Baking Issue -- Need Advice

Automatic Washer - The world's coolest Washing Machines, Dryers and Dishwashers

Help Support :

rp2813

rp2813

Well-known member
Platinum Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
18,010
Location
Sannazay
Notwithstanding the ridiculousness of the Gaggeneau EB 388 610 gas oven I'm dealing with, the last couple of things I've baked in a loaf pan haven't risen well.  Up until recently, I've had good results over the past couple of years.  Per the user guide, convection is the recommended method for all baking and I've learned that it's also the best at maintaining consistent and accurate temperature, at least with this particular oven.

 

I'm thinking the culprits could be any or all of these:  Old baking powder, old baking soda, or inferior Mexican flour that was the only item on the shelves back during the first COVID wave earlier this year when things were scarce. 

 

I just pulled an apple cider doughnut loaf cake out (the recipe in Sunday's paper sounded good) and it didn't even rise above the rim of the pan.

 

Are there any other contributing factors that I haven't considered?  

 

I've attached the page from the user guide with various oven options for your amusement, bewilderment, and collective mockery, and the short loaf.

[this post was last edited: 12/9/2020-21:18]

rp2813-2020120919420900291_1.jpg

rp2813-2020120919420900291_2.jpg
 
Ralph I don’t know anything about convection ovens,  I’ve never used one.  But I would say that maybe the pan size could be the culprit.

 

 I know that recipes I’ve used for loaf cakes and quick breads bake up higher in 8”X4” pans as opposed to the 9”X5” pans I used to use.  Also, the age of the baking powder especially can effect the proper rising of cakes or quick breads, fresh baking soda isn’t as critical at in least my experience.  I’ve used baking soda that was 2 years old and worked fine.  I get fresh baking powder about every 6 months.

 

As for the convection oven, I’d just follow the owners manual or recipe instructions for convection ovens.

 

Eddie
 
May well be heavier flour than you're used to...the name brand flours in the US are pretty reliable and repeatable...Gold Medal/Pillsbury are one % of protein, southern flours (Red Band/Southern Biscuit/White Lily) are lower than that but consistent, Canadian are higher and consistent. Supermarket flours are probably logically consistent (Publix and Winn Dixie softer than, say, Kroger or Safeway). Change out the baking powder; work through the flour and you should be OK.
 
Thanks guys.  The recipe called specifically for a loaf pan, either 8.5" x 4.5" or 9" x 5".  I used a 9 x 5 Corningware pan since my favorite L.A. Pottery loaf pan measures a little larger than that.

 

I know my powder is old, so that's the prime suspect.  I'll pick up some domestic flour if the reprise of TP & PT  hoarding hasn't yet spilled over to baking materials.  If I'm stuck with the Mexican A.P. flour (El Rosal brand out of Mexicali, B.C.) would sifting it help even if not called for in a given recipe?

 

 
 
Ralph, aerate your flour by either stirring it with a whisk to fluff it up before you measure it or shake the container before measuring.

 

 I keep my flour in a large Rubbermaid jar with a screw top, I shake it before measuring this way the flour isn’t packed.  I’ve weighed flour measured this way and it comes out to 4.25 oz. per cup, which is the recommended weight for 1 cup All Purpose flour.  I level the measuring cup with my finger, like I’ve seen Ina Garten do.  I buy Target Market Pantry or Good and Gather flour.

 

And I would recommend using the smaller size pan that is listed in the recipe, your cake will come out higher, guaranteed.

 

Eddie
 
You mentioned using a Corningware pan, might be part of the issue. If you use a non metalic pan you need to adjust the temp of the oven down, usually 25 degrees. I think your issue may be the baking powder. I use mine for years, but it is well sealed and I've never had an issue, but it is a cheap fix.

I uses convection for all my baking, again you are supposed to adjust the oven temp down 25 degrees, but I've never done that. Some ovens may do that automatically in the convection mode, you might want to check that on your oven.

One last thing- calibrate your oven. A cheap oven thermometer will work, my VOM came with a thermister and using that I got a very accurate setting. It's interesting to see how the temp swings up and down over a few minutes. Took me a bit of time to tame that as best I could. My oven has electronic controls with the option to adjust the temp burried in the various settings, Worth checking.
 
Thanks Eddie, I'll remember those procedures and measurements for flour going forward.  I don't think I own a smaller loaf pan than the sizes I mentioned above, but I assume the metal ones are smaller so I'll pick one up.  I got rid of all metal loaf pans when we moved, not realizing that the Corning and ceramic ones I kept were larger than average.

 

As for today's finished product, I'm not all that impressed considering the work and mess that was involved.  I cut a slice off the loaf and the overwhelming flavor profile was reminiscent of Bisquick coffee cake, although the texture was much smoother.  Very little apple evident.  And to think the recipe was adapted from Bon Apetit!  I won't be making it again. 
 
All Metal Loaf Pans Aren’t Equal

Ralph, these are the loaf pans I use for baking our weekly bread and for quick breads and loaf cakes.  They are the Wilton Recipe Right loaf pans, medium size 8.5”X4.5” loaf pans.  They are inexpensive, True Value Hardware carries them, thats where I bought mine.  I had been using aluminum 9.5”X5.25” loaf pans that I’ve had since ‘78.  The difference in all my bread baking was improved.  The smaller size and smaller volume results in higher, more perfectly shaped loaves.  They were worth every penny of the $5.19 price per pan. 

 

HTH,

Eddie

www.wilton.com

Aluminum Bakeware Long Loaf Pan

This Wilton long loaf pan makes 11 x 4 inches of bread so you don't have to make it as often. It's also great for all kinds of other sweet and savory foods too!
www.wilton.com www.wilton.com
 
Temp swing

Hey Ralph,

 

I have to respectfully disagree with Matt on a few points:

 

-Oven thermometer- the cheap dial thermometers sold at Walmart, Ace, etc take a long time to read the correct temp of the oven by way of their design. If you're concerned about the calibration of your oven, get a digital one with a probe that goes in the oven and connects wirelessly or with a wire to the main unit outside the oven. These react almost instantly to temp change.

 

-Temp swings- they are inevitable and present in all ovens. Some mfgrs include settings that may help tighten the swing. A swing of 25F + and - the desired temp is not unusual for a gas oven, but that can usually be tamed to within 12-15Ffrom what I saw with Miele. Our electric ovens had a tighter swing from the start, but that doesn't mean all brands will act that way.

 

-Adjusting the temp for convection- the lowering of temp by 25f for convection should only be necessary if you are using a recipe that was not written for a convection oven; for example, Aunt Ida's famous pound cake recipe from the 50's. Unfortunately trial and error will be the only way to be sure for recipes in that middle range, say from the 80's through the early 2000's. I'm pretty sure most recipes today take convection into consideration.

 

Hope your issue is just the baking powder! I know it affected the biscotti I made last holiday season so I just bought a new can since I'll be making them soon for this year!

 

Chuck
 
Hi Ralph,

I can't speak to any potential issues with your oven, but assuming it's operating as it should, it has been my experience in baking that when things don't rise properly or evenly, it has always been due to one of two reasons:

1. Ingredients. Fresh, fresh, fresh. I hate to throw out things that are barely used, but I've learned my lesson with all leaveners: baking powder, baking soda, yeast, eggs, etc. The performance diminishes with age. Flour, if sealed well and kept airtight, will last a long time, but I have found that old flour that has been exposed to air will lack performance.

2. Baking pans. There's been a lot of good observations and advice already given here about that issue.

Happy baking!
 
Convection oven ......

My GE Profile wall mount oven automatically decreases the temp. If I set it to bake with convection to 375, it never goes above 350. The southern pound cake recipe the wife baked last week calls for 425. She uses the convection option to bake cakes. After setting the oven to 425, the max temp it came up to was 400. It shortened the bake time by about 15 minutes as well ..... so checking for done before what the recipe calls for is imperative. The convection option for the pound cake makes for a beautiful golden appearance without drying out the cake ..... which seems to happen if using the standard bake option.
 
Chuck, we really don't disagree, I think the first rudimentary step is to just check the oven temp. I do not see a lot of folks going out to buy a pricier digital thermometer for what amounts to a one time use. I got my Electrolux to minimize the swings but not to 12 degrees, that is excellent.
 
Re: Reply#10

Bud are you sure that this Pound Cake called for 425F?  Could this be a typo? I’ve never seen any Pound Cake recipe calling for such a high oven temp.  Usually they call for 325F, but I’ve seen Pound  Cake recipes calling for as low as 275F and as high as 350F,  but at 425F I think it would over brown before the center was fully baked.

 

One other thing I’ve learned in the past year, after 55+ years of baking is that room temperature ingredients result in a better cake, especially the volume.  To quickly get eggs straight out of the fridge to room temp I place them in a small bowl and cover them with hot tap water and let them sit while I’m measuring the the ingredients and preparing the pans.  Cold milk can be warmed to room temp quickly by placing the glass or plastic measuring cup with the measured milk into the microwave oven at 10% power for about 1-2 mins.

 

I always thought that room temp ingredients was baloney, but I tried it and became a believer.

 

Eddie

[this post was last edited: 12/10/2020-14:30]
 
I've cooked convection for years

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Bud,</span>

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">A long time ago I learned when you convert a recipe you drop the temp by 25 degrees or bake less time.  I've never seen a recipe where I did both.  I'm with Eddie on the 425.  That does seem high especially in a convection oven because I would think the outside would be really dry and dark.  I only use 400+ in the convection oven if I want to brown something on the outside quickly.</span>

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">I could be wrong, I've just not seen one.  Glad the pound cake came out so well.  I love a nice slice of pound cake with some fruit and whipped cream on top.  What the hell right, if you're gonna eat all those eggs and butter you might as well go the whole way and add some full fat whipped cream.  Right?</span>

 

<span style="font-family: helvetica;">Ralph</span>
 
Thanks to all for the additional replies.

 

This oven control stops providing temperature settings ending with a 5 once you get up to 300 degrees, I think.  The recipe called for a 325 oven, so I set it for 320 as opposed to 330.  I've had ovens with a convection option since 1990 and have usually adjusted the temperature lower when using it, but on this POS Gaggeneau, it seems to do fine with using the conventional oven temperature setting even when using convection, and usually requires the full amount of baking time as well.   I actually bumped it up to 330 for the final ten minutes or so when baking this loaf.  Again, it's an extremely overpriced POS that the former owner installed in her trophy kitchen (clearly she wasn't a cook, as the companion "Vario 200" modular cooktop is just as lame), but since this built-in oven is an odd size, replacement would require major cabinetry alterations, so for the time being I have to put up with it.

 

What the convection option is good at is limiting temperature swings.  Not so much when using non-convection baking.  Then it takes forever to pre-heat and the temp swings are significant.  That explains why the guide pictured above suggests the convection option for baking.

 

I have an oven thermometer around here somewhere so will double check, but I'm pretty sure the temperature settings are fairly accurate just based on my experience over the past 2.5 years.

 

 
 
A variance of 25 degrees more or less isn’t going to make an appreciable difference with the finished results of most baked goods.  It just means that they will either bake slower or faster than the recipe suggests.  This is why most times given for recipes have a window, says 35-40 mins for instance.  I always check anything I’m baking at the soonest recommended time and adjust for any additional time accordingly.

 

Just keep and eye on what your baking, don’t be to anal about the temps, unless your oven is WAY off, say you set it for 325F and it is actually 375F, then the thermostat needs to be recalibrated.    Also, once you bake a particular recipe, note what the time was when the item was properly baked  for future reference.

 

HTH

Eddie
 
once you bake a particular recipe, note what the time was

Eddie-

 

That's one of the reasons I can't get rid of my falling-apart-a-bit Fannie Farmer cookbook from 1987! All kinds of notes made in recipes re: time, temp, ingredients, etc.!

 

Chuck
 
Chuck, I too do the same thing with all my cookbooks and recipes.  I have notations next to almost every recipe I’ve ever used, either changing the amounts, the ingredients, times, temp or method of putting the dish or baked good together.

 

Now I use the internet and do searches for different things, review several, make mental notes of what I like or don’t like, them come up with my own composite recipe using the things that I like from various different recipes.  Then I write the recipe down and I have a great big stack of these handwritten recipes rubber banded together and kept in the front covers of three different cookbooks.  

 

I guess I kinda run my own “test kitchen” LOL.  But doing this has made me a better cook and baker I believe.  I think that I can always learn something new, and I do every day.

 

Eddie
 
When measuring the oven temp with a thermocouple be sure that infrared radiation isn't skewing your readings. I have data logged temperature curves on my oven and initially I was seeing huge 30+ Deg F swings which I thought seemed excessive. I formed a tubular shield from aluminum foil about 2" in diameter and placed the thermocouple bead in the center of the tube. On subsequent runs the temp swings were less than half the initial tests. Infrared energy from the elements was clearly heating the thermocouple.

Granted the food you would cook would feel the heat of the infrared energy also, but if one is assuming they are measuring cavity air temp, the results may be radically off when the elements are energized.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top