Anyone know anything about this? GE limits Hot Water

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

A

artcurus

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
256
Location
Odessa
Post from a different board...

Good luck to anyone purchasing a new washing machine. EPA has decided to get involved in our laundry. I have a GE/Hotpoint top loading, nothing fancy, purchased January 2016 - am I sorry!!!. HOT water is limited to 94 degrees, per EPA regulations - there is a sensor limiting how hot is HOT. The agitator is a sick-acting movement with no energy, leaving little to NO turnover to clothing. Those are the 2 most irritating problems, not even mentioning how the lid fell down on my nose and knocked my glasses into the tub. Tub is plastic. No buzzer when load is DONE. I'm going downstairs now to count the agitations per minute. Yes, Thank you Government Officials. I live in country, where dirt, grease, manure are common laundry issues. I now fill the tub with a bucket filled from nearby laundry tub. Sometimes I wash my load 2 times. Handy, huh?
 
Why I prefer a front loader.  Ones with heaters do have cycles which can get 130 and 154 degrees. A prewash and an extra rinse or two would accomplish what you want in a front loader and that won't use exorbitant amounts of water each fill. 
 
Well why so harsh?

People buy what they're told to buy, if they have no technical knowledge in what they're after. After all, not every human in the world has a degree in laundry.
If one goes to a store and sees an item called a washing machine, one would assume it would actually be a washing machine indeed.

I just personally think it's false advertising to feature a "hot" water selection while in fact what you get is 94F. Other than that, it's not the consumer's fault they ordered french fries and got a baked potato. Its the manufacturer's of mislabeling.
 
Cheap plastics

I yet have to see any kind of plastic that is moldable at 140 or lower. So, I doubt its the plastic.

Further, I doubt all cycles are limited. Its the typical rating cycle effect: Temperatures reduced to meet energy requirements. I am pretty sure other cycles might go higher temperature wise.
And, honestly: Here in the EU, if you select a energy label 60C/140F cycle, you mostly get 100F at best. So, yeah, that seems the international oirm now.
 
I think this has become the norm these days. Shame that EPA felt the need to get involved in all of this. You really can't buy a decent top load washer anymore without spending what a good front loading one would cost. Amazing that front loading machines are so far superior to top loaders today too. Certainly didn't used to be that way. Whether or not speed queen will be allowed to continue making a top loader that uses what the EPA considers an excessive amount of water and true hot water, remains to be seen. I look for the hammer to come down on them too. They are the very last of an almost extinct breed.
 
The seals

might be less durable also, not just the EPA energy standards. By the way, those are world wide now. 8 billion people use a lot of energy up. That also makes more pollution.
More environmentally friendly parts might be less durable. Not only to make, but to recycle.
Look at the bigger picture.
When the bees began disappearing, we knew something was wrong also. No bees, no agriculturally grown produce.
Not that I like being forced to buy and pay for a lower quality appliance than I had before either, but I've planted lots of flowers and a butterfly garden, and I have lots of bees around my property now.
You can not grow corn that yields kernels unless you plant several rows so bees can cross pollinate them. Plant only one or two rows, and all you get are stalks.
 
94F Wash Temperature

If only I could get my customers to wash in water that hot, LOL    The majority of the washers I work on day in and out are set on cold water wash.

 

With today's detergents you should be able to get any  normal laundry clean at this temperature, however if you have really heavy soil loads hot water will work better and require less detergent to get the job done.

 

It would be fairly easy to do a work around to cause the washer to fill with your full hot water, you could also fill the machine with a hose for wash from the sink.

 

The hot water will not hurt the seals and tub etc, in fact about the best thing you could do for the seals is use  of hotter water, I think all can agree that the increase in seal and bearing failures we have seen in the past decade is at least partly blamed on cold water washing.
 
My washer is very capable with hot water, though the control panel gets misty (a reason why lettering fades on a lot of vintage machines, & even causing deterioration of buttons, levers and knobs) and the water fills very slow!

 

I do hope hot water and a washer's ability to admit it (if i can't keep my vintage machines running forever) will be here to stay!

 

 

-- Dave
 
Recently bought a new Washer/Dryer

<span style="font-family: courier new,courier;">  </span>
<span style="font-family: courier new,courier;">I have had a Front Loader since about 2002.  I was considering one of the new TL HE machines with no traditional agitator.  At the end of the day I stayed with the Front Loader because I really am happy with the results I get and I know they with give great results in less water.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: courier new,courier;">What was interesting was the sales man at one place told me in the next few years we likely won't even find a TL machine with an agitator because they are being phased out.  He said the only ones he has fill about 1/2 way, won't give you a hot wash and he said the agitators don't really even move any more just the tubs move which really don't do much.    </span>

 

<span style="font-family: courier new,courier;">I really considered the TL HE machine but I just can't see how I can put something like a king size comforter in there and get it clean.  How would that thing move around?  Even though they use less water than a traditional TL machine they still use more than a FL machine.  I'm happy with my choice of new machine.</span>
 
well, before we consider the dubbed down temp.....

what exactly is you water heater set at?...

the most temp loss in one of my HE TLers is a 10 degree drop.....
granted my water heater is set at 160.....

so even at 150, most internal heaters can't give me that....

but if your water heater is set at around 120, by the time it gets to the machine, it has already lost close to 10 degrees....and then the machine may dubbed down even more.....that could explain most luke warm washes...

as John mentioned, fill it manually with a separate hose.....but again, I don't consider 120 to be all that hot....

purging the lines before starting the machine is a help.....

a few of us have either removed the restrictor on the hot side, or even drilled out the valve on that side to allow more of that temp to enter....

and a lot of these new machines are rigged to know if the correct water lines are hooked up.....

had one lady call me after hooking up her new machine, as it gave an error code from the start.......she only had a COLD line available for the washer, as that was all she used from the old machine.....still would not work with TWO hoses hooked to the cold water line...

there are a few that can get around this, and a few you can't fool.....

as for HE TLers.....once you get past the mental part of low water usage, consider the concentrated detergent lather and water temp, versus that impellor going t it alone to clean......even with a regular TLer full of water, you detergent is not diluted greatly!.......which is going to give you a better clean?....
 
@yogitunes,

The 2015 Speed Queen we bought or the 1990's Maytag that I put a water pump in and now it works fine. No question about it. HE top load machines are crap.

My sister bought an LG top loader in 2010, there's animal hair involved with these loads of clothes and sometimes it does not come out without another 2 hour or longer wash time. Between constant "unbalanced load" error, sometimes it takes much much longer. She follows the instructions exactly. The tub rusted out of the 1990's Maytag she was using, but it worked 100x better than the LG that replaced it.

You can't replace true hot/warm water wash and enough water to get the job done, period.
 
won't let me edit up a true agitator is the reason why these older machines clean so well. There's videos on youtube for Speed Queen that shows the displacement and the movement of clothes in the washer. The usual test is a colored washcloth in a load of whites. With the SQ, the washcloth is clearly seen making the rounds with the load. On the HE machine, it sits on top of the load, and never moves.
 
A high concentration of detergent would be fine if the machine actually had some turnover. I suspect Artcurus is talking about a machine similar to my first TL HE: There simply isn't any turnover.

 

From an eco perspective, there's a larger problem, IMO. Apart from the 'stinky yoga pants' crowd, there are laundry-clueless people who do understand the concept of clean clothes. Eventually they'll start noticing that their 'clean' clothes are not clean. What will most of them do? They'll simply throw them into the hamper to be washed again.

 

Jim
 
This may seem like a silly thing--can you just turn off the cold water spigot on that GE when you want a hot wash?Or does that machine have the stupid,goofy circuits that won't let you fill it with hot unless as someone says you use a hose or bucket.
 
granted not all machines are created equal, that is also to say of variables in loads washed and the operator themselves.....

I have the Cabrios, one belt, and one direct drive.....at wash-in events, we have thrown all type of loads at this thing, more than enough water, steaming hot temp to be exact, add in the sprinkler....the wash water is dirty and the final rinse water is clear....most loads are 43 to 60 minutes tops...

I too have a dog, a constant shedding Siberian....a Kenmore belt drive was probably the only machine that would choke from all the fur...

the average consumer is not always aware of what they purchase, nor really concerns themselves with laundry.....

BUT, your talking about someone who belongs to a washing machine site?.....not informed?....not educated on laundry?...no one to ask?.....now, if there was just someplace for someone to turn to find out the true dirt on machines available today!...oh wait, have any of you guys visited Automaticwasher.org....not judging, just sayin'!

I alone have been through countless number of machines, different models and styles, some good, some surprising, and some not so great, those of course went back for a refund....

within a week or two of laundry, you will know if you like any machine or not....if its not up to your standards, take it back!

it is funny though, the Clean Washer cycle uses full, non dubbed down HOT water!....seems were going to fall back into the 50/60's.....the newest craze, machines that clean themselves!.....I look for this to become an automatic thing, as in the machine comes on in the middle of the night to clean itself!....like water softeners that regenerate while you sleep...
 
Martin, your belt-drive really choked on the dog fur?  That's a lot of fur!  And a real test for a washer.

 

I wondered if this new LG t/l washer would have a water temp sensor that would balk when the cold water was shut off to get a non-tempered hot fill.  Apparently, it's not that smart and will fill the 4.3 cu ft tub to the brim with tap-hot water.  OTOH, I've used it many cycles on the hot setting and just let it do it's thing, tempering my 140+ water as it wanted and had fine results.  I have softened water and use good quality detergent (I've read this site before :-) and have been perfectly satisfied with the washing and (cold) rinsing.  I'm sure there's a psychological connection to hot water and cleaning just as there is to copious amounts of water and cleaning, but I've been impressed with the results overall.
 
yeah, Greg, there are points where a Siberian looses that undercoat, comes off like cotton, you almost created a second dog once your done brushing her out....at these times, they are high maintenance, between the dog and surrounding areas...

in any case, you shake out and remove as much fur before any blanket goes into the machine.....every bit helps....first I was using a Kenmore, mainly it was the self clean filters that got blocked, changed out several different versions, finally removed it completely....then the pump would eventually jam up....but this was the only machine that gave issues for longer fur.....

heres a new topic, matching the machine to the breed/animal....lol

for your LG, or any newer HE machine out there, all you can do it try several ideas/tricks to get a hotter wash or more water added....try turning off the cold for the first fill, and see what happens, most times you can get away with just a trickle.....just remember to turn it back on full pressure as the rinses are all cold...

yeah, mentally getting past a few things is difficult to comprehend.....in the 50/60's, washing of white cottons was hot water and bleach was the only way to get them clean....today realizing cooler temps work for something like this, granted bleach is a must, but the actual bleach rinse is done in cold....just boggles your mind from what your used to....

stick with vintage for as long as you can if that's what your used to.....the new age of machines is here, and their never going to go back to the old ways, unfortunately....its a quick jump into the HE world, as before switching from a wringer to an automatic was a slow transition, plus wringers were still available for a long time after that....you had a choice, today, your not given one....
 
re-read the original post...

it is a shame the author of the comment on the other board didn't include a model number etc. Seems goofy to me. I am guessing (because I don't know for sure), but wouldn't a machine be branded either a "GE" or a "Hotpoint?" In the post it's called a "GE/Hotpoint". Which is it? If they are that ignorant of appliances, how would they know the connection between GE and Hotpoint?

Does it have ATC (which would govern water temp)? It is pretty much useless to comment on what the machine is/is not doing without knowing what it is.

Sounds like someone was just cranky and posted a lot of hot air.

Just my 2 cents :-)
 
Are built in heaters in washers

the next thing to go? Right now, we can get super hot washes because of our built in heaters. Someone on another topic a while back (I think it was Malcolm) said that built it heaters will be a thing of the past because of detergents being designed with cold water in mind. I REEEAAALLLLYYYY hope that isn't true. I need hot water.
Who would have thought that some TL washers the hottest temp would be 95F?
 
I hope not!!!!

 

<span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier;">I have purchased two washing machines since 2002 and in both cases the onboard water heater was in the 'must have' column and not the 'nice to have' column.  I sure hope it doesn't come to this.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier;">If they feel then need to regulate anything why don't they regulate the temp on your household water heater and let the individual appliances raise the temps.  Wouldn't that be more cost effective?  Better yet why not work to improve tankless models and ban these huge water heaters that people have in their homes and then offer incentives to move them to tankless models?</span>

<span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier;"> </span>

<span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier;">My water heater went out about two years ago.  I asked the plumber what it would cost me to convert to tankless and he told me to wait.  He said they still aren't there yet.  In my particular situation he said I would need two of them one at each end of the house because by the time the water travelled from one end to the other it would cool down.  That didn't make much sense to me (because the water travels that distance today) but I figured he must know what he's talking about because he was literally talking himself out of a bigger sale.  He also told me that given the current prices it could take 20 years to recoup the cost savings I might see in lower energy bills.</span>

<span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier;"> </span>

<span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier;">I have friends with the tankless models and they are happy with them but in both cases that have a home with two levels, both are new builds and in both cases the water heaters were in the attic so the water doesn't have to travel as far.  I have a 40 year old ranch.  One of them just had to replace a control board in theirs after about 8 years of use.  The part cost her about $200 and given she has experience in these areas she replaced it herself.  To have it done would have easily cost her twice that.</span>
 
Parent's house is a 60 year old ranch, we replaced a 50 gallon standing water heater with a gas tankless roughly ten years ago. Not a problem since. However, I've heard that electric ones are more problematic.

Regulating the temperature on standing water heaters is a bad thing. If the temperature is too low, it can breed legionnaires disease.
 
"If they feel then need to regulate anything why don't they regulate the temp on your household water heater and let the individual appliances raise the temps. "

Well, if the water heater is gas, now you're using electricity to heat water that could have been heated more efficiently with gas.

Although better electric water heaters are, in my experience, well insulated enough so that it only heats when you draw water, hardly ever when it's just standing. I remember when I moved into the first house I owned myself. I went away on a weekend trip and decided to try to save some electricity by shutting off the breaker to the electric water heater. I came home from the trip and all was well. Two days' worth of showers and dishwashing later, I had no hot water. Went to check on it and discovered I had forgotten to turn the breaker back on.
 
Good question.

Hot water use varies from households depending on family size. I keep mine just above warm. I have no need to heat water all day I'm not using.
Don't give them any ideas, but in Europe, tankless is the norm. Still expensive here, and I don't know how they perform under heavy use. Claims are that laundry, dishes, and showering can all be done at the same time. They don't say how many can shower at once.
 
 
My (electric) tankless is 12 years old, perfectly happy with it.  The alarmist warnings about tankless are overblown, largely related to people not understanding how to use them properly.
 
There are many ways to go with tankless

Large buildings and or anyone with huge hot water demands can use two or more tank-less heaters in tandem to provide constant hot water especially for multiple sources.

Another option is to add a storage tank which is popular when tapping a coil off a steam/hot water heat boiler. In fact most older buildings in NYC have "tankless" hot water in that a coil is run off of the steam (once likely coal but now oil or natural gas) boiler. Downside to this is having to keep that boiler on all year long though you can take down high water temp range a bit during warmer times of year since heat is not called for.

IIRC from Consumer Reports and other sources depending upon how much hot water is needed and ability of tankless heater a much larger gas line or electrical wiring may be required. They go on to say utilities dread the thought of massive numbers of customers going over to electric tankless as it would certainly almost require upgrading and perhaps put a strain on system.

While natural gas is another option not every home/building has or can get that fuel. Even here in NYC when a building that say once used oil (or coal) for heating/hot water wants to switch over to natural gas it may require a new main into the building to handle the demand. This is because the former pipe likely only supplied enough gas for the stoves/ovens.

Tankless heaters have been around since the early part of the last century. Some of those huge old Rudd units are still operating. IIRC however they were designed for how persons lived back then. That is baths were more common than showers. Cleaning everything from laundry to whatever was a matter of filling tubs and buckets. Either way you are talking about filling something with ten so gallons of water then stopping. For those that like to treat their shower time like a spa day, you obviously are going to need a far more constant and even source of hot water.
 
 
<blockquote>IIRC from Consumer Reports and other sources depending upon how much hot water is needed and ability of tankless heater a much larger gas line or electrical wiring may be required. They go on to say utilities dread the thought of massive numbers of customers going over to electric tankless as it would certainly almost require upgrading and perhaps put a strain on system.</blockquote> Exactly.  Heating water requires a specific amount of heat input per °F/C of temp rise and volume of water involved.  The amount of heat energy is the same whether tank or tankless ... but tankless must input it into the water in a MUCH shorter timeframe -- instantaneously as the water flow passes through the unit.  Electric utilities particularly detest electric tankless for the large demand draw that may occur.  They have to maintain sufficient reserve capacity to provide that draw at any moment.  A few electric tankless, not a large deal.  Several hundred or thousands = potential seriousness.  My unit can peak at 120 amps, which is 28,800 watts.  That rarely happens because I keep it set at a reasonable temperature for "normal" use, but it may happen in winter weather if I zap a load of whites at 140°F.
 

Similar threads

stuftrock1
Anyone know anything about post-FF GE washers?
Replies
25
Views
302
gelaundry4ever
G
johnbee
GE SPACEMAKER Not Hot water
Replies
3
Views
34
combo52
combo52
G
ISO advice: which vintage washer and dryer to buy for daily usage?
Replies
25
Views
755
sel8207
S
K
Speed Queen TR5 Noise issue
Replies
11
Views
191
keith
K
ea56
I Got a New Maytag Set
Replies
22
Views
174
johnb300m
johnb300m

Latest posts

Back
Top