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I'd almost 100% guarantee the main reason that they're not launching that with fanfare about 'PureZyme' in this segment of the European market is the UK history of paranoia about enzymes.

 

There's a huge focus on non-bio which has been presented as 'more natural' even though the complete opposite is the case - and it's dependent on chemical detergents, without any enzymes and there's an association with some notion about enzymes being somehow risky.

 

I would say Ariel will be launched with 'new fresh clean technology' or something rather than mentioning anything about the ingredients.
 
Was never impressed with (then) Lever Bros. Wisk liquid detergent, and future offerings didn't move needle much. Tons of suds and cleaning ability was "meh"; Tide liquid came along by time Wisk was reformulated and was streets ahead.

That mania about enzymes wholly almost unique to Great Britain, Ireland and so forth is a puzzle. Numerous studies have long disputed enzymes in laundry products having any major affect on skin or health.

Without enzymes only thing left for removing stains and some soils is high temperatures and increased use of powerful chemicals. That is how commercial laundries do washing, and you often can see what toll that takes on things after repeated trips through that process.
 
I`ve used those new Ariel Pods with phosphodieterase on quite a few loads so far and can tell I`m not that impressed for what they are.

The ads are touting their ability to remove those pesky "invisible sticky stains" which made me curious to give them a try because I have a very oily skin.
I know what it means when the chest area of shirts gets an awful rancid smelling build up of body oils within less than 3-4 subsequent washings if I use an inferior detergent or don`t use tons of it.
They perform much better than regular Ariel Pods which I consider absolutely useless but I still have to use two pods in hard water to get acceptable results.
Any Dalli made store brand liquid does a much better job in my opinion at a fraction of the costs even without the new "miracle enzyme"

mrboilwash-2020112414512403574_1.jpg
 
The history of that is very specifically British and was driven by tabloid stories in England in the 1970s. It never had any traction in Ireland as we don't have the same print media, even though we might share some of the product supply chains. 

 

You can pretty much blame Lever Bros and the tabloids for it.

 

P&G developed Ariel at their European Technology Centre at Strombeek-Bever in Belgium in the 1960s. It was one of the very first enzymatic detergents. Henkel may have had a competitor product, but Lever Bros at the time really didn't and was blindsided by it in its home market in the UK. Seems enzymatic detergents were introduced by Otto Röhm in 1914 (the inventor of plexiglass- had businesses in Germany & the USA.

 

The initial Ariel products launched across Europe in several markets in 1967, mostly in low foaming formats as front loaders / horizontal drum top loader machines were already fairly dominant.

 

The UK market was a bit different, with very dominant top loaders, notably twin-tubs but also some top loading agitator automatics. As a result, Ariel was launched there as a high foaming formula suitable for those machines, but with enzymes, while Bold Automatic was their band for front loaders, which were still niche.  Ariel launched there in 1969 as "the biological miracle' and it really took the market by storm and was taking Persil, Omo and other brand's market share as it was a very good product.

 

Lever Bros didn't really have a competing product. Persil was aimed very much at twin tubs, and was quite traditionally formulated and also other brands like Omo (weirdly dropped in the UK and Ireland since the 1980s even though it predates Persil and is an actual British brand) and Rinso which was also dropped in the 1970s, and was once a huge brand.

 

Persil was very quickly reformulated to include enzymes, and somehow was alleged to cause allergies and may well have done at the time. The flames were fanned by a flurry of paranoid articles in the tabloids about the horrors of New Persil.

 

Meanwhile, Ariel seemed to be ticking away quite nicely mopping up Lever's market share.

 

Lever seemingly lagged in terms of enzyme R&D or didn't yet have access to products from Novo Nordisk (now Novozymes) that P&G had,

 

To prevent market loss, they went into PR over drive and launched <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Persil Non-Bio</span>, which was in reality just an old fashioned formula, without enzymes - classic Lever Persil from the pre-enzyme days.

 

The result of the PR drive and the articles at the time was to instil an unjustified fear of enzymes and of the term 'bio' or 'biological' and it was driven by tabloid conspiracy theories, a bit like the modern nonsense about 5G.

 

Persil found its niche again as a low tech non-bio powder and housewives swore by it. They then pushed it increasingly into a sensitive skin market niche and the more they did that the more damage was done to the term 'bio' or 'enzymes'. When they did launch with enzymes again, they were quite cautious not to mention them and called it New System Persil and so on.

 

So, that's basically the history of how non-bio is such a fixation in the UK - a marketing mess-up and a tabloid newspaper scare story that's taken 50 years to get over!

 

You'll still find a lot of companies are reluctant to write Enzymes or Biological on their packaging and that skin sensitive products <span style="text-decoration: underline;">must</span> be non-bio!

 

From an ecological point of view, it's not great as it's encouraging the use of very chemical heavy products when enzymes could be doing a lot of the heavy lifting these days.

 

The most ironic thing about this enzyme being used in detergents is it seems to be a British invention, yet it will probably be hardest to market in Britain itself. 

[this post was last edited: 11/24/2020-18:25]
 
Yep good old British rag -

Bio/biological or enzymes is a dirty word in Britain and if you have kids you're practically negligent if you don't use non bio.

Most know here that Persil is Britain's best selling detergent, but what many may not know is that nearly (in fact it may be just over - I can't find the figures now) two thirds of Persil sales are non bio, Persil non bio outsells bio by double.

If you were to break down Persil in to Bio and Non bio (as opposed to counting it all as one brand) it is actually not Britain's best selling detergent, it's Ariel. Ariel sells almost all what Persil does and of course it's only available in biological now since they did away with Ariel non bio in approx 2006.

So sales of Ariel bio are streets ahead of Persil bio, but that's due to they hysteria of people/parents and non bio (and particular Persil non bio which practically has a cult following). Plus the only other choice for branded non bio detergent is Fairy, so Persil has a sort of stronghold and not much competition, as in not many other options or brands - Fairy is also one of the strongest brands in the U.K.
 
I wonder actually what’s going to happen here in Ireland after Brexit?

Will Unilever just switch to French lines? We had differences in Persil tablets in the early 2000s due to different laws on phosphates. Essentially Irish boxes of Persil tablets contained French Skip tablets, with just the common logo on the foil, rather than British Persil, which at the time still contained phosphates.

We also get the full range of Sun dishwasher tablets, gels and rinse aids, which are all made in France, by Unilever itself, rather than the Persil branded tablets you seem to get in the U.K., which are afaik subcontracted to McBride.

For decades Quix used to be quite dominant in hand dishwashing here, yet they abandoned it and Persil dishwashing liquid seemed to fail as a replacement due to confusion as it’s seen as a laundry brand. The result is there’s no longer any Unilever hand dishwashing liquid sold here.

https://ifiplayer.ie/quix-washing-up/

It still seems to exist in commercial scale packs here for catering, but just odd they left the consumer market basically entirely to P&G and own brands. Perhaps there’s no profits in hand dishwashing liquids anymore.
 
I remember Lever Bros. had 'SquEzy' dish washing-up liquid: black and white plastic bottle, yellow cap. It was a clear yellowish liquid. It seemed to disappear from the marketplace.

I agree that Lever's 'Wisk' was found wanting - I never found it to be much cop either. Neither were the sister variants Persil, Radion and Surf. I remember residue around the cap thread would dry to a chalky texture.

And I never understood the removal of 'Sun' dishwasher detergent from the UK market. For a time, it was one of the better detergents.
 
To be fair to present-day Unilever laundry products, they're pretty good.

 

Persil liquid and pods are booth as good as Ariel in my experience of them and I prefer the scent of Persil Bio powder to Ariel.

 

The non-bio thing was an unfortunate outcome of a tabloid panic fest though. It's just a pity it's taken so long to undo.

 

The biggest issue is that Persil was historically sold as this kind of warm, fuzzy, nostalgic brand all about being a 'good mother' and wholesome family values. Ariel was sold on sort of modern geeky, science and had a far more 'euro' vibe to it, despite Persil not being a British brand by heritage and I think that was very much backed by what P&G did with the big R&D centre in Belgium, driving very innovative research that has fed into the whole portfolio globally, including US Tide of late.

 

Historically, and you can see it in the ads above, Persil was marketed to a conservative audience while Ariel was very much the new kid on the block. That changed in the 1980s somewhat, but only somewhat.

 

Even today, Persil's adverts are a lot more conservative than Ariel, they've just shifted emphasis from wholesomeness to somewhat more ecological of late with a touch of greenwashing in my view.

 

Unilever was also quite careful not to encroach on the conservative Persil brand, which I think is why you saw them pushing out Wisk as a test marketed tech-focused sub-brand in the UK/Ireland market only to scrap it and Radion was a bit similar.

 

The brand "Ariel" just came from "Aire" (air in Italian) and they stuck an L on the end to make it work in other EU languages that don't like words that end in vowels. It's a completely pan-European branding concept, and the name was designed to work in as many languages as possible and the logo is all about science, a stylised atom. I suspect the multi-compartment pod, be it Tide or Ariel, was intended for the Ariel brand originally, the shape of the pods and often the blue/green/white colour scheme, even in the US in a lot of ways, looks to be based on Ariel's logo.

 

I'm wondering did it come out of the Belgian R&D centre?

[this post was last edited: 11/25/2020-13:00]
 
Persil

Washing up liquid is back on the U.K. market, has been for a couple of years - see it more and more but of course it's not made by Unilever and from what I can remember (it was gone a long time) doesn't seem as high quality as the original - it retails for about 50p for 500ml.

Think I have tried Persil dishwasher tablets and I didn't like at all if I remember correctly. One brand I really did like but it seemed to disappear as quick as it came was Glist.

Seems to be a sharp uptake in famous brands being subcontracted out to other manufactures, last year or so Ariel stain remover range come back (along with a laundry sanitiser rinse along the same lines as Dettol) but is made by Star brands, not P&G, the exact same is also the case with Fairy.

Persil has just released a sanitiser rinse too, but not sure if it is made by Unilever (suspect not), but one "good" thing depending on which way you look at it (if you like products that is) that the dreaded Covid has brought is an explosion of new cleaning products/brands - especially ones based around antibacterial and sanitising properties. Even though we've always had a ton of these products we now have 10 ton more.

On the pod thing, yes the colour and design of them are definitely Ariel - can't understand why Tide changed the colour scheme of theirs to match Ariel (would bet it was due to manufacturing costs), but Tide pods are now the totally wrong colour and don't match the colour scheme of the brand at all, whereas they did before. Whereas they are the perfect colour for Ariel.

Ever
 
@mralex

I never tried stain remover with the non bio it never occurred to me to be honest.

I bought a bucket of Kirkland signature super concentrated washing powder..... Oh dear another one to chalk up to no use. The bucket is more use than the contents.....lol

I will go back to Almat/Formil as they do clean I just have to watch how much I put in.

Will try Daz Pro and see how that performs.

Austin
 
Ha

I've bought that Kirkland powder once only. It seemed to wash ok, but found it very sudsy (I would stake a bet it's not meant for "HE" - a large proportion of the US will still be on top loaders).

It's a very industrial smell (not a at all what the US would accept for a laundry detergent - even though typically US folk don't call for as highly scented detergents vs other countries).

Bet it would be good for the other uses it states on the tub, patio washing, oil spills, wall and floor cleaner.

It's really strange because the liquid and pods from Kirkland are great. Still, the powder must sell, or they wouldn't keep selling it - shipping that stuff over from the US won't be cheap (Costco own label products tend to be 99% the same in USA and U.K. warehouses, save products that have to be tweaked/not sold to allow for regulatory rules).
 
Passed by Target on way home yesterday and wandered in to see what there was.

Going through detergent section no, Tide HC does not have this new enzyme or whatever. Rather it depends apparently upon a good dose of solvents and emulsifiers to get at embedded dirt, something by the way commercial/industrial laundries have relied upon for ages.

Also seem to have figured out what's up with that + "touch of Downy" thing. Looking at Tide free and gentle liquids both regular and "+ Downy" versions the latter has enzyme cellulase while former does not. By munching off bobbles from cotton fabrics things will seem smoother (among other things). There may be some other bits added as well that make up difference, but didn't have that kind of time to bother standing there comparing.

Tide once included cellulase in all their detergents (packets had that Cotton trademark somewhere), but it seems P&G now reserve that enzyme for only certain versions of Tide and maybe their other laundry detergents as well.

For what it is worth Tide HC both in pods and liquid seemed to be selling well at that Target as shelf was partially empty of both.

Now remember why went into Target; they supposedly have lock down on Tide Ultra both regular and free/clear, but so far have never been able to lay hands on either as none of Target stores in our area seem to carry. Will have to look at K-Mart at Astor Place next time am down that way....
 
Cellulase

Seems to come and go all the time from detergents over here.

Can't remember exactly when, but there was a shift from manufacturers hiding that they made a range of brands under their umbrella - so when Bold moved to the "with Lenor" to advertise the 2in1 element (so Bold and Lenor "teaming up") they of course applied it to Powder, Liquid/Gel and the Pods.

The Powder and liquids were called Bold with a "touch Lenor *Freshness*" whereas the Pods were called Bold with a "touch of Lenor *Fibre care*". The pods were the only one that contained cellulase, anyways that didn't last long at all and the pods were brought in to line with the rest and reworded.

Had heard that cellulase is the most expensive enzyme so that may answer it.

Couldn't tell you what ones have it in now as haven't looked up properly for a while, I think Persil capsules have it in as there's something on the front of pack about "Bobbles" , but to be honest I'm more excited that they've FINALLY brought back their colour care powder WITHOUT optical brigtheners.

Ariel like Tide used to contain it as par for the course, with the same mentioned Cotton Traders logo and a push in their adverts, it was called Ariel Essential with "Wearcare"

 
Are there any regulatory requirements connected to the phrase "hygienic clean" at all?
Suppose this could even translate into "washing with Tide/Ariel gives more hygienically clean cloths than washing with plain water" and still meet all marketing requirements on both sides of the pond.
Looks like they`re just jumping on the Convid scare bandwagon to fill their pockets.
 
"Are there any regulatory requirements connected to the phrase "hygienic clean" at all?"

No, don't believe so; it's same as with "Oxi", product makers are free to say what they like because the word or phrase isn't regulated.

What controls there are apply to claims about disinfection; if something is claimed to kill "X" percentage of "Y" germs or whatever maker has to prove it or stop.

Years ago P&G came out with Tide powder with "Hydrogen Peroxide" making all sorts of claims about how it killed 99.99% of whatever germs on wash (E Coli and so forth). EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) a US government agency in charge of regulating among other things pesticides, biocides, rodentcides...asked for required proof, P&G stopped making said claims....

In one form or another laundry soap or detergent makers have long made claims about how "hygienically" clean wash was with this or that product. Words may change in advert copy, but gist of things remained same. Persil and others going on about "white", "whiteness", and "whiter than white", along with "deep down clean....".
 
It is incredible how

Tide "heavy-duty" and "hygienic clean" claim to either remove impossible stains or remove invisible dirt. Did they add different chemicals or are they using the same chemicals and just use marketing terms? I'd like to know more about these. I am currently using tide hygienic clean pods. and they seem to work.
 
Re: P&G's mania for liquids, pods

"they seem hell bent on getting people converted to liquids, if not better pods."

I came across this, from Henkel:

"We also need significantly less energy to manufacture Persil liquid detergents than we do to manufacture powders. The elaborate drying process for ingredients is not necessary with the gel."

Or in other words: the profit margins aren't great enough on the powders, because we have to spend extra dosh to dry the product.

This will probably affect all the powder manufacturers.
 

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