BobVila.com rates Dishwashers.
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wmlask
Active member
Really?
"Even if you already own a dishwasher, you too have a lot to gain by purchasing a new model. Today's dishwashers use at least 40 percent less water than similar appliances manufactured 20 years ago. Besides conservation, there's a compelling financial reason to upgrade: An Energy Star-rated dishwasher could save you more than $40 per year. The question really isn't why should you buy a dishwasher; it's why shouldn't you? "
Infidels!!!
"Even if you already own a dishwasher, you too have a lot to gain by purchasing a new model. Today's dishwashers use at least 40 percent less water than similar appliances manufactured 20 years ago. Besides conservation, there's a compelling financial reason to upgrade: An Energy Star-rated dishwasher could save you more than $40 per year. The question really isn't why should you buy a dishwasher; it's why shouldn't you? "
Infidels!!!
$40 a year?
Based on MY calculations, from a $600 machine (I assume this is "typical" for the better models they might refer to), it would take 15 years to recoup the money from the upgrade.
You'd sooner recoup the cost in the amount of water saved just doing the dishes WITH the dishwasher.
This is the same as the "replace the old fridge" debacle - Sure, you might save up to $100 annually, BUT, newer appliances with the best ratings cost into the 1,000s of $. So then you're up for about 5yrs worth of operation. And with new appliances reliability............ Good luck recouping that money!!!
Based on MY calculations, from a $600 machine (I assume this is "typical" for the better models they might refer to), it would take 15 years to recoup the money from the upgrade.
You'd sooner recoup the cost in the amount of water saved just doing the dishes WITH the dishwasher.
This is the same as the "replace the old fridge" debacle - Sure, you might save up to $100 annually, BUT, newer appliances with the best ratings cost into the 1,000s of $. So then you're up for about 5yrs worth of operation. And with new appliances reliability............ Good luck recouping that money!!!
The raison d'être for that article is to sell dishwashers, which is good for the economy.
Corporations and stockholders are rewarded when appliance lifespans are short, repairs impractical, and manufacturing occurs at the lowest possible cost.
It is your duty as a consumer to do what's best for corporations. Manufacturing jobs would flourish if American workers accepted the wages paid in Mexico and India. Not me, of course--I'm management--but the rest of you.[this post was last edited: 9/13/2014-10:39]
Corporations and stockholders are rewarded when appliance lifespans are short, repairs impractical, and manufacturing occurs at the lowest possible cost.
It is your duty as a consumer to do what's best for corporations. Manufacturing jobs would flourish if American workers accepted the wages paid in Mexico and India. Not me, of course--I'm management--but the rest of you.[this post was last edited: 9/13/2014-10:39]
I believe Harriette Nelson said that a dishwasher saved an hour of work a day. Maybe the lower figures are because people are not cooking as much now.
twintubdexter
Well-known member
Like defending children, parents of vintage appliances don't take kindly to people mean-mouthing their dishwashers...very understandable. For someone like me who uses the dishwasher once a month or less, operating costs don't mean much.
An interesting article about the Nelson's old home now for sale in the Hollywood Hills stated "gone are all of Harriet's old and outdated appliances" and that the kitchen was now strictly gourmet. I think they were talking about the stuff that replaced the Hotpoint items...provided there actually were any Hotpoint appliances to begin with.
As long as you're selling and not buying, you gotta love those California property values...
An interesting article about the Nelson's old home now for sale in the Hollywood Hills stated "gone are all of Harriet's old and outdated appliances" and that the kitchen was now strictly gourmet. I think they were talking about the stuff that replaced the Hotpoint items...provided there actually were any Hotpoint appliances to begin with.
As long as you're selling and not buying, you gotta love those California property values...
ovrphil
Well-known member
twintubdexter
Well-known member
Missing things including "the boat" seems to be my specialty. Sorry, I don't read everything posted & thanks.
ovrphil
Well-known member
NO sorry's apply - just happen to notice and it was strictly if you wanted to look. Have a good weekend !
norgeway
Well-known member
RE water usage...
It still never fails to amaze me how the dont say how much that 2 to 4 hours of electricity is going to cost vs 35 minutes to 1 hour....water is cheaper than electricity...you all do the math!I have no use for a new dishwasher, mainly because my 30 year old Kitchenaid will blast anything clean...in an hour!!!
It still never fails to amaze me how the dont say how much that 2 to 4 hours of electricity is going to cost vs 35 minutes to 1 hour....water is cheaper than electricity...you all do the math!I have no use for a new dishwasher, mainly because my 30 year old Kitchenaid will blast anything clean...in an hour!!!
Thing is - Using motors that aren't very powerful is actually not going to use more power than your traditional KitchenAid.
If we consider the DishDrawer, which uses a 60w motor, running for 2hrs or 4hrs:
2Hrs: 0.120kWh used
4Hrs: 0.240kWh used
Realistic Operation - 60min "Delicates" cycle (Our "daily driver"): 0.06kWh
Both the 2hr and 4hr situations are unrealistic, as the DishDrawer doesn't take longer than about 90minutes to do the heaviest cycle (and it will be shortened, depending on incoming water temperature).
Now, if we consider the KitchenAid Dishwasher, which in the KDS-23 series used a 1/2HP motor, based on your figures:
30mins: Mac OS's nifty conversion tool suggests a 1/2HP = 0.37284994kWh - so in 30 minutes you use 0.18642497kWh of electricity
60mins: 0.37284994kWh
So in actual fact, your dishwasher would use more electricity in operation than one of these "new fangled" machines. Even running both drawers to meet the capacity of the KA machine, power usage is still lower and the results are still great.
We also get automatic water heating, which would certainly skew the results in that regard (But using an older KA might require the water set to 140 or higher anyway...).
Based on this data, such an argument of the ever-increasing cycle times versus the water used don't really stack up.
Less Water = Smaller Dishwasher pump = Longer cycle times (Less = More) = Same great results, if not better (longer washup period gives better enzyme action).
If we consider the DishDrawer, which uses a 60w motor, running for 2hrs or 4hrs:
2Hrs: 0.120kWh used
4Hrs: 0.240kWh used
Realistic Operation - 60min "Delicates" cycle (Our "daily driver"): 0.06kWh
Both the 2hr and 4hr situations are unrealistic, as the DishDrawer doesn't take longer than about 90minutes to do the heaviest cycle (and it will be shortened, depending on incoming water temperature).
Now, if we consider the KitchenAid Dishwasher, which in the KDS-23 series used a 1/2HP motor, based on your figures:
30mins: Mac OS's nifty conversion tool suggests a 1/2HP = 0.37284994kWh - so in 30 minutes you use 0.18642497kWh of electricity
60mins: 0.37284994kWh
So in actual fact, your dishwasher would use more electricity in operation than one of these "new fangled" machines. Even running both drawers to meet the capacity of the KA machine, power usage is still lower and the results are still great.
We also get automatic water heating, which would certainly skew the results in that regard (But using an older KA might require the water set to 140 or higher anyway...).
Based on this data, such an argument of the ever-increasing cycle times versus the water used don't really stack up.
Less Water = Smaller Dishwasher pump = Longer cycle times (Less = More) = Same great results, if not better (longer washup period gives better enzyme action).
norgeway
Well-known member
But the difference is!
I put in dirty baked on stuff, and it comes out clean...I can wash and put away 2 loads by the time you get one done in a new machine...I will keep on using vintage!!....Vintage everything!!!
I put in dirty baked on stuff, and it comes out clean...I can wash and put away 2 loads by the time you get one done in a new machine...I will keep on using vintage!!....Vintage everything!!!
Very Good Point
This is a good point - especially with many machines taking their dear time on typical loads. Even 84 minutes on a heavy load can be a little tedious with our machine if we are really in a hurry - but that hasn't happened yet. Thankfully, anything extra can be "stowed" in the drawer that (hopefully) isn't running, but for everyone else - it has to go on the sink.
So buyers must now consider potential energy savings, over the convenience of speed with newer models...
I think some European models offer a fast cycle that uses more water to work quicker (Bosch?)
This is a good point - especially with many machines taking their dear time on typical loads. Even 84 minutes on a heavy load can be a little tedious with our machine if we are really in a hurry - but that hasn't happened yet. Thankfully, anything extra can be "stowed" in the drawer that (hopefully) isn't running, but for everyone else - it has to go on the sink.
So buyers must now consider potential energy savings, over the convenience of speed with newer models...
I think some European models offer a fast cycle that uses more water to work quicker (Bosch?)
mrb627
Well-known member
Double Your Fun
I noticed a trend to have more than one DW, more than one laundry room and such.
Malcolm
I noticed a trend to have more than one DW, more than one laundry room and such.
Malcolm
