being gay in 1950 and liking washing machines...

[washertalk]

These days there are some who romanticize certain periods in history. All of us here do, lets face it. We always come back to the reality of that.
I know my view of being gay in 1975 or 1980 or 1985 and what that most likely was like.
It frightens me to think, what would it be like to be gay in America, in 1950. And have a interest in Washing Machines and appliances. Especially if you put in other variables like, living rurally, living with racist relatives, being poor, not being white, etc. Someone enlighten me.

 

[foraloysius]

Did you ever see the movie "Far from heaven"?

http://www.farfromheavenmovie.com/

 

[dalangdon]

While I like post-war industrial design and advertising, I am under no allusions that is was a good time to be anyone with half a mind, at least in the United States.

McCarthyism, rigid gender roles, institutionalized racism, bland, bland conformity. No thanks.

Of course, out of that repression came some great social movements, just as out of World War II came some great technological breakthroughs, and out of the Depression came some great economic policies, so I guess it all evens out in the end.

And some of the literature and humor of the '50's was great, which just shows that people can do their best work under adverse conditions.

 

[maytagbear]

It is not a constant delight

to be gay in the United States of 2006, but from what I have read, and learned, it was much worse pre-Stonewall.

I am very grateful to have been born when I was born, and born to the educated, sophisticated parents I had.

One of my Dad's brothers was bisexual, and several of Ma's friends were gay.

Look up Jonathan Katz's Gay American History, and Cures, a Gay Man's Odyssey by Martin Duberman.

If you want a lighter approach to similar material, try the new Tab Hunter and Richard Chamberlain autobiographies.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[Unimatic1140]

While I like post-war industrial design and advertising, I am under no allusions that is was a good time to be anyone with half a mind, at least in the United States.

I couldn't agree more with you Dan, if I could pop back in time to the 50's, it would only be for a very cool visit, pick up a few MIB things to sell on eBay and then I would want to get right back to the relative "safety" of the 21st century.

 

[gyrafoam]

Since the whole world was so different in the 1950's it is hard to even make a comparison to today.

Atlanta was nothing like it is now. Even the old "southern" mindset is almost completely gone unless I run into a rare "old-timer" to chat with every now and then.

Oh, I remember unpleasant things. There were not as MANY unpleasant things back then as there are now. Life was so much simpler.No one ever locked their doors and a key to your car stayed right in the ignition so you never had to look for it. Some folks may remember the early fifties GM cars that had a little lip on the ignition switch. If you took the key out with the switch set in the "off" position rather than the "locked" position---you did not need to use the key again to start and stop the car---and many folks never used the key on that car again! Back in the '50's if there was a murder the whole city was shocked and appalled.People spoke of it in hushed whispers so as not to upset us children, and some women wept at the impending doom of the "end times".
Now there are half a dozen murders or more a day and everyone ho-hums right on through the news.

For the most part I had a great time. I loved visiting my friends and checking out their household laundry equipment.
If the house was really old this sometimes required a trip to the basement, I somehow always figured out a way to go snooping no matter where. If I had to endure a day on the social circuit with mom I always found a way to see what new and different laundry equipment there was.
All this was extra special if said equipment was running at the time. I rarely got shooooed away, and was as persistent as a horse-fly if I was.

Lots of folks who lived in the newly forming suburbs had carports and there was almost always a little laundry room out there. I was good at figuring out what kind of machine I was listening to before I even opened the door to sneak a peek. Didn't usually bother if I heard a 'Kenmo (Whirlys were rare around here back then). Didn't hate 'em but they did not have the appeal of hearing the solenoid of an old "flat-top" Unimatic snapping the trip shaft lever---and that wonderful sound of the motor ramping up to spin speed. Or a 'Noge,(Maytag, Wizard, S.Q. Philco,Thor, or nearly ANY other solid-tub machine of the day) pump alternately sucking air and water. And that kind of rattling noise an old "Rustinghouse" "cement mixer" front loader used to make when spinning.

Some of the houses I remember simply ran the drain house out into the back yard or down the driveway to drain. I guess they could not afford or didn't care to add the extra plumbing. I always thought it kind of a uniquely southern thang to do.(Of course I had not yet figured out this tied in with my obsession with water). When visiting our family up north, I never remember a machine draining outside like that. I guess somwhere they did.

Oh and the Bendix machines. I usedtocould ( yep, thats one word----a very southern expression) reproduce the sounds of the Duomatic's different spin speeds before puberty changed my voice.

Anyway, I have some great memories of the fifties and I'm glad I lived it.

Am anxious to hear of others experiences.

 

[washertalk]

That is good. I have to admit I have certain feelings of dread about anytime before 1960ish and especially about "The South". It helps, me anyway, to humanize that. I need that.
We are all people, right.

 

[mixfinder]

A Proper Time

No one ever spoke of sexual acts, period. I went to college at 18 and had no idea what gay or homo was. I had been sexually active with relatives and frends since I was 12. The idea I was gay never crossed my mind. Everywhere we were people behaved with propiety.
I remeber the 50's as a time when people became self absorbed, because they could. Prosperity abounded, running the household was becoming easier and for the first time people were beginning to travel. I was disappointed when social unrest became the mantra of the 60's and we where no longer allowed to enjoy our own happiness and success. We were told it was someone else's expense and we should feel guilty. I fully believed bigotry would end with my generation since we knew better. I would go back to that time in a heart beat. I don't think MacCarthyism is any worse than Militant Leftist who have participated in attempting to remove all sanction for moral control.
Kelly

 

[dalangdon]

Well, I say THANK GOD for the "militant leftists" who lead the way out of the closet. Hopefully they can lead us out of this current mess we're in.

"Moral control" should come from the inside, not be forced on us by so-called leaders. The closet is no place to spend your life.

 

[scott55405]

I think there are good and bad about both periods, and each could probably stand to "learn" things from the other, but I would have to say overall this is a wonderful and interesting time to be alive. There are a lot of things I remember that I miss about the "good old days", but quite frankly I don't think I'd want to go back even to the 80s at this point. Better music, maybe less crime, but no cell phones, no computers or email, have to write checks and send your bills in the mail and carry cash or a checkbook because there were a lot of places like grocery stores and etc that didn't even accept cards? No Mapquest? And I think about trying to make this big move without the internet? Um, no.

Gay-wise, I hate to say, as far as we have come, I think we've gone backwards in some ways in the last 20 years or so, though certainly in my adult lifetime fewer people I think faced the sorts of things they would have in earlier times before Stonewall, not that anyone should have to, then or now. I can only hope that the backward steps we've had are just normal obstacles people often face on the road to trying to achieve whatever it is.

 

[oxydolfan1]

Please define "militant leftist"....

Just want to establish which moral controls I'm being held responsible for eliminating this week...

IMHO the period was the epidemic until around 1986 was rough, then things brightened slowly, the mid-90's represented a point in which a catalyst for meaningful change, and this is by far, the worst period since Stonewall, in terms of storm clouds gathering and other such personal liberties vanishing.

 

[gyrafoam]

Since eccentricity has ALWAYS been socially acceptable in the deep south----being gay was not usually an issue----however as Kelly said sexual things were not discussed openly. Supposedly not in "polite society" either but I can remember mom's friends whispering things amongst each other with tiny little tee hee hee's going on.

Also, all those male soldiers who had been off fighting WWII and the Korean War for that matter (and later in Vietnam), had not necessarily been "living at the foot of the cross" while they had been away. There were often THOUSANDS of them alone on otherwise deserted islands, or on the fringes of scary and lonely battlefields.
It was the "GREAT SECRET" of the '50's.
I understand it---that was just the way it was.
I didn't need to hear the "dirt" about our war heros.

"Washertalk"---as for "the South", I remember well segregation.
Bathrooms and water fountains for the "colored", etc. Certain places they could not enter, etc.
Signs that said "no colored allowed".
AND there were also plenty of signs that said:
No Colored
NO Catholics
No Jews
No Dogs

My father used to make humor out of it by saying "what did the dogs ever do to anyone?
That was just the way it was.

I almost NEVER heard the "N" word---CERTAINLY not in polite society.
This was NOT the case when visiting family up north in the N.Y., N.J. area. where I constantly heard the "N" word much to my parents chagrin. The same thing happened when visiting family in Ohio. And the same thing happened when visiting family in Brockton and Franklin, Mass.
So, when I think back in time, I can't say I remember the northern folks being a bastion of purity in the days of segregation.

Anyway,the plain truth is, here in Atlanta I never saw blacks openly discriminated against in the fifties,as bad as the blacks now openly discriminate against caucaisians,gays and Jews.
So "go figya".

Our current administration in the Whitehouse has done little to help the situation by making a public policy of openly discriminating against a group of TAX PAYING AMERICAN CITIZENS---the gay citizens. So a message is being sent to America at large that even if you are a citizen of the U.S. you can be singled out for who and what you are and openly and legally discriminated against.
I'm glad to pass the torch off to the youth at this point. The battle ahead will be tough!

O.K. sorry for the disertation. My two shekels, and I bow out of this one!

 

[gansky1]

Sadly, politics and some claiming to be religious always need a societal scapegoat, or a group of people to rally the flock (sheep) around and utilize the very powerful tools of fear and hate. We've seen it over and over throughout history and, for now, it's the gay and lesbian population in this country. Small victories like the most recent one in New Jersey are overshadowed by the overwhelming majority of states that have ammended their constitutions and enacted laws which deny Americans their rights to choose their individual pursuit of happiness and liberty. It comes down to the fact that we, as free Americans, are all drinking from the same fountain, or we're not. It will be a long and arduous battle to overcome the discrimination and deep-seated hatred and fear, as we are struggling against a system that is well funded and organized. Conversely, the gay & lesbian population does not have much in the way of organization and unity, nor do (we) have a leader (e.g. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.) so it makes this struggle for acceptance and equality exponentially more difficult.

Having grown up in the 70's, I remember well being made fun of for my interest in washers & dryers, most vividly by my own family. I'm not sure if there was some hardening of spirit or resolve (probably both) that I continued to persue my appliance interest. I generally kept it to myself, being able to drive was a giant leap forward in the liberation of my curiosity - I could visit appliance stores, laundromats, etc. guilt-free and not have to explain or answer to anyone. Even more liberating was finding this group of friends and the finally having the ability to see and use machines that I only ever daydreamed about.

 

[bajaespuma]

Gratitude

I was lucky enough, in many ways, to have been raised in NYC. One huge stroke of luck was that I went to grade school in Greenwich village (one the corner of Hudson and Christopher!). This was the early sixties and most of the teachers were women but there were a few were young gay men (and some clerics). Everyone was closeted at that point, of course, but it was understood by at least parents and a few precocious young girls, what was what. I can't imagine a better and more nurturing environment in which to have been educated. While tolerance wasn't even a catch-word then, it was practiced diligently at St. Luke's and if a young gay boy had even a rat's ass chance at self-acceptance it would have begun there.

God bless my parents for having had the kindness and generosity to send me to St. Luke's School.

God bless all the clerics and teachers at St. Luke's School who led by word and deed rather than the ruler and the rod.

God bless Greenwich Village for providing a safe haven to the eccentrics.

 

[mixfinder]

Mitant Leftist

If you felt bile rise in your throat when you read those words, you may be a militant leftist.

It has been my experience that in order to effect lasting change, comprimise and allowing oneself to make reasonable choices, in what may feel against all reason, allows movement. It is uniquely King County or "Seattle" to assume the rest of the Uninted States is in aggreement with our thinking and perception. There are days I feel assaulted with overzealous environmental and governmental diatribe that does not allow discourse.
I had the luxury of growing of destitute, knowing discrimination and finding my way out with the vehicle of education and ambition. It was my joy to live border and coast to coast and learn the value of integration into the local flavor. I have worked as a laborer, owned my own business and lived off the milk of the world's largest corporations. In the middle of it all lies some fundamental principles of supply and demand and survival of the fittest.
I support the causes of feminism, integration, immigration, emvironmentalism, and global peace. It is the strident supporters who are harder to support. I prefer willingness to accept each other and their right to approach change from a different perspective, without being made to feel, completely wrong. I am not the enemy.
The Quakers have a means of reaching aggrement. In a group they speak, one at a time. No cross talk is allowed. At the end of speaking, the group says, "I hear you". Discourse continues until such a time there is aggreement, without rancor, arguement and wrestling for position.
Perhaps it is age, perhaps weariness, perhaps wisdom gained from looking at what is soon to be the end of this experience, I am so very weary of strife with those that are my comrades. The only person I can change is my own. The only thinking I can change is my own. My hope is to believe those around me see the Light in me, because I do genuinely care.
Kelly
Kelly

 

[gyrafoam]

Kelly------

Back in the 90's I was in Seattle for an International Airliner Show.
In reading the local newspaper over a period of about a week I read everyday of some community grappling with the problems of flooding caused by some over-industrious beaver damming up the stream. OMG every wringing handkercheif was out worrying about what to do to get that pesky beaver to move. In the meantime many homes and businesses continued to flood due to a re-routed stream. I think they finally hired a beaver-whisperer and it still did no good.

I kept thinking if they would pay me $300.00 for my time and expenses I'd go to a local pawn shop and buy a cheap shotgun and fix the problem. Honey puhhleeez.

There was also much talk about saving Spotted Owls although I never found out from what.

Sometime later, back here in Atlanta, I found myself behind a well know paper company's truck.
On the rear bumper was a bumper sticker that said: "When all the trees are gone you can wipe your a#* on a Spotted Owl".
I just fell out!

 

[dalangdon]

Kelly, you must not follow local politics if you think that Seattle "does not allow discourse". EVERYTHING on the local level is about "achieving consensus", and that's why nothing ever gets done. They call it "The Seattle Way", LOL.

But we are a city of firsts, both good and bad: First Women Mayor, first place to allow women to vote (although they rescinded that when the women started to clean up the vice) First place to ratify prohibition, first place in the US to play a Beattle's song on the radio, first World's Fair to break even...

On the topic of the thread, we are the first city of offer a counseling service geared specifically to GLBT people. That didn't happen until 1969, which should give the younger folks an idea of the isolation many gay people felt in the previous decades, when homosexuality was considered a mental illness, and cause for involuntary commitment in some cases. Men could also commit their wives. That happened to the mother or a friend of mine.

Employment rights of sexual minorities were affirmed in Seattle in 1973, and the City broadened its housing laws in 1975. That was held up by popular vote in 1978 when some militant conservatives tried to get them to repeal that by initiative. 2/3 of the City of Seattle rejected that.

The 70's was also the decade when Seattle finally started to break the protection racket within the police department that was extorting money out of gay bars so they could stay in business. The corrupt police were working with corrupt state liquor agents, so they held real power over the businesses they targeted, particularly given the obscure liquor code of the time, which said that women could not sit at bars without a man, and no one could be standing with a drink in their hand.

So, you can see that militant leftists have been of some use to all of us. People - including me - may look nostalgically at the clothes and manners and lifestyles (and especially appliances! )of the earlier decades - although memory does tend to soften things - but don't kid yourself that we haven't evolved. And it took a lot of kicking and screaming to get there. And sometimes it takes kicking and screaming just to stay where we are.

 

[oldwasherguy]

the 50s and 60s

I dont know about the rest of the world but at that time here in charleston we had no problems with racism, and no one knew if you were a homosexual if you did not tell,and if you did noone really cared or really wanted to know in the first place.As for the gov. telling people how to live their lives,we never needed that here because everyone who lived around you were like your family. We still have segregation here,but not gov.enforced, the people segregate themselves to be around those whom they feel most compfortable with,and thats just human nature. Don

 

[gyrafoam]

Hooray for kickers and screamers!!!!! Nevermind which political party.
The sign of a true blue American!!!
We need a gazillion more!!!

Imagine how much could be changed if mainstream Americans had the genitals to kick and scream again!

 

[washertalk]

I agree

But perhaps, we are TOO comfortable.
"if you keep the doggee fed, it will behave"

I think it is great, really great that the Real Estate Market is tanking(and I used to be in Real Estate). Today it has been announced that the real estate sales pace for last month was the slowest in 35 years. wow
Cool.
Jobs have been deported.
Even the Middle(of what there is left) and Middle-upper class is angry at deminished prospects for the future. he-he.
Global warming, repubs failing to acknowledge immigrants as the new residents they are and in turn trying to demonize them, the largest percentage of people in prison, massive cuts in social programs, declining college enrollments, repubs cheating small businesses out of funding(or diverting funds to large corps.), our MASSIVE trillion dollar trade deficit, and our countries declining status in the world, .... I can go on and on and on at the failures of our society.

Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy seeing our society in decline.
But I thoroughly enjoy seeing it all happen on republicans watch (house, senate, oval office,) and seeing them try to off load blame on anyone else using biased fox news type propaganda. he-he
I honestly believe Democratic leaders have let repubs take full control so we as a society could see them fail. awesome.

It has been said that sometimes to get REAL change in a society we need to have things go terribly wrong. Even if the coming election is fixed, repubs are going to pay because there is so much suspicion and hate. haha.
I'm voting, that is for sure.

In a way, the 1950s were kind of neat.
Wow, Sex without hiv threat. but this was before Studio 54? hmm.. still I have to admit, that is an "exciting" thought.
probly less air pollution, depended on where you lived, though some of those cars put out like 8 times the amount of carbon dioxide a grand marquis does today. no seat belts, airbags, catalic converters. and there was no EPA so smoke stack pollution must have been aweful. The Love canal in NY was just being built. OMG
generally fewer people. soso. again depending on where you lived.
The SanFernando Valley was near it's peak of desirability. Well I'd give it until the mid 60s.
Detroit peaked. so. blah, blah, It was more interesting in the fall. he-he.
Food was probably better, well at least had fewer hormones etc. but god, not very balanced. Did people even know what a mango was, or a salad?
Of course our legal system was a big NO. back then, discrimination, voting rights, employer rights, so on and so on.
Technology, sorry, where would we be without the Internet.
Mental health and health care ? Not so much.

So I can see that, yeh, there was some neat stuff.

I think it was probly desirable for some because It was the start of a large run up of a lifestyle that is now past it's prime in America. And the beginning always seems to be the best. The 50s started a lifestyle that was mainly refined over the next 40-50 years.
I kind of feel the same way about the late 70s, early 80s.
It was a fun time and introduced a lifestyle that is just starting to take off. Remember how solar and alternative energies were in their infancy then. now they are the next big thing, by necessity.
I've said before- the music, the movies, decor, clothing styles, appliance and car styles, etc. so progressive.
I remember my first computer in 1982, a Timex (like the watch) lol. I actually had 2 of them until they stopped making them. lol. that was great. ..
and, and....

omg , how much I typed. Well thanks for the infor. helpful

 

[tomturbomatic]

Don't take a gun to a beaver. They are incredible animals. Before the hunters and trappers from Europe started killing them wholesale, they were active during the day. They became nocturnal to avoid the men. If you have ever seen a young beaver reach its tiny forepaws up to you when it wants to be picked up and cuddled or helped and you hear the little noise they make when they are begging to be picked up, you won't want to shoot one. For their size they are incredibly heavy, like a leather sack of buckshot. They won't "go" except in water, so the novice fixes a nice tub of water, introduces the beaver and the first thing it does necessitates draining the tub and you cannot drain the tub with the kit in it because they don't want the water to run out. The Native Americans would present a beaver kit to a woman who had lost a baby so that she would have someone to love and nurture. They pick up on human ways so fast it is almost scary. A woman whose name escapes me has written several books about living with beavers. She had two living in her house with her. They noticed that she sat at the table to eat, so each of them pushed a chair up to the table and climbed into the chair and remained upright while they ate the food she brought to them. The female beaver fell onto the floor the first time she tried to climb into the chair so every time after that, after she pushed the chair to the table, she collected pillows and cushions from furniture in the living room and placed them on the floor around her chair so that if she fell, she would land on something soft. That little beaver I got to hold was found by a couple of men by the side of the road in a bad storm. It was alone and needed help because beavers are not solitary animals. Anyway, it raised its little arms to be lifted up and rode back home with the guys who called the wildlife rescue people. They brought the beaver to the home of a couple who were customers of John and Jeff. I had been telling John about these books I had been reading so when he had to make a service call, he asked if I would like to come along. Both the husband and wife had major health and mobility problems, but they did everything they could for the little ones entrusted to their care. I walked into that house, a perfect stranger, and over to the little plastic crib on a cart like they bring babies out of the hospital nursery when it is visiting time. I looked at the little beaver who stood up, lifted his paws and asked to be picked up. Well, you learn to be a bit cautious around wild animals, but the man there said it was OK, that he wanted to be picked up. While I was getting used to holding so small and heavy an animal, he brought a bottle and I fed the little guy. He was probably in the process of being weaned because about half the milk was swallowed and the other half dripped onto the towel. That was one of the best experiences I have ever had. Not too long after that, I asked John about the couple and learned that both the husband and wife had died, but I am sure that the animal spirits knew about them and their work and surrounded them at the gates to vouch for how kind and loving they were to little, helpless, often sick or injured and always traumatized and frightened creatures who were brought to them and nursed to the stage where they could be returned to the outdoors.

 

[dalangdon]

One thing that should be said about the 50's-70's was that it was the peak of union membership in the United States, which led to a higher standard of living than had been previously known in this country. Companies paid a decent wage because of collective bargaining, or because they were afraid of collective bargaining - either way, it was good for the people who work for a living. College tuition was still affordable - in California it was practially free - and the society was upwardly mobile. Credit was much rarer, and housing more affordable.

We still made things in this country, which meant more good paying jobs of for people of every skillset, and US corporations were still beholden to US tax laws. A more even distribution of wealth made for a more equitable nation.

So it wasn't all that bad after all, at least in that respect ;-)

 

[mixfinder]

I Give

Dear Steve,
I think we get each other. Thank you for being my age and my approach.
Please send me the shotgun. I'll just shoot myself and make room for someone elighted and worthy of this thread.
Kelly

Dear Dan,
Thank you for so perfectly illustrating the source of my social weariness.
Kelly

 

[gyrafoam]

Now Kelly-------

One should never think about shooting one's self when you can always shoot something else!

You like to speak your mind just like I do.
That is the beauty of America.
Thanks to the current administration, we no longer have the freedoms the "founding fathers" originally intended, but we sure do have a great forum here!

Hope you are doing well and are comfortable in your new home.

Best wishes!

 

[mixfinder]

Good Old Boys

Mercy, Steve! I think we have a club of two!
Kelly

 

[oldwasherguy]

Bush bashers

You may put George Bush down but at least hes got the balls to do something about those evil terrorists that hit us on 9-11. What did Clinton do? Oh thats right he was with Monica!He He. Don

 

[partscounterman]

No need to take sides...

because Republican or Democrat, they are ALL crooks!

Don't sit and wax poetic about how great it was with Clinton in office-he caved in like wet cardboard on the gays in the military thing.

Why bother voting when those Diebold crooks are gonna change your vote with a click of the mouse?

Disenfranchised? Yeah, that's me! It's all enough to make you move to a small island in the middle of the pacific. (Oh, that right. I already did that.) Local politics in this banana republic; oops I mean Maui County is all the drama I can handle!

 

[oxydolfan1]

What did Bush do about 9/11?

He invaded an unarmed sovereign nation that had nothing to do with 9/11, and killed almost 3,000 of our troops and 655,000 Iraqis. Yeah, that was effective.

He CREATED more terrorists. He took a nation that was led by an admittedly brutal, but secular, anti-fundamentalist leader, and replaced it with a puppet regime....that just happen to be the same sort of fundamentalist mullahs that espouse the "terrorists'" cause.

Now Israel has hundreds of thousands of angry, disaffected Iraqis in countries directly adjacent to its borders. I'm sure the citizenry must be very grateful for this!

I don't see any "Islamofascists" running around my streets-and I live in the biggest city in the world. Funny, but I think we trashed Clinton's BUDGET SURPLUS to give Bush's cronies a big bump up in society, prestige, and power...and for what?

Imaginary terrorists?

Who WAS behind 9/11 anyway?

Sixteen losers with boxcutters who couldn't piss into a toilet straight hit two buildings with big planes at the first shot?

And where was that wreckage at Shanksville? I'm not saying I know....I'd just like to see some wreckage.

The patience of real Americans is wearing thin.

I can't speak for Bush's lackeys and loyalists.

 

[washertalk]

Those who pump their ego over Monica and President Clinton?

Is that the best that repubs can do? Clinton could have had sex with anyone he wanted for all I care. I would have had sex with him if he wanted as long as he did as good a job as he did. He did an excellent job. I have yet to hear any material reasons why people would dislike him.
Anyone?

President Clinton has really been making the rounds recently, people do love him.

Compare this to the NUMEROUS impeachable offenses that jr and company has committed.

The validity of 9/11 is highly questionable, to say the least. It was certainly preventable. The military intelligences was there but as the record shows, the administration chose NOT to act on the info. ? And did you know that Building Seven Collapse contained alot of the files of information about the Enron scandal and Silverado and other cases involving jr. Larry Silverstein who had recently purchased the lease on the World Trade Center received a substantial insurance payout for their collapse. hmm?

The only followers repubs have, beside the obvious upper 1% who have received Billions of dollars in one way or another as a result of policies in the last 6 years,
are the true fools- white men who feel disenfranchised and some how relate with jr.s apparent 'underachiever' loser status. Those whos ego has not evolved to reality and perhaps is still back,... what in the 1940s. Concepts like, Women are equal, White people are not supreme, Gay people are equal and non-threatening are difficult for people like this to accept. In that light, it is good to have jr. screwing up the way it has. Hopefully a lesson is being learned by the outdated.

I look at gb jr. as a TOTAL embarassment for our country. As a 39yo. white AMerican, who has lived my whole life in the U.S. I would NEVER identify with trash like that.

As I have said before I have the backbone to be Progressive and Proud of it. I expect better. Much Better.

 

[oxydolfan1]

A lot of it is borne out of self-hate, internalized homophobia, and an absolute hate of anything that sounds like it might be intellectual, well-informed, or snobbish.

As a result, the authoritarian, fascist pigs that run our government are married to the mob.

They are not "conservatives". Conservatism as a political philosophy is dead, just as dead as communism.

This is corporatism. This is what happens when the interests of the corporations are merged with the interests of the government, against the people.

ONE liberal radio network starts up two years ago, and these fascists had to infiltrate it, bankrupt it, and stifle it.

If you want to be vastly entertained, check out the latest figures on what corporate CEO's earn, versus we good old-fashioned grunts did recently. Then compare them from 2001. Then go back to 1996. Then 1991. Then 1986. And 1981.

Do not believe fools who speak of the "strong economy". It is strong-for a very select few, at the top of the economic ladder. Do not pay attention to the stock market closing-all this is simply an indicator of the efficiency of the American worker! What has this to do with anything you didn't know? Did you sit at your desk all day, staring at the ceiling doing nothing?

No-you sat at your desk, WORKING, while you worried about your rent going up, your property values coming down, the paper money in your pocket soon to become worthless, direct highways from Mexico to Canada that you can't even USE being built with your tax money, your nieces and nephews in classrooms crammed in with 45 other kids.

Oh, but the neocons love the fetus, all right.

But they sure do hate the kids that come afterwards.

You watched your expensive fresh spinach and Foxy lettuce thrown straight into the trashcan because you can't even trust what's left of the agriculture authorities and USDA to do their jobs.

You wondered, what good is this FABULOUS puny income-tax cut, when they RAISE my property taxes two- and three-fold?

You may have even asked yourself, if they have the technology to eliminate my elderly mother's Alzheimer's disease and suffering, and refuse to use it, what makes me think they would have bothered to find a cure for HIV/AIDS that might have saved my partner's life when they said they DIDN'T have the technology or ability?

If you work hard, play by the "rules", do right by you and your own, and you look around, and somebody's telling YOU you and not the geniuses that are "running" things need to take responsibility, did it ever once occur to you that YOU'RE the one who's playing the fool, not even them?

Get a grip, folks. Wake up and smell the coffee.

We can do a LOT better than this.