Berkeley First US City to Ban Natural Gas in New Buildings

[foraloysius]

Theory is that a house with underfloor heating shouldn't be cleaner per se but there is less dust moving around. Dust lying still in a corner is not causing allergies, but when it moves around, it will.

I have no idea how well underfloor cooling works, so far I know noone who has it. It was first put in in more expensive apartment buildings using a geothermical form of heatpump. But nowadays you see it more and more appear in ads for the middle market segment. The temperature difference is likely not very big, but don't know any details of these systems.

 

[retro-man]

Ok dust blowing through the air with hot/cold air systems. In theory maybe a little more dust but what is removed I am sure more than makes up for it. Also I have forced air in both homes and I do not notice dust or clumps of dust blowing around. I vacuum regularly so that keeps it down to a minimum. How dirty are these houses that dust gets blown around. It is not like a leaf blower is pointed at the floor blowing dust around. The air is strong coming out of my vents but it is not making a tornado in my house. lol One house the vents are in the ceilings and the other they are located near the ceilings but on the wall. My last house had forced hot water and guess what, there was dust in that house also.

Jon

 

[foraloysius]

Seems like your mind is already made up in this matter.

 

[ea56]

Re: Reply#61

You said a mouthful Louis.

It also makes it seem like I don’t know shi*t from shinola. NOT what you posted Louis, but all the closed minded posts about this topic.

I’ve lived off and on all my life in home with both forced air heat and electric baseboard heat, both conventional and hydronic of all kinds, and for the last 25 years with hydronic electric baseboard heat, all the while having severe allergies, that improved when we moved here, and left a home with forced air heating.

I know for an empirical fact that forced air heat creates more dust in the home. And this has nothing to do with a lack of good housekeeping practices. I have always vacuumed the carpet at least 2 or 3 times weekly, and you won’t find dirt or dust in any of our corners.

So my mind is made up too, from actual practical experience, and this is my last word on the subject. Some people just think they know everything.

BTW, California has ALL kinds of climates, its not all sunshine, oranges and beaches. We have snow and mountains, and where I live, while it may not reach the arctic lows of the East Coast and the Mid West, we still get very cold weather in the winter months, and our homes aren’t built and insulated for severe cold, like many of those in the colder areas of the country, so we need adequate home heating systems too. And our hydronic electric baseboard heaters do keep us warm, with quiet, dust free heat.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 7/27/2019-12:50]

 

[48bencix]

Comprehensive article about Berkeley Natural Gas Ban

The Guardian has a pretty interesting article about the Berkeley Ban.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/23/berkeley-natural-gas-ban-environment

 

[ea56]

Re” Reply#63

Thanks Martin for posting this excellent, thoughtful and comprehensive article about the reasoning behind the Berkeley city government decision to begin phasing out natural gas. I hope others will read this article too.

Eddie

 

[sudsmaster]

Yes, the Guardian article brings up an interesting side effect of communities going all electric: affordability. As gas rate payers dwindle, the remaining consumers will have to support an infrastructure that was developed for higher volumes. This may mean increased rates for the remaining gas consumers, who likely would be lower income people who cannot afford to replace all their gas appliances with electric versions.

Personally I don't think this is a real concern in my lifetime: it will take decades for Berkeley to go all electric, and more decades for the rest of the state, if at all. I'll probably be gone by then ;-)

 

[twintubdexter]

<span style="font-size: 14pt; color: #008000;">"I will probably be gone by then..." With me I know I will be gone long before then. I guess I don't get high marks for being an environmentalist. I feel guilty, but not like I had a coal furnace or one that burns heating oil. I'm sure there are many people that still use oil for heating and do so as efficiently as possible.</span>

 

<span style="font-size: 14pt; color: #008000;">The late, wonderful Charlotte Rae...Sylvia Schnauzer if you're as old as me.</span>

 

[xraytech]

I think it’s a great decision,
One thing that no one ever thinks of is the cost of obtaining natural gas,

I’m located right in the middle of the whole Marcellus Shale fracking zone.
If you have not done so, consider reading the Pulitzer Prize running book, “Amity and Prosperity “

The book was written about the price that is being paid by those folks here in Appalachia all at the cost of big business and the fracking for more natural gas.

Just a side note, I know most of the folks in this book.

 

[tomturbomatic]

13 CA Cities & One County Ban Gas Hookups to New Dwellings

Cities Begin Banning Gas Hookups In New Homes
November 11, 2019 Climate Change, News

USA Today reports:
Fix global warming or cook dinner on a gas stove? That’s the choice for people in 13 cities and one county in California that have enacted new zoning codes encouraging or requiring all-electric new construction. The codes, most of them passed since June, are meant to keep builders from running natural gas lines to new homes and apartments, with an eye toward creating fewer legacy gas hookups as the nation shifts to carbon-neutral energy sources.
For proponents, it’s a change that must be made to fight climate change. For natural gas companies, it’s a threat to their existence. And for some cooks who love to prepare food with flame, it’s an unthinkable loss. Natural gas is a fossil fuel, mostly methane, and produces 33% of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions from electricity generation, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Carbon dioxide is the primary greenhouse gas causing climate change.

https://www.joemygod.com/2019/11/cities-begin-banning-gas-hookups-in-new-homes/

 

[kate1]

So let’s replace clean burning, low emission, efficient household gas appliances and replace them with all electric appliances pulling power from coal fired power plants. That’ll fix climate change.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Why are you stuck with fossil fuels? Haven't you heard of wind, tidal, solar and geothermal generation? Oh, that's right, Idaho is a big coal producer so we have to be wed to an energy source first used in the US in the 1300s by the Hopi Indians.

 

[ea56]

PG&E uses little if any coal to generate electricity, and the little that is being used is being phased out.

The future is in solar, wind, geothermal and hydro power. Some are proponents of nuclear generated power, I’m not one of them. In a state that experiences earthquakes, nuclear power, IMHO is a recipe for disaster.

Eddie

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/loca.../bill-inserts/2017/november/power-content.pdf

 

[rp2813]

San Jose, with a population of over 1M is in the process of prohibiting gas connections to new construction.   In light of the recent wildfires, it seems that gas is safer than electricity (negligent maintenance on the San Bruno pipeline notwithstanding) and since it's clean-burning, it is also more environmentally responsible.

 

I suppose for those who prefer gas stove tops to electric, it means converting the fittings to propane and having a big, unsightly tank placed on your property as if you live way out in the sticks somewhere.

 

Eddie, isn't Diablo Canyon the only nuke powered plant in PG&E's system?  IIRC, they are already in the early stages of shutting it down, but I know that's a long process.  Renewable resources aren't the future, they're the now, and even corrupt PG&E has been pursuing and including them for quite a while.

 

[ea56]

Ralph,

Put an propane tank on your property now in Calif. and I’ll bet the rent that you won’t be able to get fire insurance. People that live in an area with any kind of vegetation are having their fire insurance cancelled or the premiums raised so high that they can’t afford to renew.

Our HOA has a small pool with a solar heater, and there are tall trees all around it, so consequently the solar panels get little sunlight. About 5 yrs. ago one of my fellow board members wanted us to retrofit the pool with a propane heater as we have no natural gas service on the property. When we inquired with the insurance agent about the possible repercussions we were advised this was a no can do, the insurance would be cancelled.

And I believe you are correct about the Diablo Canyon nuke plant being shut down. I’m so glad that they weren’t successful years ago in getting approval for a nuclear power plant on Bodega Head, its only about 20 miles from us. I have no desire to relive Fukushima here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant
Eddie