Best/Worst Ever Concensus

[bajaespuma]

Thank you, Panthera,

for expressing an opinion that I didn't have the guts to. While I really appreciate some of the designs and features of the belt- and direct- driven WP/KM family of washers and dryers, I've always had problems with them(and even though I know it's not necessary to ask, I invite any and all to respond,out of curiosity more than anything):

1. Why did the BD WP/KM machines have to be so damn big and clunky? 29" wide when they proved over and over again that they could fit all of the mechanics into a 24" wide cabinet?

2. That stupid "D" shaped tub opening; not the worst thing in the world but, why?

3. On the KM: If you're going to have a lid open to the side of the unit, LET IT GO ALL THE WAY DOWN! Otherwise, it's just in the way!

4. What's with the stupid spin cycle where you let all the dirty water drain down through the clothes you just washed instead of out through the perforations in the washbasket? DUMB!

5. And speaking of the spin cycle, why so freaking slow and ineffective?

6. One of the only machines that don't prevent you from advancing the cycle dials while the unit is on (can damage machine).

7. Dials, dials, dials! Don't give me dials, man! We want buttons!!!! ( although the TOL's usually had some).

8. And don't even get me started on the dryers! (now, Ducks and Runs).

 

[rinso]

Ken, I cracked up at your post. I have often wondered many of the same things, even though the belt-drive WP/KM were actually pretty good machines overall, but I'll add to your oberservations.

1. Why the he** did the BD WP/KM waste so much vertical space at the tops of their tubs. The top of the usable tub is way down from the opening. What a waste of capacity space. Even the DD WP/KM machines commit this sin to an extent.

2. I'm guessing the neutral drain and slow spin were designed in due to the fact that the primative clutch mechanism couldn't take the stress without burning up.

3. Push to start? Pull to stop? Counterintuitive

4. No one on earth can figure out why the complex (and fun) wig-wag mechanism is as reliable as it is.

5. Difficult access to the transmission and motor, and not really very easy to work on. Just changing the drive belt can be a nightmare for the do it yourselfer.

6. TOL KM's were usually festooned with high-tech dials, push buttons and other glitzy designs, but underneath still the tired old anemic spin mechanisms.

7. Why did the KM TOL models have an extra slow speed? It's the last thing in the world any of those machines needed.

Comment about the older dryers:

8. Hamper door my a**. The older models with the hamper door and small round opening "hampered" your access to getting your clothes out.

So, there you have it. My eight oberservations, and yet these are still some of my favorite vintage machines. Go figure!!

 

[bajaespuma]

On a related subject:

My Uncle who I am very angry at right now, and my Mother(brother and sister) were the biggest jerks in my life when it came to my interest in appliances. They would both habitually ask me my opinion on appliances they were interested in buying and then ( and it always felt spiteful) just go and buy the first stupid thing to come along.

My uncle bought a beautiful and ancient house in the Hudson Valley in 1963; it came with an even then vintage Frigidaire WO-65 (going strong and paired with a pathetic Norge dryer from the late 50's; the paint was peeling off of the drum interior). I loved that Frigidaire for exactly the same reasons everyone on this site did. In the late 60's he decided to put the Frigidaire in one of his rental houses and asked me what to buy new to replace it. Of course, at that point, I told him to buy a Maytag. He did exactly what my Mother would do at that point which was to scoff at the suggestion of paying "so much money" for a Maytag ( at that point, they were about 40 dollars more than everything else, which in 1960's dollars would have been like 80 dollars more in today's white-goods economy). He also pointed out that there was a local Whirlpool dealer nearby and he thought it would be smarter to buy a less reliable machine with a repairman conveniently close. In the forty years since we began this stupid game my Uncle has owned 3 different Whirlpool pairs and will be going on his 4th soon. Had he listened back in the late sixties he would most probably still be on that first Maytag. A--hole.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[zzzzz]

Also, if you looked at some BD WP/KMs the wrong way, they would suds-lock.

It seemed like the Super Roto-Swirl-equipped 1968 KM my parents had until around 1982 would suds-lock about 50% of the time. I don't recall any other make of machine being so prone to suds lock. And, yes, this was using the recommended quantity of detergent for the load.

 

[westytoploader]

Frigidaire had push-to-start knobs for some of their machines, as well as some other brands, so Kenmore wasn't the only one. However, I believe it was one of the last brands to make the transition to pull-to-start! Here's what I think of the Whirlpool/Kenmore problems...

1. The D-shaped lid opening doesn't get in the way of loading the clothes for me, but changing out AGITATORS! It was tough trying to get the winged Surgilator in and out of the Frankenmore and 24" Kenmore, but it fit both perfectly!

2. The water pump is easier to change than the belt. 'Nuff said.

3. Why can't the lid be used as a loading shelf, a la Frigidaire, Westinghouse, Norge, etc.? And over time the weight of the lid put strain on the stop, causing it to sag.

4. Slow 525 RPM spin, 505 for large capacity.

5. The outer tub is a horrible design; if the machine is not level, water WILL remain in it. Not only that, but it is absolutely poor for sediment draining, which means it's prone to buildup over time. On the old '68 Kenmore, I pulled sediment "flakes" out that were 1/8" thick!

6. Too many bearings to fail in the centerpost.

So if Whirlpool/Kenmore machines have a few inconveniences, are unnecessarily Rube Goldberg and a b*tch to work on, and aren't the best performance-wise, why is it we love them so much? I think it's not only because of their against-the-odds reliability, it's because they simply have a "following" and are what we are most familiar with seeing. For me, it's all the different types of agitators used as well as the sounds and the wash action. There's just something about them that makes them FUN TO USE AND WATCH!!!

Whirlpool's DD machines are good, reliable performers, IMHO, and their dryers are good as well!

Speaking of against-the-odds reliability, I think it was Greg that mentioned to me about how the Kenmore combos, with more parts than a Volkswagen, weren't as trouble-prone as one would think. Does anyone have any more information on this?

--Austin

 

[gansky1]

I will wholeheartedly agree with most of the sentiments of WP/KM belt-drive washers but remember making a bit of a fuss when my mother bought a Maytag washer in 1981 instead of a black-panel Kenmore. For the same money as the BOL Maytag, we could have had large capacity, two speeds, etc. Whirlpool/Kenmore was always a machine I wanted because almost everyone we knew had Maytag. We had a GE that I look back fondly on now but was bored with at the time it was replaced in '81.

Kenmore machines were feature-laden, popularly priced and easily serviced by a nationwide network. The availability of credit to almost anyone that could "make his mark" accounts for a huge percentage of Sear's good fortune and Kenmore's otherwise unlikely popularity. Were it not for Sears pumping out trainloads of appliances on credit every month for 50 years, I often wonder if Whirlpool would have survived the downsizing of the industry through the years.

 

[panthera]

Kenmore Combos

Maybe because fewer were built, so to keep the profit margin up they had to put better trained workers on them.
Or the general use of heavy-duty components for smaller than average loads.
I'd love to know, tho'.
I looked hard at one of the smallest Sears combos just before I left the 'States this month. Wonder if the 240V connection meant that it just plain had more "juice" available to it than the poor babies struggling on a branch circuit with the refrigerator and half the kitchen or only the gods know what else? 240V lines are always run separately and would offer the highest nominal power.
Just a thought, but all the old manuals mention capacitors for difficult power situations in "rural" areas.
(Ken, it caused enough grief, I wish I'd kept my trap shut. Austin, that is - in a nutshell - exactly 99.99% of the reason US politicians can get away with cheating the US population out of solutions to so many pressing problems: As a large, (generally) well-run and isolated country (Canada is not registered, Mexico...well I ain't gonna go there) folks in the US, unless they invest the time and money, have no idea that in other parts of the world there often are more modern conveniences and serious solutions to some of today's problems.)

 

[tomturbomatic]

Ken, Gene, Keven & Austin, I am another heretic here who did not care for old style bd KM/WP washers & the dryers with the perforated drum back. Under all the glam and glitter, it was the same washing machine year after year with added bells and whistles, but the same neutral drain and slow spin. They were just so white bread. Most people had them. The only WP and KM laundry appliances I liked were the combos. I knew what disasters the big huge ones were, because I had one that I took apart and reassembled. The redesigned 29" machine worked better and I used one for several years mostly with separate washer and dryer backup, in my townhouse. WP was the only manufacturer that did a radical redesign of their combination washer-dryer. It was possible because Sears sold so many machines that WP had the money to invest in the researach and development to bring out a new model that was a great improvement over the first one. They kept refining the new model also, from 1961 until the end of production in the early 70s.

I like my KA washer and dryers. I like the way I can make it go into spin/drain. I like the round tub opening, effective agitation, faster spin and better rinsing with a 4 minute agitation period. Mine is old enough to have spray rinses after the wash and rinse. While older GE & Frigidaire dryers will always have a place in my heart, for modern, efficient drying, I think that the "U-shaped" airflow in the 29" WP built dryers makes them the most efficient of all that I have used. The GE BIG TUB dryer dries fast and is nice for large loads and the regular GE dryer is a beauty and dries fast also. This fall I hope to start using the 60s Norge electric inside as well. It is currently in restoration. It could not have been used much or else it was very well maintained because there was hardly any lint buildup in the machine.

 

[abcomatic]

Worst machine- 1963 Coronado
Best machine- Maytag from the 60's until the model change over in the early 80's.

 

[irishwashguy]

My 2 cents

I would say the best were Vintage----Maytags with the H-drive Tran-my mother had two of them----Speed Queen---Fridgidaire Rollermatic, etc, and Last but not least Belt Driven Kenmore/Whirlpool, you can't kill those things.
Best Modern---Miele hands down, DD Whirlpool Kenmore, Speed Queen
Worst Vintage-------I can't say, except my Aunt had a reall bad I-18 disaster.It was terrible and was serviced contantly, she washed closed at our house when it was broken,
Worst Modern-----Maytag Neptune!!!!!!!!!!!!!!TL GE----sooooooo bad----Norge Maytag Hibrid, bad!!!Magic Chef--bad---Asko, US market Creda( more like Crappa)----!!So bad that they do not sell them in the US anymore. Equator.OMG So bad!!!