Another Doorbell Question

[rp2813]

A while back I posted about an antique ringer I wanted to install to replace a modern "Avon calling" doorbell in our new house. 

 

I've run into an issue I don't know how to resolve.  I've found a transformer with the correct voltage for proper ringer operation, but have deduced that there's already a transformer somewhere between the existing doorbell and the switch by the front door that doesn't provide compatible voltage for the ringer. 

 

Is there a standard location for transformers?  The attic access opening is so small that I can't fit through it, but maybe a smaller person could.  Is the attic the likely place to find this thing, or could it possibly be in the wall behind the existing doorbell (I was going to mount the ringer on the existing doorbell's wooden cover so I didn't detach the assembly from the wall)?  I know for sure that something older had to be used here originally, so am wondering if the original transformer has been bypassed or replaced, or if the new doorbell happened to work off the same voltage.

 

Any suggestions for resolution are appreciated.

 

 

 

[ea56]

Ralph if there is a hall closet or coat closet located near the front door sometimes I’ve seen the doorbell transformer located inside the closet over the door. Thats all I can think of, but you may hit paydirt looking for it there.
If fact, ours is located in the closet that is under our staircase, on the wall, the doorbell is located on the other side of the wall.
HTH
Eddie[this post was last edited: 8/3/2018-17:15]

 

[circlew]

Ralph, my house originally had the transformer in the attic right above the doorbell in the entry below. I later moved it to the basement. Many times they may be found near a circuit breaker or fuse panel.

 

[iowabear]

Mine (in a 1956 house) is in the basement next to a light bulb fixture.  It's right over my washer and dryer so I noticed it right away, but I didn't realize what it was for until later.

 

[petek]

Ours (1958) is also in the basement close to a light bulb fixture.

 

[rp2813]

No luck locating it in any of the suggested spots.  Maybe if I poke my head into the attic (that's about all of me that can fit through the access panel anyway) it might be right there within reach.

 

[ea56]

Ralph,I’m pretty sure that the transformer for your doorbell is going tobe located somewhere very close to where the doorbell is on the wall of you house. If the opening for your attic is some distance away for the doorbell, and you can’t fit into the attic, you may have to bite the bullet and have a handyman or electrician take care of this for you. I’d try a handyman first, will be less costly.
Eddie

 

[brisnat81]

Hey Ralph

Have someone stand at the door with their finger on the bell and start switching off circuit breakers.

When the bell stops you should hopefully find out which part of the house is interrupted and should narrow down the search area. (This assumes the wiring isn’t a rats nest)

Just another suggestion

Cheers

Nathan

 

[philr]

I do have a doorbell transformer beside my circuit breaker panel but I also have one in my attic which is mounted to the attic light's junction box. I don't know what this one is used for but I know that my doorbells are on 24 volts and that burns out the lights in the door bell buttons quickly.

That reminds me that I should check this transformer to see if it works as one of my doorbells at the back doesn't work. The other two are linked to the one in the basement.

 

[rp2813]

The Goldilocks power level seems to be 8 volts for the ringer.  12 is too much, 5 not enough (going off of miscellaneous power converters I had laying around).  I don't know what the voltage is on the current bell, and I can't find replacement batteries for my Radio Shack multi-meter. 

 

I have a feeling Eddie is correct and that the transformer is behind the existing doorbell.  It's in the kitchen, which strikes me as a typical 1920's location for an old ringer.  I'll have to pull the whole thing off the wall and see if there's anything back there.

 

Flipping breakers is a good suggestion, but I don't know how far I'm willing to go in pursuit of a retro ringer either.

 

[dermacie]

My 1960s split level home has it's transformer attached to a light fixture in the laundry room.

 

[countryford]

In new houses, or at least the ones my brother-in-law builds, the transformer is usually right above the water heater. There is a blank outlet cover and right behind that is the transformer. You could check to see if there are any blank outlet covers up near the ceiling. 

 

[rp2813]

Thanks Justin!  There are some blank covers in the basement (where the water heater used to be) and other parts of the house, so I'll check them out.

 

The house was built in 1922, but all wiring was recently updated and I think the new clunky doorbell was part of the kitchen remodel.  It's possible that a new transformer was installed for the new doorbell, so it might be behind a blank plate.  If I can find it, that would be really easy to swap out.

 

[rp2813]

EUREKA!

Yesterday I decided to poke inside an outdoor cabinet where I think the main electrical panel was originally located.  Lo and behold, there was a large junction box with a transformer on top, and that transformer was connected to a pair of 1922-looking wires via wire nuts (see pictures).

 

I undid one of the wire nuts, separated the two wires, then tried the existing (working) doorbell.  No response.  This confirmed that I found the associated transformer.  Yay!

 

So then I got the ringer I've been wanting to install and the 8v transformer that it likes.  I removed the existing transformer and wired everything up again with the 8v one.  No ringer action.  In case of a fluke, I took off the doorbell switch out front and touched its wires together.  This produced tiny sparks but no ringer response.

 

Now I'm wondering if distance has something to do with voltage loss.  I would say there's at least 30' of wire between the transformer and the ringer.  I connected the ringer at the junction box and it worked.  Could distance be the trouble, and if so, is there a formula to figure out how much I may need to up the transformer voltage?

 

 

 

[abcomatic]

My house was built in 1897. The doorbell is so cool. All you have to do is to turn the bell, which is inside on the door woodwork, to the right or clockwise and that winds the bell. You push the button outside and it unwinds the bell inside, which makes it ring. No electricity or transformers and it is loud too. Have fun with this. Gary

 

[sfh074]

Looks like ......

You are getting about a 20% voltage drop @ 30'if that is 24 awg wire.

https://www.calculator.net/voltage-...stance=30&distanceunit=feet&eres=1&x=103&y=12

I'd try a 10v transformer. Seems like a 12v transformer is more common and since it is a momentarily circuit, I'd bet it would be just fine. 12v in the calculator shows 9.6v at the doorbell after voltage drop due to 30' of 24awg wire. If you can find a 10v transformer, that would be 8.1v at doorbell.

 

[sudsmaster]

Glad you found it, Ralph.

I was going to suggest you look at a breaker panel. The 24 volt transformer for my doorbell(s) is in a small transformer that is resting on top of the main breaker panel in the front hall entry closet. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of electrical code when it comes to these things. Or, at least, observed electrical code.

In case you haven't already tried it, I suggest connecting the new bell directly to the transformer you want to use with it. 8 volts seems like a very odd value. And, check whether the bell wants AC or DC, and that the transformer matches. Most bell transformers seem to be AC input and output.

 

[rp2813]

Bud, thanks.  I'm guestimating at 30' because I can't see where or how the ringer wire is routed.  It could easily be much less, but I think 10v is what I should shoot for.  I'll dig around for one.  

 

Rich, I already tested the ringer with various transformers and got no ringer action with anything other than 8v.  I can't remember at the moment if it's AC or DC.

 

Gary, the 1905 house next door to us when I was a kid had a similar in-door ringer.  As I recall it had to be cranked from the outside by the visitor.  I've not heard of they mechanism you described.  It must have been a deluxe version.

 

Here's a link to the first thread about this ringer:

Antique Doorbell (Ringer) Installation

I'm hoping for some help with installation of what I suspect is a 1920s vintage doorbell, the old school type with coil box, exposed gong and clapper. It may have been the original from our current home, which we'll be vacating by the end of this month, and has been in a drawer in the garage...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[sfh074]

This would probably be enough .....

if the wire run is 30' or less.

If the doorbell has 2 wound coils, it is AC powered. Actually don't think I have ever seen a doorbell powered by DC ...... unless it is much newer.

Pardon Our Interruption...