Artificial Water Softner Units

[liberatordeluxe]

Does anyone know how you disconnect the water softner that goes to the washing machine but keeps the supply for the immersion heater? I have two blue hoses that are connected to the unit and one goes onto the mains water and the other goes onto the washer and dishwasher. As i have problems with rinsing i am thinking of closing off the softned water supply. Has anyone else experienced trouble with artificial water softner units? I can't be the only one.

 

[launderess]

You're Not Alone

Many homes have some sort of by pass for the water softening system so it does not provide water to certain taps in the home. Drinking water comes to mind.

Rinsing with soft water for any sort of washing can be a problem. On this side of the pond there are detergents sold just for use with softened water.

 

[arbilab]

Soft water is good. Even with built detergents, calcium carbonate gloms with sebum (skin oil/wax) to form a glop that deposits in the outer tub where there is no abrasion to keep it stirred up.

Euro detergents are highly built, the water there tends to be even harder than here (US). If the builders don't have any calcium carbonate to keep them busy, they hang around and make it look like you have a rinse problem. You really don't, because the same amount of dilution takes place whether you appear to have suds left over or not.

I would call your brand's customer service line and ask if they have a formula more appropriate for soft water. Surely you're not the only one with a water softener. And all they have to do is tone the builders down in relation to the surfactants.

Alternately you could use much less detergent and add a booster like STPP for the same cleaning result without the leftover builders.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

@ Launderess sadly the uk mainstream detergents are all marketed for hard water only but there is a water softner company that makes detergent just for soft water which i have no found out. Shame you just can't walk into any supermarket or shop and buy off the shelf detergent. The UK has no phosphates in detergents and these were banned many years ago at least 15 years ago. Not sure where i would buy sttp from in the UK.

 

[rayjay]

Detergents for Soft Water

Hi Laundress.

I have a water softner and just use less HE detergent.

Can you please tell me what detergents are available here for soft water?

I live in NJ close to NYC.

Thank You

Ray

 

[launderess]

@rayjay

IIRC, Allsoft, Culligan amoung other mechanical water softner makers offer laundry detergents. As for a local dealer cannot give you an answer on that one, but have seen such products on fleaPay.

L.

 

[launderess]

Persons Having Problems With Laundry Rinsing And Water Softe

Maybe try doing one or more hot or warm rinses.

Many water heating systems are set up to bypass the hot water system, thus that water is untreated. The extra hardness may help pull out the detergent residue.

Just a thought.

L.

 

[rayjay]

Rinsing in Soft water

Laundress.

I thought the laundry would rinse better in soft water?

Your thoughts...

Thanks

Ray

 

[launderess]

If you've ever bathed using soap and too soft water the answer is more clear.

No matter how hard one tries there is still that "slimy" feeling of not being free of soap residue. Sometimes the same can occur with laundry when using a mechanical water softening system.

Over on THS/Appliance forum there are periodic postings of persons at their wits end with a similar problem. After reducing dosage and or switching detergents they still cannot get their laundry to rinse cleanly.

 

[beekeyknee]

Dear Laundress,

I have always admired your knowledge of laundering techniques and products, but this time I have to respectfully disagree with you. This topic has been discussed on this site many times. I think from the discussions presented it is fairly clear that the problem with soft water is not the water, but the way it is used. There is more than one thread on this topic and I hope someday it is put to rest. I think if people will search the site and the internet in general they will discover the skinny on soft water.

The link below is one I started, but there are others through the site. I'm tired of looking through the site today or I may have posted other links.

One other thing that leads me to this conclusion is that people that wash in hard water and don't see suds in their rinse water will wear bathing suits in a hot tub and in short order the soap bubbles will start to appear in the hot tub and the water will become murky. If people use the hot tub in the buff, the water stays clear and bubble free.

True, clothes washed in hard water will show much much less, if any suds, in the rinse cycle, but once used in the hot tub, the water becomes sudsy and contaminated with detergent residue from the clothes. To top it off, we use hard water in the hot tub and this should produce less suds, but it does not.

Who knows, it's possible that some people may retain soap on their skin and hair and may not realize it's there, especially when they rinse in hard water and the minerals in the water fool them into believing they are completely rinsed, when in fact they are not. The soap could be coming off their skin and getting in the hot tub water.

I believe this proves that soft water does rinse well when the proper amount of detergent is used and that hard water gives the illusion of rinsing well.

Thank you,

Brian (a.k.a. beekeyknee)

Water Softeners

Why don't more people use water softeners? I have a light to moderately used Maytag 806 washer from 1979 that I restored last summer. It had a hard water ring on the under side of the lid from splashes. The collector tub lid had some hard water rings under the gasket and deposits on the top...

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[rayjay]

Soft Water and Rinsing

Thanks Brian for the clarification. I do recall all the posts on soft water and that it is great for rinsing. This is why I questioned again. I have a water softner for 20 years now and love it. I would not be without it. I have a front loader washer and use HE detergent, but before that I had a top loader and used reguular detergent, and the clothes rinsed well. WIth soft water we do not have soap film in the shower, tub, etc. Your skin feels so nice after a bath or shower.

Thanks again Brian!

Ray

 

[beekeyknee]

Ray,

Your front loader most likely uses less water, so there's less dilution of the soap. But you also get a faster spin, so that helps. Laundress is right. A warm water rinse sometimes helps. I've found that powders sometimes suds less than liquids. I tend to steer away from liquids except during cold water washes, which I don't do very many of. If you want to use a powder in a cold wash you should dissolve it in a couple of quarts of hot water and add it right before the machine starts or it may not dissolve.

If there's a way to flush your hot water line closest to the machine you'll get the hottest water possible in the machine when it starts. If it doesn't have an internal heater and there's cold water in the line, you may be getting very little if any hot or warm water in the machine. That combined with the small amount of water the machines use can complicate the problem. The small amount of water that inters the machine is used to heat up the machines parts and by that time the water in the drum is lukewarm or cold.

That is one of the many problems that plague these machines. If there's no heater in the machine or the water heater is far away from the machine you will most always have cold water washing your clothes, even if you set the machine on warm. I tell the guy upstairs to always use the hot water setting for everything unless he wants a cold water wash. If he wants a cold water wash I tell him to use warm. Even cold water washes need to be tepid to be affective. If the cold water lines run directly over the furnace, the water in the line will be warmer in the winter and if it's a short run from the outside to the machine it will be warm for a bit and will suddenly turn cold. There are so many variables with water temperature and washing machines, especially front loaders.

In my opinion all front loaders should have a heater in them to keep the water at the correct temp., but the manufactures are always after these energy stars and they care not if your clothes are clean or if the inside of the machine becomes filthy.

If you really want to control the temperature in the machine you can always add hot water to it manually through the soap dispenser when the machine first starts to fill and when it detects the proper water amount it will quit filling and wash. If you're lucky, your machine won't have an overfill detector and you can add water until the water/soap combination reaches about half way up the window. Then you can get a pretty decent wash out of these machines. Unfortunately, most front load machines these days have over fill detection and will pump out, depriving you the ability to add water. If you're lucky enough to have a Speed Queen, they will use more water and the water level can be adjusted. I don't know how it's done, but others on here do and have made posts about it.

That's pretty much it for the water situation in your front loader. I realize you didn't ask for all this information, but if you didn't know it already, I thought it would be useful.

Brian

 

[bosch2460]

I am in agreement with Laundress. I do happen to have a water softener and a Euro Miele as my daily driver. I can tell you from personal experience that soft water makes it harder for detergent to rinse out of clothes. If I am not careful with dosing, I will have to run extra rinses. I always check my last rinse for excessive suds. I have grown accustomed to seeing a few in the final rinse and think nothing of it. It is just the nature of softened water. Liquids DO make more suds than powders, in my experience. I can over ride my softener for hard water rinses. I do have very hard water here, and I will confirm that hard water rinsing is much more effective at knocking down suds and producing a perfectly clear final rinse. If I have an over sudsed load, I will sometimes feed it only hard water for all the rinses, to save time and water. Detergent is removed by dilution, we all know this. However, hard water minerals tend to "eat up" remaining detergents with each rinse. Soft water does not have those minerals, etc, to decrease sudsing and rinse as quickly when compared to hard water. This would be the same reason why you have to use increasingly more detergent for increasingly hard water to get proper cleaning.

 

[rayjay]

Thanks Brian for all the information. I really appreciate it.
I have an LG front loader about 8 years old. I like to use Persil or Tide with Bleach HE. Both powders. It seems everything rinses fine. I do you liquid for darks and cold water washes. And as Laundress stated the warm rinse does help. Thank You Laundress for the tip. I do use a bit of fabric softener. This also helps.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think I did see here in the past the soft water was great for rinsing?? Maybe I misunderstood.

Let me know.

All comments are much appreciated.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

Water Softners

Regarding water softners is soft water better for rinsing or is hard water? How do you turn the softner off so you get hard water for rinsing? If anyone knows would you tell me please?

Regarding dosing for those who have artifical water softners do you follow the detergent makers reccommended amounts for soft water or is the soft water amounts only for naturally soft water areas and not artificially softned water??

 

[rayjay]

WHen I had the softener installed. I had the plumber by pass the outdoor faucets. I think you should be able to do this for the cold water to your washinhg machine, but it would defeat the purpose of having soft water in the warm wash and now the machines mix hot and cold for even the hot water.

On the Persil box, it will tell you how much to use for soft to hard water.

You will have to get your water tested for how man grains per gal.

Hope this helps.

I know with the dishwasher, you use half the recommended amount.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

I thought you just turned off the supply hose to the cold pipe that feeds the washer? I have one blue hose that goes to the mains and one that feeds the washer pipe.

 

[liberatordeluxe]

@ Rayjay In the UK we only have cold fill washing machines. There is no hot and cold fill anymore unless you buy a machine pre 1998!

 

[bosch2460]

I find that hard water helps with rinsing. Soft water is best for washing, and hard water is best for rinsing. Others may disagree. I do have a whole house softener and know that it takes extra rinsing and careful detergent dosing. I can over ride my softening system so no treated water is running through the lines. I do this sometimes when I have used too much soap...it saves time and water, since harder water rinses quicker. When it goes into rinse, I over ride the soft water, and it rinses with hard water. After the final rinse, I change the water back over to softened.