Bad Knees, Anyone?

[frigilux]

I've been having problems with my left knee for the past two years which have become noticeably worse the past month. I hate going to doctors, but I did get to a physical therapist about nine months ago who told me the source of the problem is the meniscus in that knee.

I really, REALLY don't want to have knee surgery, but it's gotten to the point where if I've been sitting more than five minutes, I hobble like a 99-year old for about seven-to-ten steps when I stand up to walk. Then things gradually smooth out. I generally have to stand up and remain stationary for a few seconds before I can even begin my hobbling.

Once I can put weight on my left knee, I navigate stairs without a problem. This is fortunate, as there are a lot of stairs in my house: Four from the garage to the lower level (living room, laundry room, office), ten up to the second level (kitchen, dining) and three more to the upper level (bedrooms, bathroom, computer room/office #2).

I've been very careful working outdoors---mowing, etc. I have no trouble walking once the knee "adjusts itself", but if I slip or put weight on the left leg at a particular angle, or pivot on it incorrectly, YEOW!

Do these symptoms sound familiar to any of you? If so, what do you do to care for it? I've been taking some friend-donated Vicodin (as you may notice from the numerous grammatical errors in my posts the past couple of days, LOL), but I certainly don't want to rely on a highly-addictive painkiller for which I have no prescription.

Suggestions, anyone? Thanks in advance!

 

[qsd-dan]

Suggestions, anyone?

Have you tired glucosamine and chondroitin? Made a world of difference for my knees just after 3 days of dosage. No pain since using this stuff 6+ years ago.

 

[appnut]

I agree with Dan 100000%. I'vve been on the stuff twice a day for 6 or 7 years. I ran out once because i didn't have the money to go to Sams and buy some more. In 3 days I found out I had what my doctor called bursitis, apparently, in my right arm, I never knew I had. It works. I'd try it and see what happens iwth your knee.

 

[danemodsandy]

Frigilux:

I have the same problems. There are two things that help me, one of which I cannot do right now, so I am having some trouble.

One is, no one over forty-five should live in a house with stairs if it is at all avoidable. I'm presently in a three-storey house, so I'm a fine one to talk, eh? But stairs stress knees, and the older you get, the less margin you have. The next place will be on one level, trust me.

The other is, get your weight down if you've any extra. Every extra pound is just that much more strain for the knees.

Aside from that, gentle walking is good, because you build leg and knee musculature that helps hold things in place. Eat a balanced diet; nutrition is key to collagen-building. And as you've found, there are certain movements that are to be avoided at all costs. I, like you, am not fond of surgery; I had to let a folded meniscus heal on its own several years ago, without surgery or drugs (which I cannot take, due to being in recovery from alcohol for 20 years; I don't fool around with anything that might be a gateway back to addiction of any kind).

Those were about the roughest six weeks I can ever remember.

 

[danemodsandy]

P.S., Frigilux:

The supplements mentioned here by others are also extremely helpful for many people.

 

[mixfinder]

Gone is Gone

Have you had a session with an orthopedic surgeon? If there is damage to soft tissue, debriments are minimally invasive and helpful. If the joint is shot, unless you wedge the pill bottle to stop the bone rubbing on bone regardless of what you take is a short term resolution. The herbal joint remedies are linked to an increase in blood pressure so a doctor's advice is always prudent. You might be as lucky to find it’s a gait issue. The way your shoes wear and how you land and press off with footfalls tell a lot about how much shock the joint is subjected to. Weight or lack of it is helpful. Many people who have nursed knee issues find they are resolved with hip replacements. Nerves, muscles, tendons often impact from their conjoined movement from above the knee. The National Chronic Pain Foundation based in Dallas Texas has so much to offer for you in deciding where to go. Neurontin (gabepentin) has shown to relieve many issues of nerve related pain impulses. Before the last round of spine and neck surgeries I was taking 20 milligrams of Methadone, 40 milligrams of vicodine, 4,000 units of Neurontin, Celebrex and aspirin. For most of that time I was using more than a fifth of Vodka a day. No pain killer can touch alcohol for effectiveness. I was never free of pain but the cocktail of prescription drugs would let me be less tense about living with pain. I did bio feedback (nothing causes me more stress than relaxation) acupuncture, physical therapy and if I wasn't standing, I was using inversion therapy. I had countless ablations, rhyzotomies, steroid injections and anything else the Pain Clinic dreamt up. The mantra was, let’s try some physical therapy, ice packs and two weeks off work. Usually at the end of two weeks you felt better and the day you went back to work the relief was in the crapper. Constant movement, mostly standing although none of it strenuous was how I was most comfortable Forget about sleep. The moment you lay down and the nerves start jangling there's no relief. I have had both so many foot surgeries I lost count, knees debried, 7 spine surgeries, double carpal tunnel and as soon as I'm "older" the hips are recommended. Current hip joints have a life expectancy of 30 years. 5 years ago you were lucky if you got 5-7. Darrel, sit very quietly with your body and journal anything that exacerbates or diminishes the symptoms. Talk to as many people as you know who've had treatments and surgeries and begin to decide what you think might work for you. Ask your doctor who he would go to for his knee pain. There is no right or wrong. What works for me may not work for another person. It helps to be clear with yourself what modality works and then begin the constantly brainwashing for success. Where the mind is the body follows. If there are tasks or exercises that you simply cannot do without increased discomfort, accept you must cease. Hydrotherapy and aqua sizing cause the least impact on joint movement. Go to a podiatrist. If it's possible try to replicate the orthotic prosthetic without spending the $1,000.00 medical science wants to charge. My podiatrist has his patients wear ProFoot inserts and he uses the impressions on the ProFoot to make the permanent appliances. You can buy a lot of $30.00 ProFoot before an $850.00 orthotic Appliance. I wear Crocs. I didn't like the big Boxy ones so I wear a Croc sandal year round. My feet, knees, hips and lower back all thank me.
I met an angel in 2007. Her name is Jayashiree Srinivason. She was shocked no one offered surgery as an option for the neck. The first surgery in August of 2007 allowed me to wake up pain free. I haven't had a narcotic pain reliever since. The second procedure a year later fused the C7 to the previously fised C4 C5 and C6. Her experience demonstrated fusing more than 3 vetabra at a time doubled recovery. I am a propeonent and devotee of fix the damn thing. Screw the therapy and duck and hold. I have a life to life and I want my body to come along.

Ansel Adams, I'm not yet here is study of arthritic varicosity in Croc on Inversion devise.

 

[supremewhirlpol]

I take 1500mg a day of Glucosamine/condroiton. I've had 2 ACL reconstructive surgeries on my right knee and it still bothers me on certain days and during the winter. I use a knee wrap that has magnets in it, and it seems to reduce the pain.

 

[sudsmaster]

I've also had some knee pain over the years. Left knee, tibia fractured at the knee, crushed a bit, 30 years ago, I got used to it. Then the right knee started giving me pain this last fall - going up stairs. There are stairs at work and it became sort of a problem. I found an interesting web site on knee pain, and the part about stairs helped a lot. Proper foot placement and posture can help a lot. Here's a link:

Fix Your Own Knee Pain Without Drugs Or Surgery With Dr. Bookspan

 

[xraytech]

I have a knee pain, mine increases as my shoes wear because of how my foot sits in them, so I need new shoes every 1-2 months. It also dosen't help that I have a few extra pounds and that I spend my day on my feet running at the hospital or standing in the OR, and most of the hospital has terrazo floors, which dont help much, and prior to that I spent my time on a hard concrete floor working in a restaurant cleaning and flouring chicken and other prep work. I also have had som eknee injuries in the past that were never addressed. My knees get more of a burning and throbbing pain which radiates up or down my knees and they also click and occasionally lock. I mean to try the glucosimine but I always forget to buy some, and a cortizone shot has helped. I do believe I have a little rheumatoid arthritis, as I already have a diminished joint space in my knees as well as in my lumbar and thoracic spine.

 

[retro-man]

I have had numerous knee problems over the years. All related to playing football in high school and college. Skiing, rock climbing and falling in general. I have Osgood Slaters disease in the left knee. Over the years I favored that leg and let me right knee do the majority of the work. Well I wore the right knee out. I have tried all the pills on the market as well as pain killers which I detest. I have found that Synvex injections are the real thing that works for me besides a knee replacement. I have to go today for my second injection. They give you 3 injections over the period of 3 weeks. One a week. 1st they inject a dose of a numbing agent then inject the synvex. They are trying something different this time, some sort of acid liquid that is supposed to stay in the knee cap area better. I have these done usually once a year. Not the most fun thing but it makes all the difference in the world. One thing is don't kneel down unless you have major cushion underneath, such as a couple of bath towels or a pillow. Kneeling is the worst thing you can do to your knees. So much compression on the joints and bones. Go to your orthopedic dept. Do some x-rays and let them take it from there. Hope this helps you and others. Oh and another good point is on stairs, if my knee is really hurting I go up one at a time, good knee 1st then bring the bad one up. Takes awhile longer but no pain.
Jon

 

[spiceman1957]

Frigilux

Mixfinder is right! Get a good evaluation from a Ortho. physician. There many new treatments that can delay surgery on your knee. My brother recently had a treatment where a physican injected a synthetic substance that acts as a cushion under and around the knee cap. It can last usually 6 months or better. He states it made a world of difference By all means have only a knee replacement as a last resort. Sorry about you being in a lot of pain. My mom had RA and I know what you are going through! Speaking of "pain" does anyone here have chronic back like me?

 

[polkanut]

My Mom had the the injections were the fluid from a rooster's comb is injected (could be Synvex). She had it done in both knees, and it lasted about 1yr each. She eventually had to have both replaced due to a genetic tendency for rheumatoid arthritis on her mother's side.

 

[frigilux]

Thanks for all the suggestions (voodoo---the fluid from a rooster's comb?!--- and otherwise, LOL) for my knee issue, guys! I see I'm not the only one dealing with it. You just don't realize how important your knees are until one of them doesn't cooperate.

I'm going to give glucosamine a try, first, and then move on from there. I purchased this bottle today, and if it seems to help, I'll pick up more when I'm at Sam's Club in two weeks.

From what I read at various sites, the studies done on glucosamine run both ways. Some show it offers no more pain relief than a placebo; others show that it helps more than that.

The instructions say to "take 2 tablets with a meal", so I'm guessing this means to take two at once, not one tablet at two different times during the day.

 

[perc-o-prince]

if I slip or put weight on the left leg at a particular angl

Hi Gene,

I had just written a whole thing about having the same knee pain as you (feels like someone stabbing the head of your femur w/ a sharp knife, doesn't it?), and it got lost.

The bottom line was that I went through 3 arthroscopic surgeries to "repair" a right medial meniscus in about 10 year's time (full recovery each time, but new injuries). I had a work injury in 1997 that damaged both medial menisci, and possibly the right lateral as well. Glu/Cho didn't help me. Tried cortizone shots and they gave some temporary relief. Synvisc didn't, but same as G/C, it doesn't help every case. Cortizone still helps short-term. Stopped taking Darvocet a couple of years ago because it wasn't really helping since the pain usually goes away pretty quickly once you re-adjust your position. Right knee is ready for replacement, but not an option right now (a whole other story).

I wanted to urge you to get to an orthopaedic physician or surgeon so s/he could check you out. If it IS something as simple as a torn meniscus, it's a problem that exists, doesn't mend itself, and you could get worse with each YEOW you have. Plus, you'd be amazed at how fast you recover if you begin PT right after the surgery and do your exercizes. It's a simple day surgery, and you're home several hours afterwards!

Let us know how you make out!

Chuck

 

[foraloysius]

Eugene,

I asked a close friend, a Norwegian doctor, to have a look at this thread. He said that Glucosamine is more used for treating Osteoarthritis. It's not really for problems with the meniscus which he thinks it probably indeed is. He also said such problems only can be treated by surgery. And with surgery it is most of the time the sooner the better.

I don't think that is what you wanted to hear but just wanted to share this doctor's view (and a nice doctor he is!).

Louis

 

[mixfinder]

Louis maybe we should consult on this case.

Glucosamine may help, two rocks in your pocket may helps, holding an ice cube to the roof of your mouth with a micing spoon may help[. If it does do it twice. If ignoring the issue makes it worse, stop the insanity. All of it begins with a medical opinion.

A gentlemen went to the doctor for years with multiple syptoms and none of them had merit. The exasperated physician finally said, "for heaven's sake it's in your head!" "I demand a second opinion," the patient screamed.

"You're ugly too," said the doctor.

 

[bendix5]

A few months after my heart surgery I fell off of the ladder washing the van and tore my meniscus. At first it just hurt and I thought ok it needs to heal. Then the pain started again so intense off and on I finally went to the orthopedic doc and he told me what had happened and recommended surgery. After heart surgery another surgery of any kind was not in my plan. I hobbled around for a few more months and finally went back and said lets get it over with. Out patient surgery with 4 holes in the knee. He went in and filed it down and cleaned out all of the pieces that had been floating around. Out the door in two hours and after about two weeks of light duty I was back to normal walks, hikes, work etc. It was a simple procedure. I had it done Thursday and was back to work on Monday. My advice is to at least go have it checked out CT or MRI and go from there.
Best of luck and keep us posted Dano Bendix5

 

[perc-o-prince]

My advice is to at least go have it checked out CT or MRI an

And hopefully your MRI doesn't come back "unconfirmed" as far as being able to see the problem. Seems to me that was the term they used for 2 of the 3 knee MRIs and 1 elbow MRI I've had! Basically, "We're not saying we can't see anything, but we're not saying we can."

Chuck

 

[retro-man]

So after my second injection this past monday I decided to take tuesday off and just rest my knee. I wanted to do a few things around the house like vaccumm and change the dogs bed and our bed a few loads of laundry no big deal. All was going well did the vaccumming and washed kitchen floor while wife changed the dogs bed and stripped our bed and laid the new sheets on top. I came in and was making the bed which is a king size water bed. I walked directly full force into the corner of the bed with the knee I have been having all the problems with. It was that white pain where you can't see or hear, you just stand there shaking. I dislodged my knee cap which I put back into place myself and severely brusied the bone on the side of the knee. Having a hard time keeping it in any position for any length of time. Of course I hit it so hard that I cut the skin about an inch and had blood running down my leg. Tomorrow I go for my last injection. Not sure how thats going to go. Can't walk for very many steps at a time and when I do it's slow going. I swear I am my worst enemy. I hate being so graceful at this age. I thought I would have grown out of this by now. Anybody else still a cluts? lol
Jon