicians were doing... and believe me, even the worst hospital in the U.S. is hundreds of times better than the best public hospital in Brazil. In Brazil people simply gross their arms and say "well, they can't help us, what a pity... let's find a way to get medical attention... maybe lend some money with friends or family... but wait, there's carnival in February so the government is doing something for us.... we at least have the carnival..." Totally "panis et circensis" give the circus to people, they won't complain about things that are really important.

I lived in other countries (UK and US) and I never thought about immigrating to another country again... I always said that... I love the US, but for vacations, because I love my country even more. Here I have my family, my friends, and we don't have earthquakes, tornadoes, natural fires and other natural disasters.

But now, after linking the news about politicians being arrested in airports around the world with money hidden in their underwear (literally) and all the taxes we pay for everything vs. what the government offers people.... come on... I got sick and angry of it. That's enough for me!

At my age, working hard at college to get the best scores, working harder to build a wonderful career, i realized i worked my whole life as a slave to mantain politicians living in palaces while poor people die.

A minister traveled to france for a DINNER! No he wasn't in a diplomatic mission. He simply decided to use the air force airplane, the same presidential airplane, to have dinner in Paris with his wife... All that payed with PUBLIC MONEY.

The most recent news was about a minister that used a federal helicopter for drug trafficking... And guess what happened with him... NOTHING because federal politicians are totally imune and can't be judged. Like everything in Brazil, peolple will forget in a few days, until more important news appear, like the last episode of a soap opera.

Remember a fire that happened months ago and killed hundreds of people in a night club? On the next day politicians were all on tv, saying they would create new safety standards, bla bla blah... a month later, the population simply forgot... the politicians forgot too... NOTHING was made. Something simple as creating a law saying fire sprinklers are mandatory in Brazil, was simply forgotten in a drawer because it would be too stressful for them to deal with it... They prefered to create a law saying that it has to be studied........ IN 30 YEARS!

You all her ein the group might remember the hundreds of times i said "come to Brazil, come visit, it will be my pleasure to host you here for vacations, you don't even need to worry about hotels because you can stay here in my apartment. My city is beautiful, with lots of sightseeing places and tour atractions"...

I'm so dissapointed and frustrated with my country that I'm going to say, for the first time.... "if you want to come, hurry up. my city is still beautiful, we still have lots of atractions for tourists but, if you take too long, i won't be here to host you." Brazil for me, only for vacations and visit my family. I'm seriously considering leaving my country, at my age, and restart a new life in other country... I don't know where and how but, the first opportunity i have to immigrate legally to other country, I'll do it.

Its not because of the money, it's because of a lifestyle I can't accept anymore.
 
Don't be too quick to abandon Brasil, you'll find the corruption EVERYwhere. At least Brasil doesn't go around the world starting pointless wars like US does then borrow the money to pay for them from China. I'd say the US doing stuff like that is a bigger detriment to world economics than Brasil charging 8x for electric, but that's a bigger detriment to PERSONAL economics. It hasn't ALWAYS been that bad, has it?

OTOH, my entire industry (technology, minus software and defense) got sent to China and I haven't had a 'real' job since 2001, lost my house and retirement, and stuck in federal housing equivalent to a cheap motel. Give me my 6-figure job back and yeah I'd pay $900 electric bills. I wouldn't LIKE it, but I'd DO it.
 
My dentist is from southern Brazil and, incidentally, we had a chat about why he chose to come to Australia; just this morning. His primary reason for leaving is the escalating violence and crime that is rampant throughout Brazil. He also stated that there is too much corruption to run an effective government and neighboring countries of the region are no better. He also doesn't see any positive change in the forseeable future. For him and his family there are better opportunities in Australia where he feels safe.

He is a great dentist btw, and of Italian extraction. Very handsome and capable. I'm glad he moved here.
 
N.B.

He was also telling me of a friend of his, who lives in Rio and about her place of work. Apparently the neighboring favellas closed in on her company building over a couple of years, making it unsafe to work there. As it was too expensive to relocate the company to a safer location, they fortified the building and chose to transport their employees by bullet-proof busses every day. Weird. I couldn't imagine living like that.

It is bad enough when I think about the Philippines and how the wealthy there have to live behind barbed wire in their 'secure' and armed enclaves. They have shopping centres that do not admit regular citizens. You have to show ID and heavily armed security guards are ubiquitous everywhere. When you go outside you get mobbed by people as if you are some kind of movie star.
 
We're getting FAR from appliance topics, but considerately so.

IMO US is also too corrupt to be effective and without evidence of likely positive change. What country of authority is NOT so? I can't name one.

Are we headed for another dark age as followed the corruption of Rome? The secrets of the ancients, discovered ensconced by the Moors, pulled us out of that morass. What's left to pull us out of THIS one? The return of the Annunaki?

Be sure and email me when you find out. [email protected] Dang, I should register that URL. "thenextworld.org" is already taken.
 
Arbilab... i understand your points

It's obvious corruption is everywhere But the problem here isn't the corruption alone... is the people too..

Come on, if you don't have the money to pay for a doctor, you'll use public service, even if it's much worse.

But the you rush to a hospital with your son almost dying, but let's say it's possible to save his life with something really simple. The the receptionist says the doctor won't help your son because his wage is too low so he decided to work less... While your son is dying, the doctor is playing golf with his friends.

What would you do?

People here are so used to get (The F word) that they simply say "Ok, well, i'll go back home and wait for my son to die... thanks... bye". exactly the same way i react every month about my bill "well, it's expensive, but i need it, so I'll be quiet and pay". Not anymore... not after the last sunday, when i wore my glasses to read those tiny letters on the bill.

I'm totally sick of it... And worse... Come on... i don't want to sound arrogant but... I graduated twice and i'm six months away from finishing my third major, I reached the best positions inside a huge multinational company and had a super salary before I retire... The salaries i had my whole life plus the way I always saved and invested my money during my whole professional carreer would have turned me into a millionaire today. And even a cleaner in the US or a fish & chips seller in UK could have more money past 30 years.

I worked for what? To pay taxes... only! If at least 1% of that money was really used on public benefits, I wouldn't complain. I don't care about paying the taxes. But I want to see at least some results.

My street looks worse than the moon's surface. We don't even say there's a hole on the street. Now we say there are small pieces of street on the holes.
 
And of course, moving legally to other country isn't easy... I won't pack immediatelly...

It takes months studying the regions (and even the countries, but I admit I have an special love for the U.S.) before choosing where to move. Remember i'm talking about leaving everything behind and starting a new life in other country, not buying a box of a new laundry detergent brand to try.
After that, discover what's needed to migrate according to the local laws (i'd never leave my country to stay illegal in other country, that's absurd) only after I meet all the requirements, I'll start preparing thing for leaving... Pay all my bills, sell properties and cars, get rid of personal belongings that I won't be able to transport to other country, etc. All that can take at least one or two years, but the most important decision was made: I'm leaving! And the country still have the carnival... panis et circensis... let's act like a jackass and celebrate the s*** we live! YAY!

Robert, can I move to your basement? LOL

Now, let's stop being off topic. It's not fair and polite to other members. ;)

December is being even hotter... I'm really concerned about the next bill..
 
BTW

Corruption isn't everywhere and it is very much a cultural thing. Most of Western Europe and even Canada is pretty much corruption free. Not completely, but, in comparison to the rest of the world, corruption is still uncommon enough that it shocks people when it occurs. You can feel pretty confident that when you go to the police or any government agencies, you will be treated honestly and according to a professional code of practice and conduct. The same with any business. You don't have to bribe anyone to get permits, pass your exams, run your business, get compliance certification, receive the goods that you have ordered and paid for etc. - most northern Europeans are averse to corruption. It is just not part of their psychology. I guess that is why those countries have a very high quality of life and are rated the highest globally, when it comes to issues of social justice and equality.

On being off topic, you could always ask Robert to move this thread to a more appropriate forum.
 
Here in Tennessee our highest power bill was 200 bucks in the Summer now the Winter it get's up to about 250 bucks at the

most.We have 6 tons of heating and cooling,Trane 20 4 ton heat pump and a two ton Mitsubishi Hyper-heat our house is large and Trane is kinda weak on Heat when it get's cold.Power is cheap in

Tennessee we have a bunch of Nuclear and Hydro plants..I don't see how y'all survive down there at all and I thought Hawaii is

expensive.Brazil is beautiful but how do you eat or buy a house?My Sis just bought a house for 360k here I bet it would be

Millions there.
 
My apartment costed really cheap when i bought it cash in 1997..

Nowadays, nobody in my building would sell it for less than 1.2 million american dollars.

Ok i admit it's huge like most of the buildings in my city and maybe in a huge city like New York, maybe an apartment like mine would cost the same... but...

My building is a little bit more than a standard middle class building, but not even close to a what a luxury building in Brazil would offer. The only "premium" features are that it was built with state of the art security devices, much beyond what is required by our codes and a huge natural garden for people go jogging.

Thats exacty what im pissed off about brazil... im retired but I still have to work until I die or im going to spend all my savings paying bills and buying food. If I were in any other country, now that would be the time to start thinking about traveling the world or spend my afternoons playing golf without worrying abiut my bills.
 
Thomas ...

"Thats exacty what im pissed off about brazil... im retired but I still have to work until I die or im going to spend all my savings paying bills and buying food. If I were in any other country, now that would be the time to start thinking about traveling the world or spend my afternoons playing golf without worrying abiut my bills."

Not the USA.

Not only would you be working until you die, you'd be working TWO jobs until you die.
 
On corruption ...since we're WAY off topic anyway :)

Corruption happens everywhere. If anyone tells me that their country is completely free of all corruption, they're either extremely naive, brainwashed by patriotism or somehow benefit from the coverup of corruption themselves.

What matters is how corruption's dealt with and what the attitudes of the general public are to it and whether the infrastructure is in place to deal with it legally.

In a healthy, open democracy with good levels of transparency and strong levels of social cohesion any corruption will tend to be exposed and dealt with quite effectively. So, if anything sometimes you'll find people from parts of Northern Europe and Canada etc will tend to be very aware of any corruption that's going on in their countries as it will be a matter of public debate.

The issue that worries me is when you see corruption becoming so endemic that it becomes acceptable or where the state itself becomes part of that corruption.

If you're talking about the USA and EU countries, take a look at the financial services sector! Due to very effective lobbying (which may not necessarily have been paying people off, but just spinning thing the right way / wielding economic cloud) the banks managed to get a situation where they'd 'light touch' regulation and basically walked us into near economic armageddon in 2008!

The banks then convinced the governments that they were so fundamentally important to the economic system that they could not be allowed to fail and 'We the People" in various otherwise very democratic countries had our representatives backed into a corned and billions upon billions of public money poured into those banks.

Here in Ireland for example, the fall out of that and the collapse of a property bubble was that the Government that was in power at that time and that made that decision collapsed as MPs withdrew support and it ended up facing the wrath of the public in a general election. FF, a party that had dominated Irish politics for decades (on the same scale as the Democrats or the Republicans in the US) lost all but 20 seats. Basically they were absolutely decimated and ended up in 4th position. Their collation partners the Green Party no longer have any seats at all.

There was a lot of anger, and a lot of annoyance but it didn't end up in riots in the street. The system worked and decision makers lost their seats and were replaced with alternatives.

We've just spent the last four years really digging ourselves out of that mess and the economy is finally starting to turn around in a noticeable way and is starting to show signs of rapidly falling unemployment and major export growth again. Huge amounts of money were made available for retraining (including vocational stuff and going back to university and do masters etc to change career direction entirely). Loads of emphasis has been put into supporting new businesses etc etc.

I think what separates countries with good and bad governance is always down to transparency, accountability (to the electorate) and the fact that the electorate engages and understands problems and can deal with them.

In general here though most people would have very strong levels of confidence in the police (who are unarmed btw) and those kinds of structures. There's a lot of cynicism about politicians at the moment which is probably not entirely justified but is understandable given what we've just been through. However, I think all in all our system general works pretty well.

Absolutely no country gets a perfect score on corruption though.

The most important thing in any country is to QUESTION EVERYTHING.

To paraphrase a famous quote often erroneously attributed to several famous people including Thomas Jefferson:

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance!"

In countries with no history of democracy or with flawed democracies, that's obviously a *LOT* more difficult. However, for those of us lucky enough to be living in liberal democracies, it is unbelievable that a significant % of people just opt not to engage and don't bother voting and then moan about the system.

I nearly stopped speaking to a friend of mine over this a few months ago. We had a referendum on whether or not to keep the Senate or just have a one house (unicameral) system like some Nordic countries and New Zealand.
This involved voting to change the constitution (we do this every now and then).

This guy was like "what's that got to do with me? I don't care. It's was raining so I didn't bother!" (yet he spends his life complaining about everything!).

How many people in the world get an opportunity to actually vote on changes to the constitution?!?
How many people every in human history have had that power?
Yet, we have it and here's that guy throwing it away coz he couldn't be bothered...

Infuriating![this post was last edited: 12/19/2013-07:35]
 
Fantastic but... It didn't change up my mind...

Please don't think i'm one of those "cockaroaches" that move to the US to make money working as cleaners and after some years return to their country with money enough to build their first house.

I already have a life, a career, etc... but I'm simply tired of all of it. I want to start something different... Other night I was chatting on Facebook to a friend (and also member) when I noticed I love the US even on silly things like eating Poptarts on breakfast (the pseudo-natural flavors that taste like a soap bar are the best LOL) or when my favorite tv show or movie is interrupted by the EBS test. I would say I'm much more patriot about the US than about Brazil. Probably I'm an american that was born in the wrong country by mistake. ROFL

Think of somebody that have an american flag hung on a small pole in the balcony on the 6th floor. That's me. (and with all pseudo-patriot neighbors asking me why do I have an american flag instead of a brazilian flag).

My decision was made. Would somebody marry me to get a green card? LOL
 
Electric rate here runs about 11.5 cents per kwh, which I understand is relatively low. However, due to a limited budget I try to be careful. My bill ranges from 80 to 150 dollars a month, depending on the time of year. My home is 900 square feet, built in 1976 and rather inneffecient, with jalousie windows (crank out style) insufficient insulation, etc. Of course it's also an all electric home, common in this are. I save by using plastic over the windows, heavy drapes, twice a year sealing any draft areas with caulk etc, not using the dryer, and heating with oil filled radiator heaters rather than simple resistance heaters, turning down the heat at night and using electric blankets on the beds, and in summer using a large vintage sears Kenmore window fan rather than air conditioning most of the summer, running it at night and closing all the windows and drapes in the morning, I generally break down and use my vintage ge air conditioners ( 2 carry cools each one 6000 btu, one in each bedroom, and a large 110 volt 12000 btu unit in the kitchen) around the last of July or first of august, until the worst heat is over. Neighbors with similar homes have electric bills from 200 to 400 dollars year round, so I think I'm doing fairly well.
 
You spend half of the energy your neighbors do...You're doing really well, not considering any possible factor that might cause this huge difference.

I laugh on my neighbors... I use dryer, dishwasher, disposer, even my bathtub pump and they don't have a dryer, a dishwasher and didn't even know what was a disposer until they met my kitchen.... and they pay much more.

Their AC units are "dumb efficiency!... aham... Less power but it's compressor suffers to cool down the ambient while my "old crap" reaches the comfort temperature in no time.
Their washing machine is high efficiency too, but they have to repeat the cycle countless times to get clothes rinsed.

And finally, they don't have a drier (like most of brazilians) Why spend money if clothes dry in 5 minutes hung on a line?... But then they waste much more electricity and elbow grease ironing everything. Derrrrrrrrrrr

New bill arrived today (WTF?!?!) They love money so much that work even on holidays to measure the consumption?

Weather was much hotter this month and I washed, dried, ironed all the curtains for Christmas... And I got some days off at work, so... more time at home... Add to that the appliances used and the many dishwasher loads while preparing Christmas' and new year's parties. Oh yes, I also had to run the oven cleaning cycle... Somebody please call EMS. This month the bill was much beyond desperating. Probably the whole building heard me shouting "son of..." after the bill was thrown under my door.

Tomorrow morning I'll gently let my maid know that dishwasher and dryer are absolutely forbiden in this house until winter comes. Even the coffee maker... Wait, the blender too... and the stand mixer... Do we need lights? Candles are so romantic.

I also started to consume things from the freezer and i'll turn it off.

And if someone wants bubbles in the bathtub, eat chili a few hours before a bath but DO NOT TOUCH THAT F*****G CONTROL PANEL!

In my case, a single Kw saved will make wonders, so let's return to the stone age.
 

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