Best Buy Pulls Analog Televison From Shelves

[volvoguy87]

AM/FM anyone?

A similar shift happened a few years back with radio. FM was invented in 1933, but it did not become widely available until starting in the 1950s. FM did not fully replace AM until the 1980s (popular music). In my area AM is still used for talk, and foreign language programming. I don't know who said it, but someone once phrased the shift as follows:
Most people didn't feel a strong need to change to the superior FM because, at the time, there were millions of AM sets is use by millions of people who were generally satisfied with the situation.
My biggest problem with digital tuners in devices I have owned or played with, thus far, is that they are so slow to tune and it adds yet another remote control to my collection. I think I have enough remotes to build a model of stonehenge! I have a 2005 27" Sony WEGA flat CRT that is just great. The tuner is fast, the picture, while not as sharp as HD, is still quite good, especially to my less-than-perfect eyes. I am satisfied with Analog TV, and I watch very little of it, on only a few channels I like. Why am I being forced to change? I could understand killing analog TV if it was a bandwidth that had already been abandond by most of the population, much like analog cellular telephone technology (except in the case of my 2002 Saab's Onstar system, but that is another story from GM Hell). Basically, I'm pissed because a format that is in use by so many people is being taken away and it is going to cost me money, time, and inconvenience.
Although analog signals will no longer be broadcast over the air, what about the cable companies? Can I still watch my analog TV without a tuner box? It has been my experience that both Cox, and especially Comcast, will do their best to screw the average consumer out of as much money as possibe for the worst service possible, with the worst customer service imaginable. A 75-year-old woman here in Manassas recently attacked the local Comcast office with a hammer, and smashed up some office equipment and scared the clearks. I know how she feels, she reached that point out of sheer frustration at Comcast's treatment of her. Basicaly, I wouldn't trust the cable companies with my garbage, much less my in-home entertainment, if they are my last source for analog TV, what am I to do?
I would love to see a digital tuner box that would take the incoming signals, allow the user to choose which channels they wanted to watch, and then "broadcast" all of them, at the same time, out of a coaxial jack in the analog signals so that the TV connected via a coaxial cable would be able to use its analog tuner as if it were prior to Feb. 2009.

I'm sorry about my little rant, but I am just upset because I am perfectly satisfied with my TV just the way it is and I don't want to change, and I think that a significant percentage of the population is in a similar situation. I'm really not this worked-up all the time. I promise I'm really a nice person, just don't fix what ain't broke!

Sigh, I feel better now,
Dave

 

[sudsmaster]

I dunno. I just put the VHS tape in the tape slot, and the blank DVD-R in the DVD tray, press "copy" on the machine and it does all the rest.

The only problem so far is that a custom tape I made of a car restoration has some edits in it. The tape machine I used inserted index marks at those points (or I told it to, I forget now, it was about 10 years ago). Anyway, the DVD recorder insists upon turning these index marks into "chapters", which in turn ruin the flow of the DVD when it's played back (or at least before it's finalized). Either I'll have to try it again, with finalization, or use a second external VHS VCR to input the source material without index marks.

 

[tolivac]

Analog TV transmitters-other station equipment

After Feb 2009-when its "Plates off" for analog TV what happens to all of that analog station equipment?will there be enough museam space to hold it all-will there be working displays for these-I have repaired and worked on a lot of this sort of gear.Esp RCA analog TV transmitters.right now Harris would be glad to sell your station new digital ASTC transmitters and other digital gear from cameras to VTRs.The last I looked the price on a new digital VTR or digital storage systems was almost 2 mil!Makes me think of the transition from monochrome TV to color in the 50's to 60's.
I don't use cable TV(isn't cable obselete anyway?-why string all those customers together when you can go wireless!)I also don't use sat TV.I use my DVD machines.and sorry VHS fans I got rid of most of my VHS tapes a few years ago-I found they were failing on me more so than DVDs.I did keep my Laserdiscs.-and two laserdisc players.The only VHS tapes I have are older "video owners" manuals for kirby and other vacuums.also some sales training videos-these are now going to DVD.And oh yes somewhere I have a few manuals on those old RCA analog TV transmitters.and in terms of bandwidth the analog and digital are the same-in fact the new digital ASTC standards were designed around fitting into an analog 4.5Mhz bandwidth.The low band VHF channels are going-the FCC wants to sell them to other services-I supposes whomever bids the highest on them.UHF and hi band VHF will go to the new ASTC digital broadcasts.

 

[panthera]

Rich,

I like that approach. Since I am only digitalizing my own stuff here, don't need a TBC looped in.
But will need one, or something similar if I am going to implement that solution for the several thousand VCR tapes my folks have.
Any suggestions?

 

[sudsmaster]

Volvoguy,

Well, I can do almost what you want to do. The Panasonic DVD/VHS recorder will output an analog signal. However, it only ouputs the signal equivalent to the station you tune it to. It was my intention to try to inject that signal back onto the coax coming from the roof antenna, so that I could just tune to ch 3 on any NTSC tv in the house and get the digital channel. But... I found out I'd have to run a second coax cabling system to carry that ch3 output... and right now I don't feel quite like crawling under the house to run all that ooax - plus the extra switch boxes I'd need at each tv. So I'm still waiting for cheap ATSC tuners - like the 30 euro ones that Panthera talked about - make their appearance in North America. Hopefully they will come with little remote controls as well.

As for AM/FM. It's my understanding that analog radio is on its way out as well - which will make life very difficult for those of us with classic analog radios, both in our homes and in our automobiles. I suppose somebody will make a digital radio tuner, that will output at short range an FM (or AM) signal that the radio could pick up. But it just won't be the same.

 

[tolivac]

The digital transsition for radio isn't mandatory like it is for terristrial analog television.I know of a few radio stations that have installed digital IBOC FM transmitters and IBOC exciters for their AM transmitters.fortunately analog radio should still be with us for awhile.At the SW broadcast facility where I work we are preparing one of the transmitters for DRM broadcasts.As the digital transition takes place in radio it does introduce some technical problems for boradcasters.for AM-both the IBOC signal injection levels are critical-too high it causes noise for analog listners-and interference to other stations-sometimes hundreds of miles away.If the analog injection is too great-it punches "holes" in the digital IBOC program.For FM broadcasters they have to install a separate IBOC digital transmitter and diplexer to go with the analog one.Radio Shack and Best Buy both now sell "HD radio" receivers so you can receive and listen to IBOC digital AM and FM broadcasts.some new cars have radios in them to receive IBOC AM and FM broadcasts-remember to use these its free!You just have to have the IBOC compatable receiver and --you still have to put up with commercials and blabbing DJ's.

 

[volvoguy87]

Analog radio.

I also have about 30 radios, ranging from the 1930s to the 1960s, all of which have wonderful, glorius, TUBES! I love the sound quality, especially from some of my older sets, and the cabinet/case designs just look so spiffy, I have no idea why the styles changed...
Analog radio is fine because I can re-broadcast in my house and recieve anything I want. I need to have a friend of mine build me a small tube AM transmitter so I can use my computer or ipod as a jukebox (I know it's no Seeburg) and recieve music on my vintage radios throughout the house. Hearing the newest songs coming out of my '37 Philco cathedral out to case a few double-takes!
To be specific with regard to digital TV tuners: I want a digital TV tuner box that can "broadcast" all the channels I want at the same time out of a coax jack so I can hook it up to the cable network in my house (seperate from the incoming line) and then use the analog tuners in my TVs as if nothing had happened, and be able to watch different channels on different TVs at the same time. Also, I don't want to have a digital tuner at each TV because that just means another remote that I don't want to mess with.

Dave

 

[panthera]

Dave,

When I was head of the owner's association back in 2000, we went digital(sat).
It cost a small fortune, but the only way to get the nasty old biddies to go along was to promise them that the signal would also be available on their ancient, creaky old analogue tuners...exactly on the same channels they had always been.
The converters to do it were something like 500DM a piece...but hey, it worked.
I understand your frustration with r/c's and all the change...I have something like 11 remote controls lying around and that does NOT include the tuner, 'cause I almost never watch TV. But the cost of converting every digital channel to analogue...oje.
Why not approach the problem from the other direction...live with one digital converter which then inputs its signal into an audio-video transmitter (they aren't expensive) and run that throughout the house. The better ones have an extra infra-red reciever at each box which can power that dratted digital converter.
Just a thought.
Oh - while it is true that digital either "works" or not, I have found that it is much less temperamental and demanding than analogue was. I can use a room antenna to receive all my digital channels whereas it used to take a damned power array on the roof to get the analogues in more or less adequately.

 

[MrX]

Similar situation in Europe

There's a similar situation in Europe, although, I think we will end up with an equally stupid PAL vs NTSC type divide.

The US has gone one way and Europe has gone another, once again! The standard in Europe is DVB-T (Digital Video Broadcast - Terrestrial) (Cable is DVB-C, Satellite DVB-S, Mobile DVB-H (Handheld). There's an EU terrestrial switch off deadline. The year escapes me, but different countries are working to slightly different schedules some are ready to switch off by 2008/9, others are waiting until the EU last min date. Most mid to high end TVs now come with DVB-T tuners built in so, it's pretty easy to pick up the free services. The problem is that some countries have opted to use DVB-T with MPEG4 rather than MPEG2 for more channels and HDTV etc, not every TV can use that. So, they'll still require set top boxes to receive signals in many cases. E.g. my Sony TV can tune to all standard definition digital services with its internal tuner, but if I want HDTV I need a box connected via a HDMI connector into the back of it... (for cable, satellite, or terrestrial services). But, it can receive digital TV and has a full EPG (Electronic Programme Guide) etc etc and can do all that out of the box without any extra equipment.

However, it's really nothing to be getting too fussed about, a typical DVB-T set top box is very small (size of a paperback novel) and cheap. They're also extremely easy to setup. I imagine the US ATSC boxes are quite likely to be the same idea only difference is you'll have more cables as you don't have SCART connectors i.e. you'll have several phono plugs to connect for RGB/Composite and sound..

i.e. you connect one end to the existing TV antenna and plug a SCART connector into the back of your TV and that's it.

Anyone can do it really.

I can see it getting to the stage that there'll be a demand to provide subsidised / free decoders to the the absolute last users of analogue TV though i.e. you'll have a few old grannies holding out till the bitter end!!

 

[sudsmaster]

Well there's also those who collect (and use) classic old TV's here - like Robert's wonderful old Zenith radio/phono/tv combo credenza. For those, all that's needed is a terrestrial digital input to analog NTSC antenna output - something I can do with the Panasonic "Accutune" equipped DVD/VCR. However, I use the RCA audio and SVHS video cables for better picture on the more modern (15 yr old sony color) set to which it is attached.

 

[tolivac]

Tubed radios and amps-ALRIGHT-yes I love the sound of tubes as well.At where I work we have some tubed "radios" alright-250-500Kw SW transmitters the newest is about 20 yrs old-the oldest about 65 yrs old.Had to change a tube in one of them tonight.I think the best radios and hi-fi amps still glow in the dark-same with transmnitters.Solid state just isn't the same.and yes-medium wave("AM")are available as solid state.the outfit I work at has some solid state 1 MW transmitters-don't use them at the site I work.Would like to see them!thousands of Mosfet power transistors.I used to have some classic Tv's but they got stolen many years ago-just haven't been able to rebuild the collection.some of the sets were "cast offs" from behind TV repair shops and appliance stores waiting for the merciless trash truck compactor.glad I saved them-they worked!!Now these are harder to find-no more TV repair shops.

 

[jasonl]

Out with the old...

In with the new

Sony Bravia 40V3000

 

[jasonl]

Picture. SD for now but at least I have it correctly set a 4:3

 

[MrX]

Euro SCART cables

For those of you who are unaware of them, here's what we connect our TVs to our DVDs, Xboxes, Sat boxes, Cable boxes etc etc with in Europe

The 20-pin SCART connector. It carries various combinations of analogue / digital / signals and control signals makes everything pretty much "plug n' play" and cuts down on a whole nest of cables behind TVs.

 

[sudsmaster]

SCART looks Scool!

Anything that does away with the rat's nest of wires behind the typical component system is a quantum leap forward.

 

[cadman]

As a collector and restorer of digital television I've been dreading this day. There's nothing more fun than firing up multiple sets, tuned to over-the-air stations, using their own turret tuners and pulling in distant broadcasts. As a kid I can remember DX'ing with a 9" RCA b&w set, rabbit ears, coat hangers, loose pieces of wire, etc. and enjoying snowy pics from distant towers.

When the mandate goes through, us collectors are faced with the problem of a dozen or so converters (for sets now with unusable tuners), or forced to play switchboard operator to patch a limited number of converted signals hither and fro). The last thing I want are digital boxes (or solid state equipment) hanging around my classy sets. Not even at the service panel!

To complicate matters, I'm building a place in the country to house all these goodies. No cable TV out there and I'm not big on satellite. Reception of digital broadcasts out there will be dodgy for all but the local stations. And it use to be in an emergency or weather situation you'd know what was going on even if all you could tune in was the sound. Now, as mentioned above, it's an all or nothing proposition.

And what about handheld sets? As it were, you could gauge just where to aim the antenna for best reception, especially listening by ear. With digital I imagine you'll be waving that mast and be in a hot spot but by the time the pic is processed and thrown on the screen you'll have swung around to a deadspot....?

Worst case, I'll build a shack and a couple low power transmitters to convert D to A if I have to. That'll keep those Chinese made black boxes out of the living quarters too ; )

 

[selectomatic]

Well Cadman,

You can get an RF modulator or two and make your own cable system in your home. You can get them fairly inexpensively, and they're available in stereo or mono, and some of them let you choose what channel you want to put out.

That way, you can distribute DVDs, videotapes, or the output of a central HDTV tuner all over your house on whatever NTSC channel you desire. I'd also recommend an IR remote extender system so that you can control your source pieces from any room in the house.

A system like this takes a little planning, and it costs a little money, but they can be had for cheaper than you might think.

-kevin