Advice on washer/dryer/laundry room

[richardtb]

I have been reading the posts about washer and driers on the site, but I am still not sure what combination I should get.

We are doing a major remodel on a one story condominium in a high rise. So, we are going to build the laundry room from scratch, including picking a new floor. We are not all that concerned on water costs since we pay for those as part of our condominium fee. We are a family of three so we don’t need to wash all that many clothes.

What we are looking for is for a side to side washer and drier that will last a long time. The reason for this is that we will make sure that the contractors installs it properly and that the washer and drier are of the right fit for the laundry room, and we don’t want to have to redo these things for a long time. So, if the most expensive washing machine is going to last longer, that is an investment we are willing to make. Of course, given that we are in a high rise,
having a leak would be really bad. So, that is also something we would want to avoid!

Any suggestions?

 

[yogitunes]

well, for longevity in a new machine....the best bet for the money is a Speed Queen, and it doesn't matter if you go front load, or top load....there are a few models to choose from, and the FL pair will allow you to stack, or even mount on pedestals.....

one main thing for a second story install, is to include a drain pan that the washer will sit in, to contain any leaks or floods, from the machine....although keep aware of hoses or pipes leaking it will not prevent.....as a standard install, make sure the water spigots are within easy reach to turn off when not in use.....

and keep in mind, dryer venting, and how far it will have to travel......longer distances and in unheated areas can cause longer dry times, and problems down the road....

although water may not be a concern, what about electric, and or the thought of a gas dryer?.......FLers usually provide a higher spin speed, which can use less heated water, detergent, and energy, and reduce drying times....

one thing I hate about closed areas of a laundry, or places like a condo or small home, is what you don't realize, is that the dryer is sucking out your A/C or heated air.......sometimes you can luck out and have it in a small room that can be closed off, with a window that will allow the exchange of air....just a thought!

 

[DADoES]

 
The only way a pan under a washer is really effective is it it has a plumbed drain.  Otherwise, the pan will overflow when it fills up in a serious machine leak and you're back at square-one.  A non-plumbed pan is OK if the homeowner keeps active watch on the machine during operation so as to catch a flood before it fills the pan, AND shuts off the water supply between washdays to avoid floods in the night or homeowner absence if the water valves go wrong.

 

[richardtb]

Thanks Yogitunes

The dryer has to be electric, because of condominium rules.

No, the laundry room will not be able to be located next to any windows.

When I was reading through posts, someone mentioned that Speed Queen washers were difficult to service. Is that true for both FL and TL?

 

[henene4]

SpeedQueen or...

MIELE!
Miele build the first Automaic washer here in Germany. They offer genius quality, perfect wash and rinse results, are the gentelest washers and dryers on the market (you can wash roses WITHOUT ANY DAMAGE in there), are really quiet, have a professional FU-Motor, last a long time (you can extend the waranty up to 5 years with Miele sevice what means best service), and, if the water level in the rinses is to low or the spinspeed is to slow, just ask Miele, they can reprogramm them as you want them to do. If that all quality is still not enough, you can buy little giant machines which are indeed professional machines which offer you more features and even stronger built quality. And the best thing: Miele offers you parts for AT LEAST 20 years. No joke, Miele still services machines produced 30 years ago.

 

[henene4]

Forgot to add...

Mieles have a patented WPS (Water Proof System), including a system that stops filling and a built water pan with a floating sensor which stops the machine from filling if any interior leakage has come up. And, if there is no venting, Miele offers condensing dryers which do not need a venting at all

 

[richardtb]

Miele

Thanks but I should have specified that I live in the US. Miele washer and driers are not longer sold in the US. I just double checked with their web site.

 

[richardtb]

Ignore previous message about Miele

Miele are still sold in the US. I am not sure why I got confused.

 

[henene4]

The big capacity ones are not longer sold. But indeed, they are not that often sold. But, i think, the prices are incedible high. Like a little giant coasts 2000$+, not including the drier. But, on the other hand, these little giants have a 5000 wats heater, offer boilwashing (195°F,90°C), hardend steel bearings, 4 130 Newton hydrulic dampers (2 60-100 N are standard) and offer cycle times of an hour within heating up the water fom 20°C to 60°C. The water-temp is ensured for 10min at least, 30min on higenic setting. But the household standard ones are still incedible reliable,

 

[yogitunes]

sorry....my bad....and assumed....that for the most part, anyone installing a pan would have it hooked to a drain system.....that should be a no brainer....

the best I ever had installed in an apartment was for a stacked set up, using an actual shower pan, a little higher lift to get the machine in place, but the center full size drain was a great option compared to the 3/4"-1" drain on the standard pans......the whole enclosure was from a shower install design, with the outlet waterproofed, even if the hose did break, it was fully contained...

SQ's can be serviced from the front.....another reason they are used in coin laundries...

shop around...compare models....let us know how you make out

 

[richardtb]

SQ

According to this site the SQ FL seems to have quite a bit of vibration
http://www.vibrationsolution.com/blog/tag/speed-queen/

Should that make me concerned about the long term reliability of their FL models?

 

[combo52]

Best Long Term Laundry Appliances [ for use in the US ]

Speed Queen either TL or FL washer are great, however if I could only have one washer I would go with the FL machine.

 

I have had the SQ FL for about eight years now with no problems, it is a no nonsense machine that does exactly what you want-tell it to do. With an estimated life approaching 50 years in normal home use [ and 21/2 times longer than even Mieles life expectancy ] it would be hard to ever really wear one of these washers out.

 

SQ FL machines DO have vibration issues when installed on spongy wooden floors, as a dealer for SQ [ and many other brands ] I try not to sell SQ FL washes for installation on weak flooring, but we have never had an issue when installed on concrete floors [ noise is not bad either].

 

 

Mieles are very well built sophisticated washers and dryers but, Service is a major issue in this country, even here in the Washington DC area you ave a difficult time getting them fixed and I have never seen any data to prove they are all that reliable. Also judging from the number that I see trashed every year people are either having problems or are just tired of paying outrageous repair bills and dealing with the two people in the whole area that will even look at the machine.

 

Even if one wanted a Miele washer don't waste your time and money on the matching dryer. No appliance maker anywhere in the world makes better dryer than what is available here in the US. A Miele dryer is 1/2 the size and one 1/2 the heating wattage of a US electric dryer, there is nothing they can do to make up for their small size and low powered heaters that makes them even close to a great dryer.

 

[richardtb]

Laundry room floor

Thanks combo52. At this stage I can pick the floor for the laundry room. Are you suggesting that concrete is best, or would tile be just as good?

 

[combo52]

Best Long Term Laundry Appliances [ for use in the US ]

Only the sub-floor needs to be concrete, it should not matter much what type of finished floor you want on top.

 

[henene4]

How can you say that todays SQ-washers last 50 years? And why have SQ a 21/2 times higher life expectancy? Mieles are proofed to run 10 years without failure. And, by the way, its still more effective using low heat and high airflow on drying clotes. Guess you never dried in a Miele dryer? And there is no matter on the wattage of the heater. These dryers take an hour for drying as these SQ will do, to. And, as said, i think there was an issue of venting. And SQ doesn't offer any condensor dryer. How can you proof SQ lasting 50 years?
By the way, one question at all, how are the tubs on a SQ frers are supported? 4 or 2 absorbers? 4 or 2 springs?

 

[mrb627]

Dryers

Funny, I have both a SQ dryer and a Miele and I have to agree, there is no comparison. The SQ dryer wins, hands down! End of Story. The Miele runs cooler and may be more efficient, but it has difficulty completing a cycle in an hour. I have had a standard load of towels take as much as two hours to dry in the Miele. The same load of towels would take no more than 50 minutes in the Speed Queen. Even though the SQ FL washer doesn't reach the spin speed of the Miele washer...

Malcolm

 

[richardtb]

Contractor buying washer/dryer

Maybe this is a bit off the topic for the forum, but I will give it a try! Our architect told us that we should have have our general contractor buy and install all the appliances (we are getting all new appliances). This way we make sure that everything is working fine and is installed correctly. Does anyone have any opinions of whether this is a good idea or not?

 

[pierreandreply4]

i think the choice of the dryer also tempends on the selected temp of the dryer or where the dryer is located i have a 2004 whirlpool duet dryer a normal load takes about 45 minutes on high heat time dry cycle as my dryer is located near an outside wall witch can take time for the dryer to heat if cold air comes in from the dryer vent

 

[pierreandreply4]

i would say its a good idea but you need to make sure the washer plumbing do not leak after

 

[combo52]

Two and a Half times longer life

I am only going by what each manufacturer claims, Miele often makes the claim that their washers can last 10,000 loads. SQ factory representatives have repeatedly told us that their FL washers are designed to be structurally sound for around 25,000 loads, at eight loads a week that is well over 50 years.

 

[yogitunes]

Keep your ears and eyes open!

well....a few things to consider with a contractor.....

usually they install the bottom of the line cheapest appliance there is.....which usually needs replacing within a few years.....

and they also charge a certain percent higher cost for the appliance than if you got it yourself......

now if you can work a deal that he purchases the appliance you want, at the same cost it would be for you, that may be a different story...

this also falls true for your heating/air and water heater among other things....if he is doing several apts in your complex, guaranteed their all the same model that he got as a package discount.....most likey wont be TOL....if it is, you will probably pay 2 to 3 times what it really cost....

I have yet to see any contractor install any TOL appliance.....not without a substantial increase in price....

keep your eyes peeled.....I have yet to see a contractor, as a standard, install anything better than what he would put in his own house......not that all are bad guys, just stay on your toes, and check things out and ask questions....

 

[frigilux]

Cheapest flood/leak insurance: Have your plumber/contractor install a short-throw, single lever water shut-off valve for your washer. You can then shut off the water at the end of wash day. I have two old-fashioned faucets (one for the hot water hose to the washer, the other one for cold) that are easily reached, so I shut off the water when I've finished my last load of the day. You'll never have to worry about burst hoses causing a flood. As I said, it's the cheapest insurance money can buy.

Good luck with your remodel, and we love photos here, so if you think of it, take one of your laundry room when it's all set up and post it here!

Calling John (combo52): I don't know if I've described the water valve shut-off thing accurately. Is there a more common name for the device I'm talking about?

 

[laundromat]

I have two different Whirlpool Duet sets with risers.One Seth is new (2011) and the other is from 2004.They are in pristine condition and are used daily.I also have an LG MEGA CAPACITY artIst are stacked.however they are wider (29.5")but they have a cool recirculating spray that is located on either side of the interior blot.Then,at the very center of the upper boot,there's a jet spray for the rinse.LG has earned high recommendations they have been listed as having fewecasesr repairs.in their washers, dryers according to CT.Net mega capacity pair has a 5.1 cut ft capacity and easily washes my king size down comforter,bedspread,skirt,flat and fitted. Sheets,bedliner and four pillow cases.yesterday,I washed there seven by four feet hall runners.I used the sanitize cycle,Gain
ND Clorox got everything came out clean as new and look great.I can was large area rugs too.We have there right ft by two ft runners in the hallway.Even though they're bulky and have a sort of burlap type fabric.They washed up great using the Sanitary cycle.

 

[richardtb]

Thanks for all the good suggestions

Thanks for all the good suggestions, but it will take a long time for the job
to be completed and pictures to be posted. It needs condominium board approval (condominium sends it out to an outside architecture firm to check the design), city approval (which usually rejects the designs a couple of times),..., so it will probably take another 8 months.

 

[richardtb]

Subfloor

The sub floor has to be wood. So, does this mean that I should be sticking to at TL washer? Or can I get FL and have it bolted to the floor?

 

[qualin]

Richard,

A top loading washer would provide less vibration and won't shake your flooring as much.

Other FL washers have a setting to allow for wooden floors by lowering the spin speed or doing more redistribution cycles to provide for less vibration.

I'd say that a SQ Top loading machine would be your best bet in your situation.

If water use is a serious concern, you'd be better off with a smaller European style front loader machine, such as a Miele or an Asko, with the downside that you'll have less of a load capacity.

 

[richardtb]

Summary of suggestions

Since the price of water is not a concern for me, it sounds like the way I should go is a Speed Queen TL and get a single lever water shut-off valve for your washer.

 

[richardtb]

Size of Speed Queen

My wife just noticed that all the TL washer is only 3.3 cubic feet, so we would not be able to wash comforters in it. So, that suggests either taking comforters to the laundry mat or going for the Miele?

 

[combo52]

Preventing Water Damage From Washer Problems

Hi Eugene, having a quick and convenient way to shut off the water supply is always a good thing to have, I am not sure that there is a general name for that type of shut -off valve but you described it well, however in my experience turning off the water when you are finished using a washer will at best only eliminate less than 25% of the water damage caused by automatic washers. Inlet hoses are of such good quality nowadays that burst hoses are very rare and of coerce if you have a high chance of damage from a leak I would get premium hoses [ without the troublesome built-in shut off valves ]. The most likely time an inlet hose ever bursts in when the washer is in use, from vibration of the washer, the surges caused from inlet valves opening and closing and from the temperature changes the hoses experience when very hot or even cold pass through them.

 

The washer itself is going to account for 90% of leaks and floods, not to even mention the possibility of the stand-pipe backing up.

By far the best way to build a flood safe laundry room is a waterproof floor slopped to a decent floor drain. It is very much like dryer fires the best way to avoid serious damage from a dryer fire is a sprinkler system in the laundry room, no amount of dryer cleaning and proper use of a clothes dryer will guarantee that you will never have a fire.

 

[richardtb]

Thanks combo52

Thank you for the clarifications, they are very helpful.