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dirtybuck

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
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Which do you feel cleans better...a standard center post agitator or tumble washer (for all of you with older washers, don't leave yourself out of this post).

I have to go to the laundromat to do my laundry, and though there are both standard Maytag washers, Neptunes, and another brand of tumble washer (the name escapes me right now), I feel that the standard Maytags get the clothes a bit cleaner.
 
I like the agitator version personally.

I like long slow stroke agitators with effective lint filtration, especially if I've been around pets and / or I plan to line-dry. This includes Maytags, an my Kenmores. I have a GE Filter Flo, but it's a water hog and its straight vane agitator is pretty rough on clothes.

Dave
 
Hello Bill i have to say that i like the Neptune i am a sucker for higher extracting machines, and they actually have more water in them then other front loaders.
But if you want to see it wash then the Maytag top loaders
they are good machines most likely Orbital drive ones
please don't overload them.
Happy washing.

Darren k.

aldspinboy++9-8-2010-12-26-18.jpg
 
I can tell you, I had a brand new plastic frigidaire, We moved it with us and sold it to a friend. The last of the "good" Maytags do quite well. I have the Dep Care Maytag. There really is no comparison. Clothing is cleaner, and they spin fast enough for a top loader. You can not beat the CList price of $100. arthur

alr2903++9-8-2010-12-28-41.jpg
 
Laundromats & Front-Loaders: I find the wash portion of the cycle to be too short on machines in laundromats. For that matter, I've found the same to be true of top-loaders in laundromats. But if you have to choose one or the other under those particular circumstances, a top-loader will probably do a better job.

Under all other conditions (where you can choose a longer wash, particularly) I've always preferred front-loaders. I like tumble agitation. It's generally gentler on clothing, and uses less water. I'm getting adjusted to my new washer's ultra-low water levels. I'm beginning to buy the argument that less water in a front-loader actually enhances cleaning, as the detergent is very concentrated and the clothes do a perfect "lift and drop".
 
Use an FL machine if:

- You only get office dust on your work clothes.

- Your hobbies include reading and playing chess.

- You have no animals or have ones that don't shed.

- You're on a septic tank.

- You don't mind long wash cycles.

- You don't mind noisy and vibrating spin cycles.

- You don't soak dirty clothes.

- You don't mind replacing a machine every 5 years.

- You don't mind multiple repairs that can be very expensive during those 5 years of ownership.

- You don't mind the fact that self repairs are generally not viable.

- You don't mind the fact that using bleach may not be an option.

- You don't mind going back to college just to learn how to operate that new FL.

Use a TL if:

- You're a blue collar worker.

- Have hobbies that include getting dirty.

- Have animals that shed.

- On city water/sewer, or could careless about water consumption.

- Desire short wash cycles

- Desire smooth and quiet operation, especially spin cycles.

- Desire soaking clothes (especially important when using oxygen bleach).

- Desire a machine that's generally more reliable and lasts longer (especially vintage machines).

- Desire a machine that's simple and easy to operate.

- Desire a machine that's generally cheap and easily repaired, and DYI at that.

- Actually want clean clothes
 
most likely not

Dan, I have to disagree. I've been using frontloaders and US toploaders all the way through.

Blue collar worker greasy pants/shirts? front loader, 60°C minimum. done.

armpit yellowing? deodorant stains? frontloader.

huge loads, stuffed items, sleeping bags et al? US top loader.

high extraction, want to save on dryer electric bill? front loader.

mixed loads for a quick wash? (darks, colors, whitish just for a fresh-up?) frontloader on half load, quick cycle.

whites? germs, infections in family? boil wash in front loader.

quick dusting off, no stain treatment, in a hurry? US top loaders. (never mind the lint film on all clothes.)

Ok, this may sound cynical, but it is my practical experience.
Of course, it may have to do with the fact that we have self-heating front loaders, I have no comparison whatsoever to US front loaders that feed on gas boiler hot water (which in turn will for sure bake in all protein based stains).

For best results I never skip a Euro front loader, for bulky items I turn to agitators (more wear on fabrics than I am used to, but what the... it's the biker camping stuff only, so no harm done).

Humming away here: AEG Lavamat, GE Filter Flo, Kenmore Dual Action, AEG Nova, Calor tabletop, EBD Toploader.

Ratings:
AEG (beats them all, ok, it is "old style", not the modern Electrolux crap)
then come Calor, EBD
then GE (fairly good filtration but not top compared to AEG non-abrasive wash)
then Kenmore Shredmore (less lint filtration, less stain removal but more spectacular wig-wag-wob squishy-squashy action and fun)

Of course I know: My stuff is just middle of the line in view of some affictionados here, I could do better with real quality machines (Miele et al) but this is what I have.
NEVER have I found a US TL outclean a Euro front loader (or h-axis toploader)
They wash well but not perfect, not even the classical ones (ok Speed Queen no-holes basket TL comes close, but even this one keeps baking in protein based stains and does NOT remove grease well enough to my standards).

Would love to countercheck the US Whirlpool HE machines (they are Euro "Bauknecht Big" machines missing the Bauknecht internal heater and having different cycles (matching the American hot fill manners).
THAT would indeed be a fair test.

Joe
 
I guess I should have noted that this relates to US machines only. Our overseas fellows know how to make quality front loaders that generally don't skimp on water in the wash or rinse cycles, unlike us ignorant morons here in the US.
 
We have 4 dogs who shed. A front loading machine would be impossible for us. We would spend more time cleaning the dog hair out of the washers basket than we do washing clothes.

I'm still not convinced that FL machines get all the soap out of the clothes due to limited rinsing with small amounts of water.
 
I feel you are taking it to an unwanted drift

Never did I intend to insult or harm anyone, let alone expose or mistreat them as "morons" (God and Goddess beware).

I am just pointing out that I would have fun in finding out how a non-heating US frontloader would compare to the identical self-heating Euro model. This only could yield valuable results.

Apart from that I do agree that an answer like yours (quoting another member here: "you need an agitator to agitate") is grammatically correct but misses due and sober observation. Of course will agitation happen more likely in a very agitated amount of suds (when agitated) but that does not tell enough about cleanability, In case any other machines that I have my experiences with might show better results than I am aware of: I will eagerly change my opinion!

Going "toploder = clean" and "frontloader = crap" will surely not meet the facts once it comes to physical and factual measuring. (Taken that I am not best informed about American frontloaders on hot water fill, that's right, still I would love to be, help me out).

Again: I am not here to insult anyone, yet I won't take anything for granted until proved. Mere opionions will do for a buying decision, but for a public place like here I do require facts/real life experiences.

Handshakes!
Joe
 
whirlcool/Allen

Sorry, we apparently posted in the very same minute, my answer refers to Dan. Just to put it clear.
Joe
 
Never did I intend to insult or harm anyone, let alone expose or mistreat them as "morons" (God and Goddess beware).

I was being serious. Our US built FL's use too little water, don't rinse well enough, are cheaply built, and don't last very long. We should be looking at and building overseas FL designs since you guys have been at it much, much longer than we have.
 
most amazing to me

Dan, great you are answering, but WHY the heck are they using so little water?
Ours (in a standard pattern) go like this:
prewash: 1/2 or 2/3 fill (heat up to lukewarm) - drain
main wash: 1/4 to 1/2 fill (heat up to full temp) - drain, spin
cool down (can happen in main wash, may happen now) fill/drain/fill/drain/spin
1st rinse (fill 1/4) drain, spin (short)
2nd rinse (fill 1/4) drain, spin (longer)
3rd rinse (fill 1/2) longest rinse, drain, spin)
4th rinse (fill 1/2, longest agitation, drain)
final spin (spin slow, drain, agitate, spin med, agitate, spin max agitate)
turn off, beep

(this is a standard pattern, it may vary from brand to brand)

what amazes me most: Bauknecht announced the "Big" model with all fanfares claiming "hurray, we enter US" (meaning the HE and HEt and duet models)
What is so different with them one now?
And repeatedly I do hear about mildew!
My washer is exactly my own age, I am old, but never had any of us some mildew.
WT(F)...?
Joe
 
FLs

I think it is quite true that it is the TEMPERATURE that makes the most difference.

I have a FL that is marketed by Whirlpool. Of course it is actually made in Germany for the US market.

It has an internal water heater. I wouldn't have a FL without an internal heater.

The downsides of this one over my old Asko is that you cannot set the temperature up to 95C/203 F in 5 degree C increments, but instead must rely on their pre-set 'cold, warm, hot, extra hot.'

I also have a tankless water heater that I keep at 140F as I want hot water when I want hot water.

I also use Calben detergent which works better than anything else I've ever used, and vinegar in the "fabric softener" compartment to wash out the last of the soap.
 
So overseas FL washers are not energystar???? You're lucky! My Duet was made in Germany though. It uses a pretty good amount of water. I wouldn't hesitate to wash nasty pet hair covered blue collar clothes in mine. There are two people on another forum who has he3t's still working from 2001.

I'm sort of dreading for my Duet to bite the dust. I love it! I know it uses more water because it's from 2004......Each year they get less and less.......I'm still waiting for the auto water level to come back on the FL washers but that's wishful thinking.

Speaking of Euro washers. What's with them using water half way or 2/3 up the drum? I thought they were very eco friendly over there..........I agree.....Our front load washers can not be compared to theirs! I mean.........A boil wash in a washer??????? I didn't even know that was possible until I started reading this forum
 
btw some of the Whirlpool Duets...

..have internal heaters, and some don't. I insisted on buying one WITH a heater (even though the sales droid said 'oh you don't need it') because I knew it would.

We gave up the Asko because my very allergic wife couldn't take scented detergents from the laundromat machines when I used to take the comforter there to be washed.
 
So overseas FL washers are not energystar????

I would imagine they are, but we use a different rating system.

They are rated from A-G for wash, enery efficiency and extraction.

Nowadays there are no machines on the market in the UK which have anything less than and A rating for wash and energy efficiency, may are A+ or greater.

I'd say the average 5kg (1.6 cu.ft) front loader uses around 49l (13 U.S. Gallons) of water for a standard wash and almost all do an absolutely impeccable job of washing and rinsing when used on the appropriate cycle.

Not sure how much an American model would use but I can't imagine it being much less than that, if it is then that, combined with the much shorter cycles and lack of powerful heater would probably explain the less than desirable results some people have found.

My grandad has a dog and my parents have 2 cats and hair is always removed from washed items and never collects in the machine, so that's never been an issue for us either.

As much as I find toploaders entertaining and do love using my hotpoint twin tub, I'd never like to be without a front loader, I just don't feel I could trust anything else to get out the toughest stains without pre-treating or soaking.

Matt
 
So overseas FL washers are not energystar????

Matt is correct...there are different rating systems in different country's though energy star does/did exist here. Having just done a search, the website hasn't been updated since 2005 which effectively makes it completely irrelevant here.....

Here, we have a star rating for energy use and water usage. Unfortunately, the manufacturer gets to choose which cycle they want energy and water rated...but it is rated against both 'warm' and 'cold' temperatures. Most choose 'eco' style cycles for the water consumption though. I keep wondering when that particular government department will wake up and force manufacturers to at least use a cycle which is capable of washing towels - Fisher & Paykels 'eco' cycle recommends you don't...

Additionally, there is also a rinse test. Basically, a trace chemical is placed in the test load...the more of it that is there at the end, the worse the rinse. This test is not placed on the machines unlike the energy and water tests, but machines must pass or are not allowed to be sold.....
 
but WHY the heck are they using so little water?

One word : Eco-nazi's

FL's with internal heaters are definitely the way to go, but I see them being banned (internal heaters) in the future for US residence because they *gasp* use energy.

Actually, depending on the area, increasing the temps on a gas water heater may be cheaper than using an internal resistive electrical heating element. I dunno....

The US has been building modern front loaders for residential use for about 14 years. You guys overseas have been using them, for what, 45+ years? You're are far ahead of us on the leaning curve!
 
Dan, although I've had excellent cleaning from the new Frigidaire, I've also wondered how it would stand up to really grimy jeans/shirts. I'm going to grind some garden dirt/mud/grease into these items tomorrow before work, then wash them on Friday---give 'em some time to dry, first. The machine has proved its worth in cleaning very stained items from the kitchen (and short white socks with blackened bottoms) using very little water, but that's still different than a load that has a lot of dirt/mud in it.

I'll use a prewash, the stain treat option, the Heavy cycle and an extra (3rd) rinse. No Max Fill option (not that it adds much more water, anyway), no steam, no 152 degree sanitize wash. Persil Bio detergent with some Tri-Zyme. If the results are poor, I'll try the same test with 152 degree water and the steam option. That wouldn't use any more water, but it would be a long cycle (about 1 hour and 45 minutes).
 
Dan...

...to some degree you are right about that....Europeans have been using them for 45 or so years, but smaller homes, lack of dedicated laundry rooms and the need to 'build over/in' has dictated the style of the machine more than anything else. Oh, and don't forget, the US had them too...

Looking at what people post about how they do their laundry is facinating for me. Generally speaking, Europeans are less fazed by cycle time and overall capacity than Americans with Australians somewhere in between.

The number of times I've seen written in these pages "I'm not going to wait over 30m/45m/1hr etc for the washing to be done" is amazing. This style of comment appears to be more normal for Nth Americans than anyone else. Europeans seem to care less about the time taken and more about the thoroughness of wash, gentleness and, in the last 20yrs, environmental impact.

To some degree, the environmental impact of a machine is starting to make people think differently here too but because of water restrictions caused by a seemingly never ending drought rather than anything else (though, we have flooding in parts of the country at the moment).

The use of powders or liquids, gels, capsules, tablets, pre-soak, additional boosters, Cl. Bleach etc is also interesting as is the obsession with 'santizing' that seems to have pervaded some cultures....it is all part of being in a group where cultural differences are as vast and as different as the countrys we live in.

For my money, and to get this back on track, I tend to use the front load machines in a laundromat....I prefer them.
 
I'm going to grind some garden dirt/mud/grease into thes

Its only a fair test if you also put similar items through a cycle in a top loader....else what are you comparing the cleaning ability to?
 
Fair enough....

....but others may make an indirect comparison for you with 'my XYZ would have shifted that with no trouble' type statements....
 
I've also wondered how it would stand up to really grimy jeans/shirts.

An interesting note on different fabrics:

I have several sets of old pants and shirts that I wear for when I'm guaranteed to get downright disgustingly dirty. Some pants/shirts find their way into the tub caked in grease and dripping wet in oil, and ALL of the stains come out....every time! And then there other pants/shirts that I use that may get a drop or 2 of oil and maybe a small smear of grease, and the stains stubbornly refuse to shift and are permanently set..... every time. What makes it even more interesting is that all of the above are washed in the same tub at the same time. *Scratches head*
 
I'm curious about the comments regarding pet hair.

We've got a Rottweiler that sheds 1.5" long hairs which end up deposited everywhere.

When Mum had a DD Whirlpool, and you washed dog blankets or towels you always had to take a damp sponge and wipe the machine out at the end, because it was coated with dog hair. You could run it through empty but nothing would get rid of the hair short of wiping it out.

Now she's got a Miele FL and whilst there are hairs here and there left behind after a cycle, there isnt enough to make blanket out of the hair like their was on the whirlpool. It all ends up in the Laundry tub drain.

So I'm not sure where these theories about Dog hair come from. The blankets still end up clean and hair free even when line dried. Has anyone done a side by side comparison?
 
It seems that the companies who make FL machines have switched to letting the dryer do the job of animal hair removal from clothing. Hence, the coating of hair inside the wash basket.

I swear nothing got rid of dog hair like the GE FF machines.
 
When Mum had a DD Whirlpool.....

Did it have a lint filter? A lot of them don't.

I really should have stated that most TL's made today DON'T have a removable lint filter anymore that's easily accessed and serviced (yes, this even applies to the coveted Speed Queens), so it's pretty much a moot point for modern TL's made in the last 20 years or so. The lint filter issue pretty much applies to vintage TL machines only, with the exception of some makes and models, like GM Frigidaires and other overflowing rinse type washer designs.
 
I have two cats and wash their beds/blankets and then you get cat hair on your clothes as well. I don't have any issues with pet hair. I should mention that I adjusted my Duet to use more water a long time ago (but not by much)

Also on mine, the sanitary cycle is almost 2.5 hours, and when it's running on sanitary, (which I don't use often) it heats the laundry room up somewhat like the dryer does. Touching the side of the washer or the door feels like a dryer that's running on high heat.

Speaking of cats! I'm LMAO at this vid I just found!

 

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