About Persil ProClean & Froth

[launderess]

In general

Powdered detergents of any sort will create less froth than liquids.

Powders can rely upon various non foam producing builders (washing soda, borax, phosphates, Zeolites, etc...) for some or all of their cleaning power. Thus the foaming will come from the choice of surfactants; nonionic (low) or anionic (high).

Fresh Start laundry detergent of old was so low foaming because it was mainly phosphates, nonionic surfactants and later enzymes.

Every single Persil or other European liquid/gel laundry detergent one has used (Ariel Excel, St. Croix, included) has proven to require careful dosage to avoid excess froth and easier rinsing. In fact no longer add STPP to such wash loads as found it just made things worse.

 

[DADoES]

 
ProClean powder/pearls is what Stan references.

 

[stan]

Yes

Same stuff as pictured in reply 29.
I've tried to like this detergent.. Seems to be a favorite, but the balancing act required for me to get a clean rinse, and the scent residue removed on certain cottons seems difficult unless I do a second rinse.
I can't justify this with my T.L machine, and our drought.

 

[kb0nes]

Let's see sudsing photos of the load during agitation, not in the laundry tub. The action of the pump will cause most any detergent to suds vigorously!

 

[stan]

If

I use this again, I'll try to snap a pic of agitation during wash, and agitation during rinse.
Might have been O.K with seeing froth from draining wash water. But that was the rinse water.

 

[kb0nes]

Sorry Stan, missed that it was the RINSE!!

That being the case, you are using way too much in my estimation. How do you determine / measure dosing?

I have seen minor sudsing in the wash with the liquid, I have never had rinsing problems like that.

 

[mrwash]

German Persil

Seems like the Germans brought some good stuff, huh? But anyway...concerning the froth-factor: The Megapearls over here always produced lots of suds. Just overdose a little and you were done. That's why I stopped using them. Haven't tried the super brand-new formula which just came out a couple of months ago because some people said it would suds less. We'll see...

 

[jerrod6]

Wow such variations.

 

For me the Persil Pro Persils smell and act exactly like the German version of Persil for whites.  Some suds but not too much and the first rinse is milky but not a lot of suds.  Here are pics of a load I did this past monday.  It was 4 queen sheets, and 8 large pillow cases.  The sheets are white and off white in color.  I used a 140F wash and 3 rinses.  At a temp of 140F the washer will do a suds cool down(run cold water in 2 minutes before the wash ends)  to cool the water down.  I posted a pic of the cool down water because you can't see any water in the machine for the wash.  The last rinse contains Suavitel Sunset Rose Scent fabric softener.  This is my favorite scent of FS.

 

I usually dose by soil level and not load size, or sometimes a combination of both.  If I have a large  or regular load of items with no visible dirt I use a small amount.  If I have a visible soil on some items I may increase the dose just slightly.  If I have visible dirt on a regular load then I will use more.

 

I have a front loader not top, and I typically use 2 tablespoons for no visible soil.  For these sheets I used 3 tablespoons and added an extra rinse.

 

The pics are:  Suds cool down of the wash, First rinse, Second rinse, Last rinse.

 

The next time I do a load in the Persil Perls 2n1 I will try to remember to take pics.

 

In my opinion liquids seem to generate more suds than powders, so it is really  important to take the soil level in to account instead of relying on the manufacturer's recommendation of using different lines for different load sizes.  That entire way of dosing  - without mentioning soil level - doesn't make sense to me. 

 

 

 

 

[stan]

Hi Phil

The dosing of the Pearsil Pearls was line one on the cap.
Here is a pic of the rinse water on a different load using my own mix of Strong Lye Soap, STPP, and Soduim Percarbonate.

 

[toploader55]

Maiden Wash in the Miele

Just back from a quick trip to NJ for a few days.

 

Had a few loads to do and while I was gone, the Pro Clean arrived.

 

4 pairs of Jeans, 2 Sweatshirts and a Carharrt Shirt/Jacket.  Did a Normal dose.

 

I was a little sketchy on the scent being too strong but...very little suds and rinsed out extremely well.

 

After the dryer, I can say I do not like scented laundry at all.  But the very faint scent smelled really nice and fresh.  This load was not heavily soiled at all.

 

Would I buy it again ? Yes.

 

[stan]

Eddie

Was it the pearls?
What's a normal dose! Line one? Line two?

 

[toploader55]

Stan,

 

It is the liquid.  Like 1/2+ a capful.

 

I tried Universal Mega Pearls Powder about 3 years ago.  Much prefer the Universal Powder.

 

Going to play a little more with this liquid.  Now that the restaurant is closed, I don't really have anything soiled.

 

Guess I'll have to "create" some stains and soil.

 

 

 

[kb0nes]

I never measure in the cap myself. The diameter of the cap is too big and its hard to see the level anyhow. I have a small glass measuring cup I use for liquids. For powders I use a Tablespoon.

In a top loader I dose entirely from observation, I totally ignore the "recommended" amounts. Its amazing at how much the dosage varies depending on the soil levels.

 

[jerrod6]

Top loader

Do you mean a 1/2 cap full or 1/2 cap plus 1 cap full.

 

I noticed someone mentioned a normal load.... but I think dosing by load size will cause one to use too much.  I would rather use soil level, and then factor in load size, in my dosing.   For me, unless I see a lot of clothes with visible soiling then I will use less than what is stated for a Normal load even if I have a completely full washer drum. 

 

I figure it cleans well so why waste it. 

 

[toploader55]

I used 1/2 a capful.

 

There were a few bubbles on the glass during the wash.  The last rinse was clear.

 

I may do a wash tomorrow. I'll take a quick vid of the wash glass  and during the rinse.

 

[stan]

One thing I notice

Is that after I've used it a few times..(Persil Pro Clean Pearls) My washer is holding a little of the scent of this detergent
Went to put a load in today and I could smell Persil's scent lingering in the tub.
I'm particular about scents, especially about lingering ones. I've tried to like this detergent.. And in a way I do because it cleans well, but the tricky dosing, rinse issues and the scent.. Think I've got to give in, wrap it in a blanket and set it on someone's doorstep. LOL

 

[toploader55]

Lingering Scent...

Yup.

 

I've noticed on the Custom Program on the Miele unless I add extra rinses that program has only two rinses where the Extra White Program has three.

 

After the White Program there is no scent or barely a trace.  I did a load of Whites today and I must say it cleaned very well.

 

[mrboilwash]

Not sure about the 6x cleaning power claim, but comparing German Persil with Ariel it is no surprise that Persil cleans better and makes more froth than Ariel and many other liquids (which give more or less the same dosing instructions) but have considerably lower surfactant levels. As it has been pointed out before, it`s not all about enzymes.

Persil lists 15-30% anionic surfactants and 5-15% nonionic sufactants.

Ariel lists a pathetic range of 5-15% anionic surfactants and less than 5% nonionic surfactants.

 

[stan]

Haven't put my Pearls on anyone's doorstep..yet

Been pre mixing the Persil Pro Clean Pearls with powdered All Free Clear, half and half.
This cuts the froth, dilutes the Persil scent, and allows some room for dosing it.

 

[jerrod6]

Back on October 23 I mentioned that I would try to take some pics of a white load using 2n1 liquid even though I normally use the Perls on whites.  Yesterday I washed a white load of underwear and a few socks and took pics of the wash, two rinses, and also of the water that was pumped out and a few pics of the spin water...water running out during the spin. The machine was half full so I dosed to just below line 1, and 120F wash:

 

Pic 1 is the wash, you can't really see much water but you can see some with a bit of suds at the bottom running down the glass.

Pic 2 is the wash water caught in a container as it was being pumped out.

Pic 3 is the wash water that came out during the spin.

Pic 4 is the first rinse, there are a few bubbles in the water up in the door area

Pic 5 is the first rinse water pumped out...it is cloudy by not too frothy

Pic 6 is the last rinse that I managed to take while the tumble to the right was beginning.

pic 7 is the last rinse water pumped out

Pic 8 is the water from the last spin after 2 minutes, with 2 minutes remaining.

Pic 9 is the dried load in the basket so you can get an idea of the load size I am talking about.

 

In the end everything came out very clean and soft, and with no leftover visible soil.  

 

 

 

 

 

[launderess]

When one compares Persil "Pro-Clean" to the German versions of "liquid-gel" it is apparent the cap for former is larger than the latter. Indeed the size is far greater. What does one make of this?

Either the product sold in USA is far more diluted than German version so more is required. Or, dosage is based upon various theories that American washing machines are larger, water here is harder, or whatever and thus more product is required.

When using German Persil color "gel" have reported it takes *very* little (< 15ml) to do 5kg in my Miele or AEG washer. Thus cannot imagine using anywhere near one half or even a quarter cap of the Proclean stuff without causing issues. If one doses too much with the German version not only are there frothing and rinsing issues, but the scent quite bowls over and is very long lasting.

Not sure exactly what is going on but strongly feel Henkel/Dial is pulling some sort of fast one with this Persil "ProClean". In any event those who know the German version of old are now speaking out the American version is nothing like what they are used to.

Americans who have never used Persil/Henkel before obviously have no such reference points and perhaps that is the point.

 

[DADoES]

 
I'm still wanting to try the Proclean 2-in-1 liquid.  A recent WM newspaper circular touted it but still none to be found at the local store.  Noticed a few days ago that my mother has a bottle so presumably it's in stock at the WM over that direction.

 

[user 3941]

The 2-in-1 is really good. I bought a small bottle of it and had great results.

The smell does linger...and I like that honestly. When I got my Filter Flo, it had a very strong detergent smell. I wondered what it was until my coworker walked by me and I got a whiff of the same smell! I asked her and she uses Tide...so that must be what the previous owner used.

My Cheer powder and Biz don't leave much of a scent at all after. My washer now just has a faint smell.

 

[frigilux]

Definitely give the ProClean 2 in 1 a try, guys. I tend to use it for loads that don't require the Sanitize cycle. Long washes gradually heated to 155 degrees tend to exacerbate the sudsing issue. It's a champ in the cleaning department.

The little Hy-Vee grocery store I shop at stocks 2 in 1, so no more over-the-river-and-through-the-woods trips to Walmart for it.

 

[powerfin64]

Use line B if you want FOAM!

Recently bought 2 small bottles of Persil Pro-clean($3.99 ea, couldn't pass that price up) One bottle of pro-clean original scent, one of 2-in-1.

Have used the 2-in-1 once so far, cleans exceptionally good. used Line A for a medium sized load, with not too much suds. Rinsing got better at the 2nd rinse.

I have used the pro-clean Original scent a handfull of times, over dosing once by mistake. Boy howdy, the LG was NOT happy at first spin! I used line B for a light-soil(wore 1X) medium load. Creamy-suds were seen most of the time. Then the first spin, FOAM was generated trying to ramp up to speed, which the LG couldn't make and just throwing foam from the door gasket and top of the window, groaning and stoping and trying again.(picture a laundromat scene of front loading machine with nothing but Foam from WAY over dosing)
after it stopped to fill for first rinse, the foam emerged from every hole there was inside.(surprising, the LG did not go into a suds-kill cycle)

Added 1 tablespoon of Downy Free and clear softener to simmer everything down and resume normal rinsing activity with little suds. The remaining 2 rinses were clear, and no issues. Have to admit, this was a experience.

I use line 0 for small/medium/light soiled(worn 1X) loads
use line A for medium/large average soil loads
use line B for FULL loads(which I rarely have)

This stuff is very touchy about dosing in front loaders. the saying goes: "less is more" which stands to be true for front loading machines. I couldn't see any reason to use more than line A for most loads that are not seriously dirty.

Overall, I like the cleaning and scent of Persil very much. I will get more again sometime.

 

[launderess]

Ok, here we go.

Had a bunch of "Plenti points" and an offer for this "American" Persil so picked up a bottle at Rite Aid. Figured for the $2.00 it costs can always move it along if does not suit.

Bought the ProClean "2in1" and off the bat am telling you guys have been robbed. The liquid is just that, much thinner than the Persil/Henkel gel one has from Germany. Hence the reason for larger cap I suppose because you need more.

Dosage wise used about 15ml for a load of bed linen in the Miele. No frothing issues far as that goes. In fact suds were nil which is good because Big Bertha does not like froth, period. Chose that amount because it is what one uses for 5kg in the Miele of the German version.

Going buy the rinse water (yes one examines to determine how well a detergent cleans; want to make something of it....) that 15ml wasn't enough. So will have to go with twice the dosage next time. One had hoped despite the watery appearance of the stuff it still had the cleaning power of Germany, but alas no.

Can also tell by how less profound the scent is when doing the washing that the Dial version isn't as potent as that from Germany. When using the latter the entire laundry/kitchen area (if not beyond) is filled with the wafting scent of Persil. This version while having a sort of air freshener affect just is not as powerful.

All in all not a bad product per se; haven't tried it on anything really badly stained to give a full testing. However aside from the cheap price wouldn't have bothered and probably shan't again. Persil/Dial may be able flog this stuff off on others as "real German" quality but they aren't fooling me.

 

[stan]

Dear

I'm glad you got to use, so you could test and give your input..
On a selfish note.. With you'd picked the pearls so that I could have gotten your thoughts on the same as I chose..
I haven't left my "pearls" on the neighbors doorstep yet.. Only because I'm still trying to find that sweet spot for dosing.
When it annoys me enough.. I'll let the pearls go, and return to my STPP, Sodium percarbonate, and Lye Soap LOL

 

[frigilux]

Launderess-- According to the simple formula for determining detergent concentration (from user guide for Maytag 8100 front-loader) Persil ProClean 2 in 1 falls in the center of the common "2X" column. It is certainly not any more concentrated than most US detergents. As you mentioned, you'll probably get better results (and a stronger scent in the laundry area) by doubling your 15ml dose.

One of the FAQ's at the detergent's website ("Is this the same Persil that is sold in Germany and other European countries?") is answered with this: "Persil Power-Liquid detergents are made by the same company that makes Persil in Germany and many European countries. Persil Power-Liquid detergents deliver the exceptional cleaning experience that Persil consumers across Europe have come to know and love."

Translation: No, the US version is not exactly the same as the German version.

I think both you and Big Bertha will prefer the real-deal Henkel detergent.

For comparison: Persil 2 in 1: 40 oz. jug / 20 loads = 2.0 concentration
Tide Ultra Stain Release: 92 oz. jug / 48 loads = 1.92 concentration

(The two deleted posts below were unintended copies of this one.)[this post was last edited: 12/9/2015-04:34]

 

[frigilux]

Launderess-- According to the simple formula for determining detergent concentration (from user guide for Maytag 8100 front-loader) Persil ProClean 2 in 1 falls dead center in the common "2X" column. It is certainly not any more concentrated than most US detergents. As you mentioned, you'll probably get better results (and a stronger scent in the laundry area) by doubling your 15ml dose.

One of the FAQ's at the detergent's website ("Is this the same Persil that is sold in Germany and other European countries?") is answered with this: "Persil Power-Liquid detergents are made by the same company that makes Persil in Germany and many European countries. Persil Power-Liquid detergents deliver the exceptional cleaning experience that Persil consumers across Europe have come to know and love."

Translation: No, the US version is not exactly the same as the German version.

 

[frigilux]

(this was an accidental double of the post directly above)