scott55405
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Wow, I'm glad I posted that article. I have learned more and thought of things I never even thought of, by reading the replies!
Interesting article about washer water usage in CA
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Grey water would be ok for stuff like flushing toilets, but not so good for irrigation. Why? Most detergents are high in sodium, and sodium gradually renders soils "sodic", unhealthy for many plants, and can turn clays into a cement-like substance. Add to that the boron, chlorine, etc in grey water and it's just not so good for growing plants.
I had my well water analyzed and it's not potable (too high in nitrates, among other things) but it seems to work just fine for irrigation. It is hard water (creates a nice precipitate when mixed with washing soda) but the plants seem to like that. It sucks for washing cars or filling fish ponds, though.
The well must be deep, or the water table high, because I've never had it go dry, even after extended use. Free water, just for the cost of pumping it. There's a big reservoir in the hills above town, so I figure it's replenishing the aquifer continuously.
I had my well water analyzed and it's not potable (too high in nitrates, among other things) but it seems to work just fine for irrigation. It is hard water (creates a nice precipitate when mixed with washing soda) but the plants seem to like that. It sucks for washing cars or filling fish ponds, though.
The well must be deep, or the water table high, because I've never had it go dry, even after extended use. Free water, just for the cost of pumping it. There's a big reservoir in the hills above town, so I figure it's replenishing the aquifer continuously.
Palm Springs
I think the water usage in Palm Springs has got to be very high for all of the golf courses and other lush landscaping, but I read somewhere that the underground acquifers in that area can support another 600 years of water use--by the current population.
An article in the paper today described the rationing plans of various water agencies in California. Where I live, there are no plans to ration since 40% of the water supply comes from groundwater recharging systems. Water is channeled from reservoirs into percolation ponds that recharge the porous underground storage zones.
Not all areas have this option, but there are ways to get around dry years without having to ration.
When we had a bad drought in 1976 and 1977 I was living in LA at the time and was angered by the blatant lack of conservation and disbelief by a good percentage of the general population that a drought situation even existed. Clearly, when you live in an area that doesn't get enough rain to sustain its own population, it's tough to relate to the lack of rain elsewhere having a direct correlation to the amount of water you should be using. But I think the people of LA have now come to realize that they need to be more responsible.
I think the water usage in Palm Springs has got to be very high for all of the golf courses and other lush landscaping, but I read somewhere that the underground acquifers in that area can support another 600 years of water use--by the current population.
An article in the paper today described the rationing plans of various water agencies in California. Where I live, there are no plans to ration since 40% of the water supply comes from groundwater recharging systems. Water is channeled from reservoirs into percolation ponds that recharge the porous underground storage zones.
Not all areas have this option, but there are ways to get around dry years without having to ration.
When we had a bad drought in 1976 and 1977 I was living in LA at the time and was angered by the blatant lack of conservation and disbelief by a good percentage of the general population that a drought situation even existed. Clearly, when you live in an area that doesn't get enough rain to sustain its own population, it's tough to relate to the lack of rain elsewhere having a direct correlation to the amount of water you should be using. But I think the people of LA have now come to realize that they need to be more responsible.
Florida's
Problem is an economy based on Real Estate development. Water is being drawn up at a huge rate per head of population.
Florida needs more manufacturing not more house construction.
It is also impacting housing values.
Golf courses are a huge user of water and chemicals. I am guilty there since I love to golf. But originally in Scotland golf courses were not manicured gardens they were pretty much wild heaths. So we should get back to that kind of thinking for our lawns and courses.
I have friends in N.M. who took out their grass lawn and put in cactus and other native plants which cut way down on their watering use.
California (along with the rest of the country) needs Nulcear Fusion to desalinate water or washing machines that you just throw in your clothes and they bounce really high in a supersonic jetstream of air to blow them clean. Or like Robert has predicted for 2010 a washer that you put your clothes into and then open 2 packets of Handi Wipes and throw them in and viola "dry" cleaning through scrubba tumbling!!
But we all do need to address how we handle the Environment because that is the only thing that sustains us. No matter how much faith we have in our technology. And for a culture without the Hyperspatial Jump its a very very long way to the next planet with water and a stable climate thats for dang sure.
Problem is an economy based on Real Estate development. Water is being drawn up at a huge rate per head of population.
Florida needs more manufacturing not more house construction.
It is also impacting housing values.
Golf courses are a huge user of water and chemicals. I am guilty there since I love to golf. But originally in Scotland golf courses were not manicured gardens they were pretty much wild heaths. So we should get back to that kind of thinking for our lawns and courses.
I have friends in N.M. who took out their grass lawn and put in cactus and other native plants which cut way down on their watering use.
California (along with the rest of the country) needs Nulcear Fusion to desalinate water or washing machines that you just throw in your clothes and they bounce really high in a supersonic jetstream of air to blow them clean. Or like Robert has predicted for 2010 a washer that you put your clothes into and then open 2 packets of Handi Wipes and throw them in and viola "dry" cleaning through scrubba tumbling!!
But we all do need to address how we handle the Environment because that is the only thing that sustains us. No matter how much faith we have in our technology. And for a culture without the Hyperspatial Jump its a very very long way to the next planet with water and a stable climate thats for dang sure.
more people
The main reason we need to conserve water and other resources here in California is that every year we have 500,000 more people living here.
Yes that is an addition of one half of a million people every year.
And basically this state is a desert. The water systems that were designed decades ago, and they were very well designed for the time, were designed for a much smaller population. If we get the rainfall that we got this year, for the next several years, a drought will be declared.
By the way, I love my top loading machines and long showers. And I hate more laws. Until about a year ago, I had no water meter. I could use any amount I wanted. But that is changing here. With the meter I will pay less in the winter and much more in the summer, and, of course, more just because the meter must be read.
Martin
The main reason we need to conserve water and other resources here in California is that every year we have 500,000 more people living here.
Yes that is an addition of one half of a million people every year.
And basically this state is a desert. The water systems that were designed decades ago, and they were very well designed for the time, were designed for a much smaller population. If we get the rainfall that we got this year, for the next several years, a drought will be declared.
By the way, I love my top loading machines and long showers. And I hate more laws. Until about a year ago, I had no water meter. I could use any amount I wanted. But that is changing here. With the meter I will pay less in the winter and much more in the summer, and, of course, more just because the meter must be read.
Martin
danemodsandy
Well-known member
tolivac:
"I am on the side of not having State or Fed govts dictating and regulating what types of appliances or other equipment you can buy-freedom of choice rules!Let the Market decide."
The marketplace is probably the poorest possible means of curtailing inefficiency. People are devoted to their comforts, not any sort of "greater good". Most people can't even SEE the greater good; so long as clean, fresh water runs out of the tap, there cannot possibly be a water problem, so far as they're concerned. If you want to see a grisly example of how poorly marketplace forces control greed, you have only to look on our roads, which are currently ruled by gas-guzzling, behemoth SUVs- mainly occupied by a driver and nobody else. Everyone KNOWS that oil supplies are tight. Everyone KNOWS that SUV prices, insurance prices, and gas prices are high for such vehicles. Everyone KNOWS that this is an exceedingly wasteful way to live. But- they go out and buy another SUV anyway- so long as they've got leather, power everything, and their favourite tunes on the CD or iPod player, God's in His heaven, all's right with the world. Hell, some lower-income people will sign their lives away at a buy-here pay-here used car lot to procure such a vehicle, in spite of their real inability to afford one. If marketplace forces actually effected change where it was needed, people would be doing anything they could to get hold of a Civic or Prius, not Navigators and Escalades.
It takes leaders who are not afraid to lead to effect real change- leaders who might actually put the greater good ahead of the next election. Such individuals are rare, and we are not going to find many of them until we overhaul Washington from top to bottom. Term limits and outlawing lobbying- flatly, finally, and forever- would be two very good places to start. We are headed into times that will be very unforgiving of our present-day venality, and our current system rewards venality like no other on this planet.
Sorry to climb on my soapbox like this, but we have a lot of selfish, stupid people in this world, and they have to be curbed if this planet is going to survive.
"I am on the side of not having State or Fed govts dictating and regulating what types of appliances or other equipment you can buy-freedom of choice rules!Let the Market decide."
The marketplace is probably the poorest possible means of curtailing inefficiency. People are devoted to their comforts, not any sort of "greater good". Most people can't even SEE the greater good; so long as clean, fresh water runs out of the tap, there cannot possibly be a water problem, so far as they're concerned. If you want to see a grisly example of how poorly marketplace forces control greed, you have only to look on our roads, which are currently ruled by gas-guzzling, behemoth SUVs- mainly occupied by a driver and nobody else. Everyone KNOWS that oil supplies are tight. Everyone KNOWS that SUV prices, insurance prices, and gas prices are high for such vehicles. Everyone KNOWS that this is an exceedingly wasteful way to live. But- they go out and buy another SUV anyway- so long as they've got leather, power everything, and their favourite tunes on the CD or iPod player, God's in His heaven, all's right with the world. Hell, some lower-income people will sign their lives away at a buy-here pay-here used car lot to procure such a vehicle, in spite of their real inability to afford one. If marketplace forces actually effected change where it was needed, people would be doing anything they could to get hold of a Civic or Prius, not Navigators and Escalades.
It takes leaders who are not afraid to lead to effect real change- leaders who might actually put the greater good ahead of the next election. Such individuals are rare, and we are not going to find many of them until we overhaul Washington from top to bottom. Term limits and outlawing lobbying- flatly, finally, and forever- would be two very good places to start. We are headed into times that will be very unforgiving of our present-day venality, and our current system rewards venality like no other on this planet.
Sorry to climb on my soapbox like this, but we have a lot of selfish, stupid people in this world, and they have to be curbed if this planet is going to survive.
We're starting to see the use of a lot of "grey water" systems in Ireland in commercial buildings. These typically take the water off the roof (rainwater) and fill it into storage tanks. This is then roughly filtered to remove sedement etc and used to flush the toilets!
Apparently the majority of the water used in most office buildings goes directly down the sewer. So, it makes sense not to use treated drinking water to flush toilets!
However, not to be too high and mighty about it. Ireland's water usage is generally a European disgrace
We've no metering of water for domestic users, so homes can use as much as they like and it's funded from income tax rather than as a pay-per-liter utility. So, there's little/no incentive to actually cut back on water usage.
That being said, other than in the Greater Dublin Area, there is generally no particular shortage of water supply. Dublin (and to some extent Cork) due to higher population concentrations can sometimes manage to suck their resevoir systems dry during periods of dry weather. It's similar in the UK, despite the high average rain fall, we tend not to have the systems in place to store enough water to cope with unusual amounts of dry weather so you'll start to see panics in summer with hose pipe bans etc.
Apparently the majority of the water used in most office buildings goes directly down the sewer. So, it makes sense not to use treated drinking water to flush toilets!
However, not to be too high and mighty about it. Ireland's water usage is generally a European disgrace
We've no metering of water for domestic users, so homes can use as much as they like and it's funded from income tax rather than as a pay-per-liter utility. So, there's little/no incentive to actually cut back on water usage.That being said, other than in the Greater Dublin Area, there is generally no particular shortage of water supply. Dublin (and to some extent Cork) due to higher population concentrations can sometimes manage to suck their resevoir systems dry during periods of dry weather. It's similar in the UK, despite the high average rain fall, we tend not to have the systems in place to store enough water to cope with unusual amounts of dry weather so you'll start to see panics in summer with hose pipe bans etc.
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