Black Friday

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Good one, Jeff :-)

There's no need to "outlaw" anything. There is a need for businesses to take responsibility for their actions, particularly on their property.

What happened at that Wal-Mart was inexcusable. They could have done many things to circumvent it. Simple things, like making an announcement beforehand that they will only let in groups of 25 at a time, or handing out entrance tickets, or forcing people into a single-file line, and letting them in one by one. Other stores do stuff like that all the time, in much more dire circumstances, where they are selling stuff that people actually need.

FWIW, I don't understand why they don't conduct these frenzied sales on-line. It's perfectly possible to open a cyber sale at a pre-arranged time, and sell until inventory is cleared. Ebay does it all the time, nobody gets hurt.

In the meantime, I hope this person's family gets a good trial lawyer, and I hope they take Wal-Mart to the cleaners.
 
Agreed, Dan, agreed.

The case against Wal*Mart for depraved indifference and/or negligence is open and shut.

Tickets, or batches, or a serpentine line.....just common sense.

I have never been a fan of shopping on Black Friday, or the Saturday and Sunday. What Christmas shopping I do, I generally do December 10-15th, and almost always during the day.

Lawrence/Maytagbear
 
The general manager of that store should have been talking to that crowd the entire time. Im sure they had a bullhorn somewhere. The crowd should have been told that unless strict order and control was displayed, the store would not sell any merchandise and the police would be notified!

Wasnt there any armed security? Ive seen restaurants and hotels with armed guards. Is it asking too much of big ole Walmart to do the same when they know their goal is to have a mad rush in the early morning with limited merchandise?
 
I think Walmart is going to get thier socks sued off for creating and environment of mob behavior without proper security proceedures to insure the safety of the employees and other shoppers/guests.
Sadly, the employee who attempted to open the doors was a Christmas temp, not the store manager, nor anyone with experience in handling crowds. He was 34 and in good health, but trampeled to death.

Stores who create hype with limited time prices available only during early times are responsible for providing safety measures for crowds. Walmart could not provide one security guard? That Valley Stream Store probably takes in better than 70 million a year. What a shame.
 
Why put all the blame on Wal-Mart?

My personal feeling is that Wal-Mart shouldn't take all the blame for the incident. Ya Wal-Mart should have done this or should have done that, but what about all those "people" that were in front of that Wal-Mart store. Good Lord people, is it worth someones life to save a few bucks on cheap crap? I think that the majority of the blame should be placed on the IDIOTS that trampled the guy. Anyways thats me just throwing out my two cents.
 
I feel the people who trampled him should all be charged with manslaughter and spend some serious prison time. It would be a bit of work but they could identify many of the people by looking at credit card charges, matching that up to IDs and comparing it to store video. There is no excuse for this ever happening and these people as well a Walmart should pay and pay big.
 
I find the whole "arrest the entire crowd and charge them with murder" argument a bit knee-jerk reactionary.

For one thing, the people who trampled him were most likely being pushed forward and had little choice but to walk over him. This is the danger of large crowds in a panic or in a frenzy. People used to get crushed to death on a regular basis at rock concerts and sporting events until the organizers figured out a way to control the crowd so that these crushing masses were not given a chance to form up. People also have gotten crushed circling the kabah at Mecca - normally a time of deep religous devotion - and I think most in the crowd pushing forward had no idea that someone was being trampled up front in part because of their pushing.

What is disturbing is that Walmart positioned a temp worker behind those doors, had him open them, and then either didn't tell him to get out of the way or told him to try to control the crowd. That is inexcusable on Walmart's part, and it also highlights their practice of trying to hire temps and part time workers at low wages with no benefits to avoid having to pay living wages and a full time job. And the store knew there would be trouble because they posted a sign in front that said, "The Blitz Starts Here". That was almost like waving a red flag in front of the crowd.
 
Apart from a very few people in the front of the line, who would even know the employee was knocked down until they happened to trod upon him? Even then, what could they do? A mob is almost impossible to control: If a good Samaritan wanted to help, there would be literally no way for them to stop the crowd behind them - they would just end up on the floor next to the victim.

This is about as clear cut a case of criminal negligence as you can get.
 
I read a story on this on the MSNBC news on the computer and according to witnesses that were there-the people trying to get into that store were leaning so hard on the entrance doors that they bowed and finally broke-that poor employee got caught in the enslaught of people.Wouldn't common sense tell you to GET OUT OF THE WAY if you saw the doors bowing under the pressure of the crowd-you can't control it at that point esp if its just one man.I think at these event there should be police on hand to control the crowd-NOT store employees.Police are trained to do that sort of work.At least the folks trying to get in would show some restraint if police officers were on the scene before the event started.And yes-is the life of a person worth getting at the junk that is on sale at "Wally-World"?I stay home on Black Fridays-and most of that week.Just isn't worth the hassle.Because I work mids-get to SLEEP thru all of that!Friday was my Monday at work-and HOLIDAY PAY DAY!!!
 
Wal Mart AND ALL other stores are to blame

that have the limited too good to be true sales. They caused the hype and frenzy. a lawsuit is NOT enough, They should be fined for creating public disorder!
 
So sad...People killed over a bunch of Chinese junk that will probably only last till next "Black Friday". "Black Friday" is the perfect name for it!

...I slept in, woke up late and did some housekeeping...didn't dare get near any commercial development that day...glad I did what I did!
 
There is a need for businesses to take responsibility for th

Countryford- I think you're awake. The rest of America, WAKE THE F**K UP.

It's time for people to take responsibility for their actions. Or, should I say get BACK to taking responsibility? The companies are only offering goods for a price to entice buyers to their store. They DO NOT control the actions of the idiots that line up and fight their way in. C'mon. I know society has gotten to be a lot about blaming everyone but themselves for everything that happens, but this is open and shut. These people did what they did for one reason: greed. Anyone with any moral conscience wouldn't have been involved in this (who wouldn't notice a person under their feet????).

Unless James Sokalove gets involved. Then it'll be Walmart's fault for this incident, AND that your kid can't pass math class ('cause he's too busy playing video games his/her parents bought at Walmart)!!!

Chuck
 
i dont think the death was ALL WMs fault, but they arent blameless.

They knew there was a problem about two hours before the incident since the police had already been there. I wonder where the store manager was during all this? What did the store manager do to entertain/temper the crowd?

Ive also read several accounts that claim the neighborhood is rude and out of control.
 
Crowd Management

I tend to agreee with Sudsmaster (SF Bay Area). I was in New Orleans for MardiGras and ended up in one of those pressing crowds. My wife clung to me and the crowd was literally pressed body to body, unable to move anywhere but where the crowd, as a whole moved, until we reached an intersection and the press relaxed enough for us to scramble to a side street. Our fear was that one of us would stumble and slide to the street - a trampling would have been inevitable. At that point, there is no "individual" decision making going on - you just realize that a stroll on Bourbon Street has become a survival situation. I did not step on a body but would have felt it pretty unfair to throw me in jail had I done so.

Conclusion: The business owners (or athletic event managers) must control the crowd. The crowd was invited. A crowd is unable to control itself. Live (or die) and learn.
 
hmmmmm,

well Im with Countryford on the fact that some people even crowds of them think nothing of shunning responsibilty to thier fellow man.

I dont think this crowd should be hounded or persacuted for this tragic event. Imagine the horror any of them expierenced upon finding blood or any trace of the event on thier shoes, wondering what thier role in all this had been.

Do I think Walmart is resopnsible, no! They could have practiced thier God given right to refuse service to anyone,but imagine the riot that would have caused.

Walmart will pay, either willingly or by force of court and in turn that means you and I will pay to make up the loss, somewhere some how down the line.

Im in the concert business, I can tell you , you cannot control an out of control crowd. I once worked a Joan Jett show where they expected about three thousand people (1990) not in her hey day. They took out spectators insurance for five thousand people. Fifteen thousand people showed up! Who knew? fortunately nothing happened, it was a biker crowd and they were all very well behaved, but people were in private peoples yards. people were dancing on the roofs of nieghboring buildings, people were hanging out of windows and behind the stage area people were stopping to take pictures on a state hiway ( boy did we ever get fined up the ying yang for that)
Still the reason that it went over well was because of the respect of the crowd and ofcorse Miss Jetts way of handling the unexpected, many times between songs she asked that people watch out for each other.As a personal favor to me, She said, I dont want any of you to get hurt coz I want you all at my next show.A class act..
But the potential for disaster was incredible.

sudshane you are so wrong if you think trampling dosent still occur at concerts. People often get hurt tho deathly maimeing dosent happen as much anymore.I dare any of you to walk through one of these mosh pits that get started, even the good guys that are just having fun are getting whacked!!!and Whacking back, the very idea of it is to GET HURT! Pain is funny.

Unfortunatly thats what we got going on for us guys. Now Im not old but I am past the I can defy gravity stage but what I see comming up is a socoiety that isnt smart enough to recognize the science in that.But I can forgive the under twenty crowd for it, I dont understand a retail crowd of all ages jumping in.
Its just tragic but all in all I put it back on the people, there should have been some self-policing going on in that crowd.I heard too the stories of that nieghborhood being rouogh and having the dog eat dog mentality. First I wonder if its true, second I wonder how much that plays into it.If theres any excuse to be had I guess that would be the one to use............just sad.
Im sad, my heart goes out to those with the loss.
Im sad for you and me because of what this says about all of us as human family.Wow!
 
I went to see Pink Floyd's "The Wall" concert in L.A. back in 1980. Fans had just been trampled to death at a Who show in Ohio, just a few weeks earlier. So I'm sitting in my seat, in the 8th row, I look up and one of the overhead stage curtains was burning. At least in my section I was the only one who noticed it. So I kept looking up and just stuck out my arm, with my finger pointing to the flames. Within a minute the entire section was pointing, and Roger Waters stopped the show at that point. They brought the house lights up and the arena was FULL of smoke, you could barely see across it. Took about 30 minutes to get to and extinguish the fire, and the show continued. Awesome show BTW. :-)
 

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