Are gas wall heaters safe?

[sudsmaster]

Thomas,

 

Good to hear your landlord is so willing to fix, replace and upgrade. You MUST tell him about the heater issue, and the CO detectors going off.

 

It might be a result of the ceiling fan, but I don't know. Most ceiling fans have a reverse switch. If yours does, I'd try reversing it to see if there is less effect on the furnace flame... even with the new heater when it arrives, which I'm sure it will. And of course the flue also needs to be examined. Perhaps a chimney sweep could do that.

 

There are probably newer wall heaters that don't use a pilot light, but have an electronic ignition instead. The forced air gas furnace in the crawl space here has one of those, and it was installed in 1983. It does make a high pitched whine that I can sometimes hear when it's starting up, although I don't know if that is the igniter or the sound of the gas flowing. Once the furnace heats up the blower turns on and the whine cannot be heard.

 

I think new gas ranges and cook tops cannot have pilot lights any more, either. They are all electronic ignition.

 

The 40 gallon gas water heater here has a pilot light. Never given any problems, but then the water heaters is in a draft protected little closet all its own, with upper and lower screened vents, in the enclosed (but ventilated) patio. It would not surprise me if newer water heaters have also gone electronic ignition, but the philosophy seems to have been that the heat of a gas pilot isn't really wasted because the water in the tank is an effective heat sink.

 

 

[supersurgilator]

I would have called the fire department when the alarms went off. They usually have some kind of equipment that they can double check everything for that. They might have even gone on the roof as well and inspected the vent.

 

[rp2813]

Darryl, it sounds like both of you are on top of the situation regarding how to get action from the landlord (on site manager?).  I was wondering if there might be a property management firm in this mix, and that can be either a help or a hinderance.

 

Thomas stated that maybe a whole new unit could be installed, but even if that were to happen, if the flue is blocked, nothing will change.  Considering the age of the building, flue issues are a distinct possibility and again, I think this is the source of the problem.

 

Usually there's a way to adjust the pilot flame somewhere on the valve assembly, but it's not always obvious and would probably require a very small screwdriver or allen wrench.  On the wall unit in our den, you have to get up close to it before you feel any warmth from the pilot, and it's minimal.  I'd say the pilot flame on it is about an inch and a half long at most.

 

It sounds like the fan is stirring up dust in the area near the burner which would cause the yellow flame, and is also creating a draft across the burner itself.  The fan should be on its lowest speed and, if reversible, set to aim the air flow toward the ceiling.  I presume the gas company guy adjusted the flame for optimum performance, so if it's blue without the fan running, I'd leave that adjustment alone.

 

Basic thermostats are cheap.  Once the heater is back to non-poisonous operation, you could probably find one that doesn't have as wide a temperature swing (or has an adjustable swing) for little money and easily install it yourself.

 

 

 

[sudsmaster]

As I recall, all the thermostatically operated wall heaters I've seen are either on or off. No modulation of gas flow other than that. Older stand-alone heaters might have a gas valve one could modulate, but one also could risk the flame being so low it can get blown out, which obviously would not be good.

 

 

 

[thomasortega]

Problem solved! YAY!

Landlord came here today to install a doorbell (now i have the Jetson's doorbell LOL) and as soon as he arrived i told him about the heater and the alarms going off.

Immediately he almost panicked. And he could instantly remember several months ago he went to the roof to do something and he almost fell. He grabbed the flue.

At that time he didn't pay any attention as the flue didn't visibly move above the roof, however, the part between the roof and the ceiling fell.

He immediately went to the crawl space under the roof and saw the flue was fallen.

Situation: all the fumes were trapped between the roof and the ceiling, and backflowed through the hatch on the hallway ceiling, right next to the smoke alarm that is also a CO detector.

The alarms are linked so when one goes off, the others go off together (that explains the alarms going off at the same time).

I wouldn't expect a better solution knowing my landlord the way I know. He immediately said "for god's sake, please don't you dare to think about turning the heater on today. If the CO alarm didn't go off you could be dead now. Let's turn the pilot off just in case (well, it was already off). You know what? I won't fix that crap. It's almost 10 years old and I personally don't trust it. We never had any problems with it but i prefer to be on the safer side. I'll schedule with the technician to come ASAP and install a new heater AND replace the flue. I prefer to have everything brand new.

The heater is actually made locally (Williams) and he has a relative that works there, so he can get a new heater for a modest price.

Other thing my landlord did today: The porch had a light fixture that was missing the glass globe. The day i moved in he told me he was going to order and come to replace. I thought he was going to order the globe only. Well, he came today with a brand new (and cute) light fixture. And it's visible it's not the El Cheapo brand because that thing is heavy and visibly well designed and made. It also has some fancy features like a sunlight sensor, a motion sensor and it's Wi-Fi enabled.

he also helped me installing the two first blindings (he will replace 2 per month until all of them are replaced) and even touched up the paint to cover the area where the old blindings brackets were screwed.

When we were there, i asked him if he could indicate a window washer to clean the windows, he didn't know any, but he said "you know what? those windows are so old and ugly. Would you mind the mess if i replace the windows? Not right now, but one or two per month on the next months.

I chose this property alone and i decided on it because i was tired of looking for properties and not finding any that would be affordable. What made me pick this one was the huge laundry room downstairs and the brand new bathroom.

Right after I moved, I discovered the property is in one of the worst neighborhoods in los angeles. Now i literally live in the middle of the "hood", the famous zip code 90044. (AKA gheto, skid row, etc).

I was terrified when I discovered that, but my landlord is so cool that I'm starting to change my opinion. My neighbor (the front house) lives here for years and he also told me that we are right in the middle of a series of blocks that have impressively low crime rates because most of the surrounding neighbors own the properties and live in the area for several generations, so drug dealers, gang members, etc are not welcome and don't feel welcomed in this area.

Oh, and next year he will remodel the kitchen, get rid of the old cabinets (horrible by the way) and a silly triangle on the corner that makes the kitchen even smaller. I will have space to have a decent dishwasher YAY.

For now, I'll be more than happy with a 4-service countertop Haier DW that Kevin found in Sacramento and brought to me. He tested it and it works great! i'll pick it up tomorrow night.

 

[thomasortega]

Ad before I forget... The property manager (a company) is a PITA.
It's the kind of person that want to make the property as profitable as possible by being scrooge with everything, while the property owner is proud of the property and is always trying to find ways to make improvements and he doesn't care if he's going to spend all the rent profit on improvements.

Today we had a nice conversation about that when he told me he doesn't give a shit to what the manager says, It's his property and he will invest as much as needed to make it better as soon as it fits his budget. He also said he's very happy to have me as a tenant because he could already see i am very careful with things and also very clean. (considering the cleaning miracle i did here, because the apartment was NASTY when I moved in and even being in the middle of a moving, he could see I try to keep things clean and organized, so he's not afraid of investing because he knows I'll be careful with everything as if they were mine.

he also told me to never address any issues to the manager, but talk directly to him if I want immediate solutions.

He also asked me to help him by giving ideas of what can be done to improve the property. I almost told him to get rid of the wall heater and put a central A/C and furnace LOL.

 

[foraloysius]

Williams heaters:

https://www.williamscomfortprod.com/product-category/heating-solutions/

 

[sudsmaster]

Very good news, Thomas. It has occurred to me that there was a roofing problem there, and sounds like in a way, there was.

 

However central HVAC is probably not gonna happen, not in an apartment, I would think. I'm assuming there's a window or through the wall AC unit in that place...?

 

 

[rolls_rapide]

Your landlord sounds as though he is a thoroughly decent chap, willing to upgrade in agreement with yourselves.

You get some landlords who either: (a) do nothing whatsoever (like Rigsby in 'Rising Damp'; or (b) let upgrades drag on seemingly forever.

 

[rp2813]

What a great report, and what a great landlord! 

 

I'm not questioning his motives for making improvements, as I'm sure he wants to make them for you, but he also benefits when he files his taxes, so it's a win/win. 

 

We have a friend who owns a 4-plex, and he's in the process of replacing wall ovens and cook tops for his tenants.  Some are the originals from 1960, made by Frigidaire.  He needs the write-offs.

 

JMO, but a ten year old wall heater is something I'd consider to be nearly new.  There's not a lot to go wrong with the heating unit itself, but hey, if he wants to replace it, why not?

 

When you said you landed in "one of the worst neighborhoods in Los Angeles" I immediately thought Boyle Heights.   I think South Central might actually be better.   When I visit L.A., I spend most of my time in the area from downtown and points north of there, and my sister lives not all that far from Boyle Heights.  At least you're near the 110, which gives you a straight shot to the cultural centers.

 

[thomasortega]

Brand new Williams heater..

I should change the thermostat indicators, instead of temperatures, it should have bake, roast, toast, incinerate.

The model that was here was 50% less powerful than the unit he installed today. Jesus, that darn thing works like a charm. If i turn on the ceiling fans, nothing happens to the flame (but my apartment turns into a giant convection oven)

It doesn't make the "whooop" anymore every time it kicks in, super silent.... Well, super silent except for the contraction/expansion noises, that are absurdly loud (almost like dropping a baking pan on the floor). Also there is no gas smell at all and after 2 hours running, with all the windows closed, the alarm didn't go off.

He literally replaced everything from the gas valve to the cap on the end of the flue. Everything brand new, except for the external body that was perfect. But i have the feeling the HVAC technician washed it because its white is shining.

Well, tomorrow morning you'll know if it worked. Worst case scenario, i'll wake up roasted like a Thanksgiving turkey.

 

[sudsmaster]

Worst case scenario, i'll wake up roasted like a Thanksg

... or not wake up at all...

 

Please post to let us know the new heater didn't put you to sleep permanently!

 

 

[thomasortega]

LOL

Nope, Just in case the landlord installed three more CO detectors in the space between the ceiling and the roof and I also found a CO detector I had, put batteries in it and it's now in the living room.

I tested is in several different ways (living room and bedroom doors closed, doors open, fans off, fans on, even set it to the maximum temperature and waited until the thermostat turned it off) (actually i was like a thanksgiving turkey and I turned it off before it reached the maximum temperature). None of the now 9 alarms went off.

And it's getting cold here in LA, so since then i turn the heater on when I arrive home around 9 pm and turn it off only when i wake up in the morning. (or when i wake up around 5 am feeling like a turkey and run to turn it off and open the kitchen, bathroom and office door to cool down a bit.

 

[sudsmaster]

Your next step could be to get one of the newer programmable "setback" thermostats. With those you tell it to come on by itself in the moring with a certain target temp, then back off after you've left for work/school/whatever, come back on just before you're due home again, then back off about the time you plan to retire for the night. They are relatively inexpensive (under $50) and very simple to install (just hook up two wires in the wall from the old stat to the new one) and program. Mine is a Lux 1500 I got about ten or more years ago. It needs a new battery every year or two but other than that it's been trouble free. Oh, and you can manually override the set temp any time you like. Like turn it up at night or down during the day.

 

 

[thomasortega]

I want to get something with WI-Fi (compatible with Bixby).

Not that I really need it, but to have the comfort to turn on the heater before I arrive home and also by the morning i can ask Bixby to turn it off instead of running naked around the house to reach the thermostat.

But I have no idea if it would work, as the heater uses a milivolt thermostat, super simple. I haven't researched anything about that yet.

 

[mattl]

Milivolt systems are tough to control with WiFi, but I did fond a Lux thermostat that will work on your system.

http://https//www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=18&ved=0ahUKEwib-9Xq4u_XAhWP0YMKHcHrBsAQFgjtAjAR&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.luxproducts.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2Fgeo-bl_manual_en.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1ygOTdLRxEiZa1cFWzlVwy

 

[sudsmaster]

"running naked around the house to reach the thermostat."

 

Bathrobes are inexpensive and reliable.

 

If you have regular wakeup times, a set back thermostat can fire up the heater before you wake up, even better than wifi.

 

 

[tolivac]

If you have closed curtains-most folks close those at night-and you are naked-they will never know!

 

[thomasortega]

To whom it may concern

My Williams Gas wall heater didn't manage to kill me yet.

The CO alarms didn't go off anymore (I actually forgot to hit the test button this week, will do that tomorrow morning)

It works... well, it heats... My gas bill is absurd as I sleep with the heater on every nigh to try to keep 80°F as the walls are not insulated and they get very cold at night. (Don't judge me, I'm brazilian, so anything below 80°F i'm almost wearing a scarf)

My bedroom get somewhat warm if i close the door. The living room has a huge gap under the entrance door and I can feel the cold air entering when the heater is on. No matter what I do, the living room is always much colder.
I thought about putting one of those "snakes" in front of the door to prevent dust from entering, but then i thought maybe it's not a good idea because it may affect the airflow to the flue. Right?

The other bedroom (office), even if i set the thermostat to 90°F and leave the doors open will always be cold. I'd roast in my bedroom while the other bedroom would always be freezing cold.

Right now the weather is getting a little bit warmer in southern California, so I'm starting to sleep with the thermostat set to only 75°F.

I still hating the noises it does. After the heater was replaced, it stopped doing the "whooop" noise every time it turns on, but every time it turns off it makes that metal noises like an oven cooling down.

Other thing i hate about this heater is keeping it clean. Jesus! that thing collects dust better than a vacuum cleaner filter. A few days ago Darryl and I took the front cover off and vacuumed everything. Now I just looked at it and it's covered with a black dust again.

Actually, I still don't know it that black dust is caused by the heater or if it's the air pollution from outside being sucked under the door by the heater.

No matter how much i vacuum and clean (and I use the hoover floormate once a week), the living room floor is always so dirty that i walk with bare feet and my feet gets black.

 

[thomasortega]

Off topic. (not so off topic because i believe the dust is caused by the heater)

Who invented the hoover constellation is probably a sociopath and deserves a slow and painful death.
Every time i turn the vacuum cleaner on i can see it blowing all the dust on the floor. (lamiante)

Then when i'm vaccuming, the vacuum hits my ankles all the time (almost like a shopping cart)... or the walls, the furniture, the closet doors (glass)

And when i really need to take advantage of the floating feature, it gets jammed on it's cord, so i have to lift the vaccuum.

The only way to vacuum without hurting myself or breaking something or putting marks on the walls is holding the canister with one hand and vacuuming with the other.
Sometimes I'm vacuuming and the hose touches my leg and it always grab and pull some hair. Veet hose? Satinelle Hose? Ouch!

But that's ok, as soon as possible I'll get a Bissell Crosswave, as I wash my floors once a week and using the hoover floormate is a hassle as the head is too bulky. And using the floormate as a dry vacuum is the same as nothing.