ARIEL COLD WASH POWDER

[mrboilwash]

I think 40°C is fine for clothes like shirts and jeans and it is really impressive what modern detergents accomplish even in almost cold water at 30°C. At least VIRTUALLY every stain usually comes out.
But I am also one of those who would never touch a sheet or towel washed below 60°C. I do my towels at 95°C though they would come out perfectly clean at 30°C.
The reason why I still do this is because I can SMELL the difference.
IMHO nothing can beat a high temperature wash when it comes to odor removal. (Maybe LCB can, but might cause even more damage to fabrics and to the enviroment as well.)
Even P&G recommends hot washes for their coldwater Ariel whenever sanitizing is needed. (www.arielkaltaktiv.de waschirrtümer)
To me the only drawback of boilwashes is a faster limescale buildup on fabrics. Seriously, I wish we still had good old phosphat based detergents availible, like the Brits have.
And about the energy issue, well, the average dryer even doubles the amount of energy used for a coldfill boilwash in a FL. So what ?

 

[lavamat_jon]

I agree with Mrboilwash; I've also noticed that sheets/towels seem to smell fresher, and keep fresher even if they've been used 3 or 4 times if they have been washed at higher temperatures. Cleaning performance wise I agree that you can get superb results at 40*C, but detergent alone definitely doesn't disinfect laundry on it's own; only if used along with a high water temperature IMO.

Somebody mentioned about running towels through the dryer which sanitised them - seeming as dryers are energy hogs then any energy savings made in the washer by using a lower water temp are lost by using a tumble dryer on high heat - it is more efficient to heat the washwater to 60*C and dry stuff in the dryer on a low heat, or eliminate the dryer and just use the clothes line (the latter being my preferred method). Besides, I also read somewhere (can't remember where now) that wet heat is supposedly more effective at getting rid of nasties than high heat - don't ask to reasons why!

My nana uses a biological detergent, and she never goes above 40*C, leaves the door open between each wash, yet her machine still smells and her towels still smell... well a bit manky, plus mould is already beginning to form in the seal. Meanwhile I use temperatures of 60*C and above regularly, usually with the same brand of detergent (Persil or Ariel), and my washer always smells fresh even if I haven't used it for 3 or 4 days, and I've not had mould form in the seal yet.

Of course, YMMV.

Jon

 

[lavamat_jon]

Phosphate free detergents

BTW, mrboilwash, the UK detergents are phosphate free too (besides from Persil tablets). Our biological and colour Ariel versions are identical to the European versions I believe, and our Persil range is identical to Skip or Omo; all without phosphates.

Jon

 

[lederstiefel1]

I can't find any difference in smelling when washed with different temperatures! Neither can my mate and his nose is absolutely sensible (sometimes really a burden!).
FL do not dry out very quick nor very well and mould can come up when only used in low temperature cycles. But we use our TL and never found any mildew or mould nor any bad smell in it. The twin-tubs we use are always wiped dry finally after every wash and also stand for quite a while open to dry out completely!
The amount we use in our machines are the following (we have soft water and use only cold to warm water!):
2/3 - 3/4 scoop for the start with the twinnies, adding another 1/3 or 1/4 during the following loads.
1/2 - 2 scoops in the american SpeedQueen, depending on load-size and dirt-level.
Liquid detergent we use in aquivalent amounts.

I also want to add something to the opinion that only hot washes give really clean clothes! If that would be true, than 90% of our clothes would never be really clean - pooohh!!!!
Is that so? NO!! And also you cannot wash silks or wollens hot! Even synthetics cannot withstand hot-hot temperatures without getting ruined! And what are you afraid of? Bacterias? Which bacterias? YOUR OWN BACTERIAS that keep you healthy and alive?? Or do you share one towel with your whole family?? Can't believe that!? Do you not take a shower a day? Don't you use any deodorant? How can you smell then?

Ralf

 

[hoovermatic]

Paranoid

There is way too much paranoia about bacteria in laundry. I can understand the need for sanitising to a high degree if one is laundering for a hospital but get real!! I have lived on this planet for 41 years and have never boiled bath towels or for that matter, had fresh ones every day. I use my towel and allow it to dry naturally and use it the next day. I do this for about 5 days and then I have a fresh one. I have never had a skin complaint in my life and come to that, neither have my parents and they have done the same thing more or less for 60 years. It is a waste of electricity, water, detergent and money and not least an environmental burden to be doing all this unnecessary high temp overkill laundry.

Also, I have never come across all of this brown gunk and mould that so many people seem to suffer from in their machines. I ALWAYS leave the lid of my machine ajar and when I had a front loader, I ALWAYS left the doot ajar, at all times and have NEVER EVER had a problem. I am baffled as to what some of you are doing that you have this problem!!

 

[lavamat_jon]

I disagree with you there hoovermatic; IMO it's just good hygiene practice. Plus I wash for 2 people with sensitive skin (both with dustmite allergies), and another person who is asthmatic and 60*C washes minimum are necessary on bedlinen & towels as it kills the dustmites which can cause allergies. Towels are changed every 3 or 4 days otherwise they start smelling musty; and I 've noticed if you wash items such as towels at low temperatures like my nana does then they have a rather musty smell to them which all disappears if you use a high temperature. So high temperatures are nothing to do with paranoia at all. And certainly isn't a waste of electricity; not a waste of water as the last time I checked a 60*C cottons cycle uses exactly the same amount of water as a 40*C cottons cycle, and the detergent dosage is the same. As environmentally friendly as I am I'm not going to sacrifice good laundry practice for the sake of the environment, and I do use the low level rinses (which I find work quite well in the Miele) as well as short wash cycles which use less electric so if anything I'm probably saving the environment somewhat. If there wasn't a purpose for 60*C washes and there was no additional benefit of washing linens at 60 rather than 40, then I'd definitely be using 40*C all the time as I am environmentally concious.

I have come across quite a few machines with mould etc in them. Not sure if it's our water or what; but those relatives I know of that don't go above 40*C always seem to have mould on the seal whereas others who use the 60*C wash quite a bit don't seem to have any problems at all. So from that simple observation it's good enough for me to say that there is some sort of link between all low temperature washing; and mould problems.

Of course, as with anything, your mileage may vary . Just posting my personal experiences.

Jon

 

[aquarius1984]

when ariel brought out antibac in the uk persil famously claimed their powder could hygenically clean at 40 anyway. However i still use the 95 wash on whites and 60 on bedding despite this. What if the powder was faulty somehow and you were depending on a hygienic clean? A few weeks ago i got myself rather drunk on 8 pints of cider at a leaving do. Now not being a drinker i was ok for the situation. However when i woke up in the morning well lets just say i was ill in bed whilst fast asleep and it was not a pretty sight. Even with persil claiming 40 cleans hygienically how can you take the risk with a situation like that? I now drink hardly anything now by the way. What an experience not to be repeated. nick

 

[aquarius1984]

and if anybody says the machine might not heat up properly in response to my thoughts on a faulty powder i tend to every few washes check that the door glass is hot when on a boil wash. Perhaps every 10 washes. It is the only was to assure hygienic clothes. As for wool etc its a chance you have to take but i may be contradicting myself somewhat on that subject. Nick

 

[hoovermatic]

Jon - the only thing we agree on is that we disagree with each other on this issue. Dust mites yes, everything else a big fat NO.

 

[lavamat_jon]

everything else a big fat NO

Sorry for posting my observations which I have noticed over the years; but they are all true otherwise I wouldn't say so.

 

[aquarius1984]

Ralf

we are not saying our t shirts jeans etc are better being boiled to get really clean we are talking about those cloths we wipe around the toilet with. The dish cloth with a days worth of food and bacteria stuck in it. The towels we dry our bodies with that another family member will use after being washed with our dead skin residue. Bacteria multiply by 2 every 20 mins. So while your waiting 3 days for a full wash load to be economical they can be dangerous and they do stink. 25 to 30 mins in your average 40.c wash will clear stains maybe but to be fully effective detergent needs TIME, TEMPERATURE, CONTACT, CONCENTRATION AND AGITATION. . Hygiene is not about what will happen its also about what could happen too! We read about bacteria getting imune to chemicals but they will never survive heat! HOOVERMATIC you may have been lucky in that you never get any problems and i hope the future you dont but when all said and done we all have comfort zones but if boil washes were not needed for hygiene purposes manufacturers would not include them. There would be ruling on energy usage i guess but there is not. My old hotpoint wf000 drawer was constantly covered in black mold yet the door seal was not. Which has contact with powder? The drawer so why was it mouldy if powder can rid bacteria effectively? Which had the most contact with 95.c water? The door seal. Just some thoughts

 

[hoovermatic]

Jon, I am not saying that your observations are inaccurate I am simply disagreeing with most of your opinions based on those observations.

 

[lavamat_jon]

But they aren't my opinions... they're facts based on observations. It isn't my opinion, for example, that towels and whatever smell musty after a colder wash - they just do whether I like it or not so that's fact, which you can't disagree with. Maybe you haven't had any of these problems, then good for you but there's no need to dismiss what I and other peeps on here say about higher temperatures and post rude replies and call us all paranoid.

 

[hoovermatic]

My apologies, I didn't realise that I was not allowed to disagree with opinions based on fact/observations or anything else. I thought this was an open forum - I was obviously mistaken.

 

[sudsman]

C W Tide & Tide W B Powders

Being a hospital laundry I have a chance to evaluate many detergents . I have a Director of Nursing and one of the hospitals that is always on me about trying anything new. although we use most commerical products we do use a large amount of home type products in the smaller machines. One thing I have found is that TWB & CW Tide are very close to same just different fragrance.. and Prices, I have a P & G rep that stops by ever 2 or 3 weeks and he assures me they are a different product. Yea, just different fragrance. We have found here that water temperature does not seem to play a large part in killing germs as we once thought. We have had the lab do culture test on cold wash items and hot wash items and found almost no difference in the readings . I just have a very hard time getting it in my head cold water washing is o.k. I still want to wash at 160 . But with all the pressure on energy that is fast becoming a memory.

 

[foraloysius]

Hoovermatic

It is kind of rude to say that somebody else's experience is a big fat no as you said. If Jonathan has noticed that his towels get a musty smell when they are washed at lower temperatures, then who are you to say that that observation is not true? Have you smelled Jonathan's towels? As Jonathan said that your experience might be different, but don't denie him his own experience.

 

[2-drumsallergy]

Forcing ones opinions on others.

Foraloysius I must speak in Hoovermatics defense. I recall a recent thread number 7247 (ARISTON Aqualtis it's wonderful) in which Jonathan (lavamat_jon) is quick to condemn Filekar1’s new washing machine. I found his attitude arrogant and abusive. Filekar1 a new member decided to share his or hers new washing machine with the forum only to be greeted with condemnation.

I am new here myself and don’t wish to cause anyone offence but I had to speak on this occasion.

David

http://www.automaticwasher.org/TD/ARCHIVE/MODERN/2006/7247x19.htm#bott

 

[foraloysius]

David,

Welcome to the club. No offence! In regard to the other thread, Jonathan apologized for his strong approach later (message #143379). It would suit Hoovermatic to do the same.

Louis

 

[lavamat_jon]

David, as I have already said in that thread about the Aqualtis I am very sorry as I was in a very bad mood that day. I did later apologise sincerely to filekar and I still feel bad for making him unwelcome. I can't apologise enough and it is unfair of you to make comments like that. You can think what you like of me; but I'm only here to make friends not enemies. I do have strong opinions but I would never force them upon anybody; and I don't believe I'm abusive nor arrogant so I am quite sad to see you think that of me. And if you really do have a problem it would be nice for you to email me privately rather than air it in public here.

After all we are one big community with a common interest; and whatever the opinion we're all here to listen to and share each others thoughts, opinions, and excitement, but at the same time we have the rights to defend our opinion. This thread in particular is nothing but a good, strong, healthy debate. And at the end of the day; everything we do is right to us and while it is healthy to debate & perhaps argue at the end of the day everybody can go and do what they want; and wash in either a toploader or frontloader; in a Servis or Miele; in cold or hot water; and with whatever detergent they want, and do so because they want to no matter what anybody else's opinion is. That's what makes us all different and interesting!

As I said, I'm here to make friends with similar interests; not enemies.

Take care,

Jon

 

[hoovermatic]

Jonathan apologized for his strong approach later . It would

Do not assume to know what would suit me.