Are New Appliances Always Doomed? Why A Grass Roots Movement Could Change Things

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Chetlaham

Chetlaham

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This video makes an excellent case as to why modern appliances are so lack luster in reliability. It explores 6 potential causes: Cost, Compliance, Corporations, Computers, Complexity and Conspiracy. And also proposes a solution of customers buying appliances based on reliability along with people demanding changes within the laws which govern energy efficiency.

Personally I agree with all the points and solutions offered in this video. My honest opinion is that the only way things will get better is through a grass roots movement where people learn, act and shop for simple, dependable, well built appliances. He mentions that doing such could actually bring back old proven designs.

I am all for this. However we must first get the word out and do it in such a way as to bring about a growing movement.




What do others think? Agree, disagree, thoughts?
 
I've seen him. Eh. So many others too and they don't know half of what members here know. I don't agree with telling shoppers to avoid certain features or brands which differ very little between each. Things are what they are. You need appliances to clean, chill, cook and freeze. Choices are vast. News of performance and quality travel from the consumer to others. I highly doubt that corporate deciders care what we think.
We complain about the price of food, fuel, utilities etc. We don't choose to walk, go hungry, or wash garments in a stream on rocks, but you can if you want to.
 
Thanks! I learned a lot from that video about today's appliance market. He also consulted off the record with a former appliance engineer from a major company.

He explains in a fair amount of depth how government regulations, changing consumer preferences, and market forces have contributed to our present situation of increasing complexity, reduced reliability and serviceability, unaffordable replacement parts, and planned obsolescence.

One thing I found particularly interesting is retail price trends. He shows a 1991 Lady Kenmore washer with a $555 list price. With inflation that would be over $1300 today. That seems to go a long way towards explaining why a machine like the Speed Queen TC5 costs as much as it does. I guess maybe I should keep fixing my 2003 Kenmore direct drive.
 
The thing I see adding an admission to these abundance of fallacies is all these Out of Warranty Service Plans and Protection Programs…

Ways to collect all your money if something breaks before it breaks and then when it does no one can fix it…

If you do give them enough money to buy you a new appliance will they actually do that?

Chances are if that’s the official agreement and these shady contractors make any kind of good on it, the new appliance you replace the old one with might be just as bad and you’ll all along be enrolled in this false or unsure protection for that!

Maybe it will prove to be a lemon even sooner but you’ll not have invested enough to be given that new one you’d been promised like before…
 
daveamkrayoguy said:
The thing I see adding an admission to these abundance of fallacies is all these Out of Warranty Service Plans and Protection Programs…

Ways to collect all your money if something breaks before it breaks and then when it does no one can fix it…

If you do give them enough money to buy you a new appliance will they actually do that?

Chances are if that’s the official agreement and these shady contractors make any kind of good on it, the new appliance you replace the old one with might be just as bad and you’ll all along be enrolled in this false or unsure protection for that!

Maybe it will prove to be a lemon even sooner but you’ll not have invested enough to be given that new one you’d been promised like before…
Click to expand...
I get all those annoying tv commercials that advertize joining their home appliance or automobile repair "NOW, before it breaks down!" crap.

It always references that one powerful thing that's used universally in all advertizing.
It's called Fear.
Classic subliminal messaging used to sell anything these days..... from Snake Oil, to Snot-rags, to Toilet Paper.
Along with a sneaky crafted message that if you DO join and pay a small fixed monthly fee, you won't have to "worry" about having to pay a lot to replace/repair your broken-down hunk of crap with another one.

It seems to me, that if you live within your means, use Common Sense, and put money aside for any potential issues, you won't have to rely on these goofy commercials.
Of course, Common Sense is in short supply these days.
A good part of that is the constant brainwashing of society to spend money on things, anything, so that your bank account droops down like a ghetto thug's pants.
Thanks to the "convenience" of Amazon, smartphones, and the internet sales sites.
 
Beyond the "it costs half as much because you want to pay half as much" point- which I feel covers a lot of the issues facing modern appliances- to those of you who work in appliance repair, are failure rates really that much higher now or is it also:

> Different types of failures (DC motors, control boards for example) that are more indivually expensive
> The repair vs replace equation being heavily rebalanced now by rising labor costs yet lower MSRPs? (Assuming people call for service).
> The internet now being a way to amplify frustration with failures? Versus in the past there was no such forum.

Another remark: I feel like so many of the issues I read online stem from bad control boards now, and I'm a little lost as to why. Often times these aren't necessarily complicated computers and theoretically it shouldn't be hard or expensive to design a board to last decades. Or is it not as widespread as it seems (apart from Whirlpool's VMW board issues, which seem pretty bad) relating to point #3?

I have some of 20-30 year old electronics and I seldom have had issues... even my 80s/90s Machintoshes, Nakamichi receiver, and cassette deck have their original electrolytic capacitors but no known issues to speak of. Even my 17 year old Wolf electric wall oven is fully digital, with a glass touch control panel, and works great. Apart from those caps and memory chips (depending on how often they're written to, their size, and if there is wear leveling), on a component level I don't quite get what could be failing so early on modern appliances (assuming they're protected from water).
 
Manufacturers have been trying to reduce production costs while increasing profits for decades. Newer machines still are a direct result of that. The issue I see is that people actually buy the crap that is made and replace it within a few years willingly in hopes that the replacement is better. Restrictions on water and energy use won’t help either when the machine does not perform as someone is used to. Lots of factors going on here.
 
What gets me are those plugs for Car Shield...

Surely, long ago everything automotive you could depend on for reliable transportation, not this modern day money grab that they are trying to get everyone to feed into...

Another admission of laws of perfection, still defied by the admission of the purposeful manufacture of faulty products!
 
There's a similar themed video by a washing machine repairman complaining about planned obsolescence and in particular, sealed washing machine tubs here:



What he doesn't cover is the lower cost of the machine as a result of welding the tub instead of holding it together using screws and a seal, and how much it actually now costs to get a professional to change the bearings vs the cost of buying a nice and shiny new washing machine that's also guaranteed to last for up to 5 year.
 
michaelz08 said:
Apart from those caps and memory chips (depending on how often they're written to, their size, and if there is wear leveling), on a component level I don't quite get what could be failing so early on modern appliances (assuming they're protected from water).
Click to expand...
That's an easy one to diagnose.
The Outsourcing of manufacture, the lack of strict Quality Control, and the choice of Venders for critical parts, along with cost-cutting.

I've seen countless products come through the shop over the years, and in comparing the ones made in earlier times, to the current crop of crap, it's clear to me, and other service techs what has taken place.
"Make it pretty, but make it cheaper".
Eproms, clock timing chips, installed in products are a suspect that us techs have discussed in length for years now.
We've often wondered why some IC's have their identification purposely scraped or ground off, covered up with paint, or have untraceable numbers so that we can't find a replacement or any info on.
Because that chip is set to a specific time (years of use) which eventually triggers a change in performance designed to cause an eventual failure to a product.
It's easy for a timing chip to change a resistor to another one with a different value.
Cutbacks on some heat-prone semiconductors like regulator chips by omitting a required heatsink are often missing, pushing the IC towards eventual failure.

This all started back around the 1980s, and slowly, increasingly evolved when China and a few other Asian countries were brought into the picture.
At the same time, society's thinking regarding the "throw-away mentality" was born from advertizing to boost revenue for corporations - that nasty "greed" factor. - "Upgrade!.... the new products are better!"

No one can tell me differently about this, because I've seen it many times in the recent decades on my service bench.
 
daveamkrayoguy said:
What gets me are those plugs for Car Shield...

Surely, long ago everything automotive you could depend on for reliable transportation, not this modern day money grab that they are trying to get everyone to feed into...

Another admission of laws of perfection, still defied by the admission of the purposeful manufacture of faulty products!
Click to expand...
Dave, I've gotten to the point of sitting on my sofa with the remote control in my hand, finger ready to hit the "mute" button whenever a commercial comes on.
And those damned "Just $19 a month, Only 63 cents a day" tearjerker commercials are just as annoying.
 
And... to add to my previous rant about commercials....
Those multiple types of annoying "Won't you donate?, just $19 a month?" commercials are some big SCAM just to take your money.
Do you really KNOW where your $19 donation really goes?
I bet you'd never find the true answer to that.
And I bet you'll never get that "Adorable Blanket" or Tee shirt either.

I did some digging about it...
For all I know or care, it likely winds up in some secret organisation's bank account that doesn't have society's best interests in mind.
<snip: politcal reference deleted by DADoES/Moderator</snip>
 

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