advantage of additives in detergents

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cehalstead

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If a person has a conventional top load washer (Speed Queen), is there any advantage to using anything other than an "original" formula of a liquid detergent? Does Tide Hygienic Clean perform better than original Tide in a washer that uses a lot of water to both wash and rinse? I'm thinking that these enhanced formulas are designed for the low water usage machines........
 
depending on soils levels....adding boosters to the wash along with your detergent is never a bad thing....

but nothing special is needed, just the basics....

Ammonia
Color-Safe Bleach
LCB
Vinegar

Lysol even has an additive to reduce germs in the wash.....although with proper washing techniques, I dont see this being needed....
 
I agree with the above statements!

The only thing I will add is that detergents containing lots of enzymes are great for pretreating and soaking. However, it is my opinion that it is better to have the enzymes regardless of concentration since they can work on multiple sites. At a certain point of concentration, you will literally be flushing the enzymes down the drain due to 'saturation'.

As far as additives go, Ammonia and STPP are worth their weight in gold.
 
First there was "Oxi", now it seems every liquid detergent has latched onto "hygiene" as their latest offering du jour. So if one version of Tide or Persil liquid or pods gets laundry "hygienically clean", does that imply the other dozen or more versions don't?

Am getting fed up with it; in fact despite a ban on bringing more laundry products into this home just nabbed a job lot of older formula Cheer powder. Want something to use on odd loads taken to laundromat and for us in Maytag wringer. Could use any of my European detergents for the latter but have to scale up dosage to match higher water usage for the latter. Then there is fact SQ laundromat washers have short wash cycles, and don't do loads that long in Maytag wringer (forty minutes of thrashing about would leave one with rags...*LOL*).

It is amazing that nearly all liquid format detergents listed on EWG have "D" or "F" ratings. Each year list of chemicals in such products grows longer and longer as formulas change to incorporate this or that benefit, much of it marginal IMHO.

Back onto OP's query....

What additives or benefits are worth it in long run for one's money depends upon how one does washing, what is being washed and how. Then of course comes various personal preferences...

Enzymes have revolutionized wash day, but only are good if they are given enough time to work properly. For European washing machines with their long (and now growing increasingly so) wash cycles, enzymes had and still do have plenty of time to do their thing. With top loaders or even semi-automatics a quick wash for between five to ten minutes might not get things done. Hence early enzyme products were meant as pre-soakers. Something many products still recommend for badly soiled items.

On commercial or industrial side of things many still stick to chemicals for shifting marks and soils. They do so because over hundred or so years it has been proven acids, alkalies, bleaches and surfactants will handle a bulk of what comes with soiled laundry.

Most of you lot here already know this from adding ammonia (ammonium hydroxide) to wash water for shifting certain soils or stains in particular blood. Commercial laundries would use sodium metasilicate, sodium hydroxide (aka lye), etc...

Posted this link before, and am doing so again as it breaks down pretty much what's in Persil (American) and Tide liquid format laundry products. You can see much of things on a long and exhaustive list are either in aid of solving a problem, and or bringing perceived consumer benefit.

https://cen.acs.org/articles/95/i4/PG-Henkel-head-head-laundry.html?PageSpeed=noscript


Huge issue with liquid format laundry products is for most part (except some pods IIRC), they don't contain bleaching agents. Thus liquid detergents have a vast and bewildering list of chemicals and other additives meant to provide a solution to that problem In other words substances that will remove or lighten stains, whiten and brighten, freshen, cope with odors, sanitize, etc....

Also keep in mind with wash temps decreasing for host of reasons, one part of wash pie has been affected (thermal action). Thus the remaining portions; chemical, time, water amount must be adjusted to manage. In this instance it is "chemicals" that have been adjusted.

One reason for lengthy list of chemicals and various additives in modern laundry products, (especially liquids) is to cope with lower wash temps and less (if any) use of chlorine or even oxygen bleaches.

Years ago detergent directions stated if washing in cool or cold water that dosage amounts should be increased. You don't see that today because modern products are already stronger to cope with fact it is expected wash will be done at ambient or cold temperatures.
 
Vinegar: I only sometimes add it to the final rinse, as a way to remove last traces of typically alkaline laundry detergents. But to protect washers parts, I add just a small amount of vinegar.

I don't know how vinegar would help if added to the detergent at the start of the cycle. I would think it would interfere with the detergent.
 
General public latched onto vinegar as a final rinse ...

Years ago after some bright blub pointed out that commercial laundries use sours in final rinse. Adding vinegar is supposed to decrease lint, make things softer, replace fabric softener.... Not all of this is true and the stuff can cause more problems than it solves.

First and foremost it was known for ages in commercial laundry circles that if one used a neutral soap (or later detergent), without excess free alkali there wasn't a need to use any sort of sour in rinses. Where such substance was required there are other acids available on that side of things (formic, oxalic, etc...) that do the job better than acetic.

Then there is fact acids can harm cotton, linen and some other fibers. Household vinegar is diluted to about five (5%) acidity. Adding small amount in relation to volume of water in washer likely will have various (if any) results laundry wise. OTOH using larger amounts is another matter. There you not only run risk of harming washer parts but textiles as well.

Remember if there isn't any excess alkali for a "sour" rinse to work upon it will not be neutralized and thus find something else to work upon.

Commercial/industrial washing machines are made from parts designed to withstand the often harsh highly acidic or base chemicals used. Domestic washing machines OTOH usually are not. This is one reason why products sold for strictly commercial laundering are marked "for industrial use only".

What kills me is people going on about using vinegar in final rinse when they've used a liquid detergent to "kill suds" or "act as fabric softener", or even better "remove detergent residue". Not a bit of it is true because due to nature of acids, and more to point since a liquid product was used there wasn't any alkali (washing soda, sodium metasilicate, sodium hydroxide, etc...) in large amounts that need neutralizing.

Above is one reason why commercial/industrial laundries have moved over to liquid products and or at least neutral wash products to get away from needed to use a sour rinse. This saves not only steps, but water and chemicals as well. [this post was last edited: 1/20/2021-18:03]
 
@ OP
"is there any advantage to using anything other than an "original" formula of a liquid detergent?"

I think no one but the manufacturers can really tell and they won`t tell you because they want to sell all the flankers that come with their "originals"

Of course we can compare ingredients lists and look for the number of enzymes and so on but then we`re still in the dark because we don`t know if expensive ingredients are also present in a sufficient quantity to do a good job.
Even consumer magazines do not always consider each and every aspect.
For example Tide pods in the US are rated good while last time tested in Germany Ariel pods (P&G`s TOL brand in the EU) were rather poor because a lot of dirt redeposited back on fabrics.

As to vinegar in the rinse, has anybody ever smelled fresh silicone caulk?
It smells like vinegar. I could imagine vinegar as a solvent in this stuff because once it`s dry and hardened the smell is gone.
Modern washer parts are made of silicone rubber instead of latex based rubber because silicone rubber is not susceptible to oils and grease. This might explain why acetic acid is a big no no in a washing machine.
 
Vinegar trend.

I absolutely agree with John and Landeress.
I don't know who put around the vinegar thing, but one thing is for sure, people most of the times don't know what they do, they believe and do whatever they read online lacking basic chemistry notions.
Click bait home improvement websites as well as "green-tree huggers" websites are the major responsibile shooting around BC's.
Vinegar maybe good to kill left alkalinity in clothes due to the use of very alkaline detergent, it's also good to kill mineral precipitations build up clothes due to the very alkaline solution.
But in most of occasions is not needed.Acid rinse is not even a softener itself, and it shouldn't be called as such, technically speaking it will be more like a reconditioner, meaning that it reconditions clothes to the natural softness whenever it has to reconditioned, say alkaline residues or mineral build-up.
Said thisit should never be mixed with powder detergent as it neutalize the water softening properties of the detergent, and most decent domestic detergent are very balanced to be just right.
As Launderess said it also kills me to see people using vinegar when using a liquid, anti does more harm than good not only to close that machines as acid running nothing to attack it will attack rubber.
And rubber will start to get to soft and peel off and disintegrate.
That's also what happens when you use too much or too often dishwasher cleaner with acid or you run too much descaling cycles and a lot of people today do that both in washing machine and dishwasher to clean them as they stink but of course without even knowing what they're doing because at best they have lotta gunk due to liquid use but not much mineral.
Anyway speaking of vinegar you have people using it for everything today, even as a rinse aid. LOL
Just like softener it doesn't do what rinee aid is supposed to do so create a film on dishes in order to have water drops dropping and not create residue hence dry faster.
That creates harm to the dishwasher as the acide water left in pipes ruins rubber and rinse aid dispensers gets trashed in no time solenoid gets bad and won't gold anymore the product, the constant contact and even more the fact that it warms up during the cycle makes dispenser destroy past and at best vinegar will create the mother inside the dispenser.
Today with the green spree you see very misleading instructions on cleaning vinegar as well as citric acid packages, products that are advertised to be green and natural.
 
Launderess, I was reading from you about pods-caps containing oxygen, if you recall it can you name a brand that does?
We know that the reason why liquids don't contain oxygen bleach it's because you cannot combine enzymes and peroxide in high volumes in a liquid solution as during the shelf time peroxide would denaturate enzymes, if kept separate like in a multi pouches pod they could do.
I just found one and liquid detergent containing oxygen and of course it didn't have enzymes.
 
Oh and I meant if you knew of some all-liquid pods.
Of course we do have Combi pods, powder+liquids, Dixan and so Persil for instance do have a version of Duo-caps and those do contain the oxigen stuff in powder form.
But there are others
I was curious to know if you knew some because the only sense I can actually find in the pods is that you can keep ingredients separate.
I am afraid though that inside the pouch the oxygen part would cause the pod to burst.
I say this because I noticed that many oxygen additives in gel form do have a vent under the cap top, guess that is because if stored in a place too hot oxygen will be released and could cause the bottle to explode.
Anyway, in the past do existed liquid detergent with a double compartment that you add to pour at the same time, one side had what the other couldnt contain.
Of course today the detergent makers wants people to buy separate additives as it means more profit for more products sold, OTOH is also true that in some loads certain ingredients may be just a surplus.
 
Laundress

I, too, am fed up with these rather BS claims that manufacturers can make such as 'hygienic' when the formula is not any different than before. There is nothing in the product that can guarantee it --> False Advertising.
However, if the product contained some newer additive like phosphodiesterase that is known to clean deeper into the fibers at a large range of temperatures, it would be a little different. However, these products do not contain anything as such.

I would be interested to see the review where the Ariel PODS were rated as 'poor'. Here in the US the Tide PODS are generally rated 'very good'.
 

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