Bleach and Detergent Interaction

[supersurgilator]

I was bleaching whites this morning and the bleach did a funny thing again, this has happened maybe 3 or 4 times. I put the detergent (liquid Tide) into the washer and start the water. When there is about 3 or 4 inches of water I pour in the bleach. As soon as it hits the water, the water turns a red rusty color, then immediately clears back up. The whole interaction lasts maybe 2 or 3 seconds at most. I find it bizarre and wonder what is causing this.

 

[maytagbear]

Well, for one thing

for best results, chlorine bleach should NOT be added at the same time as detergent. Bleach should be added at the last five minutes of the wash phase, or in the first deep rinse.

Adding chlorine bleach this early kills the enzymes in the detergent.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[kenwashesmonday]

Maytagbear is correct about when to add the bleach. Even though I add the bleach later, I have noticed the red effect when adding bleach.

Ken D.

 

[bernina]

I've seen that, too

I think it could be the bleach reacting with the bluing in the liquid Tide.

You're right, it disappears quickly. So I guess it never made me too concerned.

I always thought liquid Tide didn't have enzymes...

 

[kenmoreguy64]

I have been accumulating old Kenmore washer owner's manuals from the 1960s. They were well thought-out back then and have many tips for laundering in general. They always say invariably, 'Do not add chlorine bleach until 5 minutes or more AFTER the wash cycle as begun with detergent'. They go on to explain that chlorine bleach deactivates detergent in general. Maybe they meant the enzymes, but I took them more generally then that.

I too have seen the carmel colored water briefly - its a bit unnerving, but as you said, very temporariy. I'd put the bleach in for the last five minutes or so - let the detergent do it's thing initially, then let the bleach at it after.

Gordon

 

[golittlesport]

This makes sense why modern front loaders dispense bleach after the wash cycle into the first rinse, essentially turning that first rinse into a bleach bath. Very effective. I rarely use bleach, but if I do I add the extra rinse option since I feel like I'm losing a rinse with the bleach bath.

Most modern top loader bleach "dispensers" just let the bleach run right into the tub when added, albiet away from direct contact with clothes. One would have to wait and add bleach into the dispenser towards the end of the wash cycle to get best results. They should go back to timed bleach dispensers in top load agitator washers...how difficult and expensive can that be?

 

[golittlesport]

I think CR dinged top loaders in its recent tests and did not even consider as actual dispensers these "tub funnels" that run bleach into tubs immediately as user adds it before cycle has even started. There is really not much value or convenience to that type of bleach dispenser, if one can even call them that (although all the manufacturers do.)

Back in the day, Maytag had a very cool bleach dispensing system that gradually added the bleach during the wash cycle, and then there was the Whirlpool/Kenmore dispensers that held the bleach until the last five minutes of wash.

 

[appnut]

Kenmore dispensers that held the bleach until the last five

Beld drive Kenmores with timed bleach dispensed at the 4 minute mark. So did our 1964 Norge dispensoMat. So with both machines, the shortest white wash load time I'd set was 10 minutes. On my 1986 Lady Shredmore, the dispenser flushes at the two minute mark.

 

[sudsman]

The reddish pink you are seeing is just that. The killing of

Bleach should never be added with detergent and only after at least 5 mins of running time. Giving the detergent a chance to do its job. There is a old term used by many laundry managers, bleach in the clear. Which means bleach is best done in clear water with no other additives. Wash the load clean and bleach it white. Most commerical plants run bleach in the 2nd or 3 rd bath depending on the soil content. and is done in water not hotter than 140 for a period of 6 to 8 mins. normally bleach has done 90% of what it is going to do in 5 mins. unless the temperature is very low and then you would need to add 2 or 3 mins to compsenate. I have found that in this plant bleach is most effective when run @ 130 for 8 mins @ med water level. I use both dry and liquid depends on the machine and the items being washed and the soil content. Dry bleach does not effect the colors as bad as does liquid. And is easier to use but is quite costly now. Most of the time only 2 0z per 50# load is all that is needed. Adding a half oz of stpp helps a lot too.

 

[kqkenmore]

When I had top loaders without a timed bleach dispenser I use to use Era and it did the same thing and I called P&G and they said that it was killing the enzymes in the detergent.I know how you feel I though that I had ruined a whole load of laundry.

 

[jons1077]

4 minutes

My pushbutton Kenmore adds bleach at 4 minutes left in the wash. For the full cycle it gets 10 minutes before bleach is added. Then of course extra rinsing...

 

[frigilux]

I use liquid Tide with ColorClean Bleach Alternative and two Tide Stain Release pacs in my '06 Frigidaire top-loader when washing loads of highly-stained kitchen whites.

I let it agitate about 12 minutes, then I add 3/4 to 1-1/4 cups liquid bleach to the water. Within 30 seconds, a layer of foamy suds appears on top of the water.

 

[launderess]

The bleach "alternative" is a combination of surfactants, enzymes, and a heavy dose of OBAs designed to give the stain removal, whiteness and brightness of using bleach. In this case one assumes P&G/Tide means LCB.

Tide "Stain Release" liquid,pacs and powder is an activated oxygen bleach system, with surfactants and so forth.

P&G holds several patents for activated oxygen bleaching systems,first used in Tide With Bleach, and Tide with Hydrogen Peroxide and other versions, but now found in many other P&G laundry detergents. Biz "bleach" was developed using many of the same patents as it was also an activated oxygen bleach, at at time when most laundry detergents sold in the USA did not contain oxygen bleach.

 

[frigilux]

I hate that Tide products are so tenaciously sudsy when used with mechanically softened water (especially in my front-loader) but I have yet to find a detergent that cleans better than Tide with Bleach Alternative.

I tried a bottle of liquid Gain with Bleach Alternative and love the scent, but it doesn't remove stains as well as its Tide counterpart.

For all the 57 varieties of Tide P&G have foisted on us recently, you'd think they could create an ultra-low sudsing detergent in both regular and HE versions!

The cleanest rinsing detergents I've ever used: SA8 (which, until the wizards at Amway changed/diluted the formulation was also a top cleaner), and UK powdered Persil.

 

[bajaespuma]

I had this same problem in Hyde Park, NY

Have you had your water tested? I would bet that it's very hard and has a high concentration of iron in it. The iron gets oxidized the minute the chlorine hits it. What you're seeing, essentially, is rust. I couldn't even use Chlorine bleach in my washer, except for sanitizing stuff, because it would turn all the white things brownish. I'm betting that what's happening with you is that the high concentration of chlorine, initially, is oxidizing all the iron in the water, then something in the detergent, re-reduces a lot of the iron, but not all of it, it just appears to improve. You might need either a fancy water-softening system or swear off Clorox for the time being.

 

[supersurgilator]

Yes our water is very hard in this area, but I rarely use bleach anyway. I use it to bleach my sheets and underwear maybe twice a year, just to get them whiter.