Boosting the furnace

[sudsmaster]

Eddie,

 

You're lucky that your house is shaded by trees and stays cool enough in the summer. Most of the summer here at this house, I have to shut all the windows in the morning and pull the shades on the south and west sides. That's because the long side of the house faces west, and faces a paved (concrete) courtyard that reflects a lot of heat. I planted a line of shade trees along the property line about 15 years ago, and they've grown to 20 feet or so, but they are not close enough to shade the house in the heat of the day. At night I open the windows and sometimes run fans as well, to pull in cool night air to cool everything down. This way the interior of the home stays in the 70's , sometimes into the 80's on really hot days, such as when it's 100 outside. Adding insulation to the attic seems to have helped a lot to prevent heat from the roof radiating down to the living quarters below. I have a small portable A/C unit in the family room that I can run when it gets unbearable; this last summer I think I ran it for just a few of the hottest nights.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ea56]

Rich,
Believe me, we know how lucky we are! I’ve lived in over 23 places since I moved out on my own in 1970 when I was 19, and we’ve lived here for 25 years now. I’ve never been happier in any other home I’ve lived in. The grounds are beautiful, and every window in the house has a view of trees. And these trees provide that cooling shade for the downstairs. It stays so cool that on days where its still 80 outside, in the afternoon when the sun is no longer shining on the front of the house I often will put on a sweat shirt in the late afternoon because it’s so cool downstairs.

Now the upstairs is quite a different story, on hot days by the late afternoon its pretty hot upstairs. But the lovely ocean breeze that we get at least 350 evenings a year comes up when the sun starts to set and if we open up all the windows upstairs it cools right down. We do have 3 Dyson fans and those fans move the air around enough to keep us cool and comfortable on all but the hottest days of a heat wave.

The complex was built in 1980, and the insulation is minimal, but there is some. I’m not certain of the R rating, but probably only what code required in 80’. We did have a pipe leak in the wall of the living room where the main water line enters the home in 1998. The plumber needed to remove a 12”X12” section of sheetrock to make the repair. I did the patch repair myself, so I know that there is insulation because I had to replace a section of it. I just purchased a scrap piece at Home Depot along with a scrape piece of sheetrock, 3 ft. of 2”X3/3” scrape lumber, some sheetrock screws, tape, plaster and a can of spray texture, because we have orange peel texture on the wall. I spent $13.66 for the materials and it took me about 2 hrs total over 2-3 days to finish, and I’d never done it before, just learned how by watching a DIY TV program. And no one can even tell that it was patched. The HOA reimbursed me for my cost. My next door neighbor had the same repair done the next year, and the HOA paid $175.00 for the patch, I know because I’ve been on the HOA board for 24 years.

Anyway, sorry to digress, but having lived in N. Calif my whole life I know what you are experiencing in your home as far as comfort level during hot and cold weather. I think to a certain extent we notice it more now because the extremes of heat and cold are more dramatic than they were when our homes were built. Back in the old days, Bay Area weather was more temperate, therefore homes weren’t built for climate extremes. Also, at least for myself I’m 68 now, and 28 tolerates extreme cold and heat a whole lot better than 68, especially the cold if you have arthritis, and most of us in our 60’s have at least a little of the “room-a-tiz” as Granny Clampett used to say.

Eddie[this post was last edited: 11/17/2019-19:19]

 

[sudsmaster]

Eddie,

 

What gets me is that from my experience here, the old plaster and lathe walls seem to have better insulating value than the newer drywall walls, even when there is fiberglass between the drywall and outer wall.

 

There is one difference: the crawl space under the addition has more ventilation than the older part of the house. So that may be a factor... but I made sure to heavily insulate the attic and under the floor in the addition to compensate for the increased ventilation. The older part of the house has markedly less crawl space ventilation. It seems to work OK, as there never seems to be any dampness down there. One reason is that the front part of the house - the part facing the street - has a tall foundation, triangular in shape, that acts like a buttress against the soil in front. In other words, no cripple wall on that side, so no vents. And the vents on the east side of the older part of the home are reduced in number, as they are blocked by a variety of constructions, such as a fireplace, a half bath, stairs, water heater, and the patio kitchen counter. It all works out to about 225 sq ft of '41 house per sq ft of foundation vent, vs. 61 sq ft of addition per sq ft of foundation vent. The addition crawl space is open (save for an open cripple wall) to the main house crawl, so there must be some compensating air circulation between the two. But the probable deficient part is that the entire north-east corner of the house has no foundation venting. There's about 30 feet of the east side, and about 26 feet of the north side, without any foundation venting. It is perhaps not as bad as it sounds since the shed roofing over the half bath and patio kitchen tends to keep that side of the house perfectly dry. But still, if I were to address this I'd add a couple of foundation vents to the northeast corner of the structure. I helped compensate for the lack of venting by laying down polyethylene tarp on the exposed dirt in the entire crawl space, which should reduce moisture intrusion from the earth (where I gather a lot of foundation/moisture originates). I also installed full perimeter strip venting in the roof soffits, where little to none existed before. That, along with the attic floor insulation, likely helps keep the living quarters cooler in the summer heat.

 

Hey, it all beats a soggy sleeping bag in the park. ;-)

 

 

[mattl]

One thing I''ve found during the summer if I open the attic access it keeps the whole second floor cooler. Creates a chimney effect and the attic does not get to 120+ with the sun beating down.  I actually drop my whole house fan over the opening, use it inn the evening mostly.  Pull it out for the winter and close it up.

 

[sudsmaster]

That's probably a good idea, with the attic opening. I could probably work up a frame to house a cheap window box fan to do the same. But the soffit vents also serve the same purpose, to keep the attic cool, more or less. They are combined with roof vents higher on the roofing, although from my reading it appears an attic can be adequately vented with just soffit venting.

 

I have accumulated a fair amount of firewood from managing trees on the property. It's fairly well aged now. The problem in this area are the frequent "no burn" days designed to keep the air quality from degrading from wood smoke during cold windless weather. Just the nights when a cozy wood fire would seem best. Ah, the price we pay to live in a supposed paradise.

 

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Poor (inherited from her father) Circulation, here?

I think I need to thoroughly read up in this topic... My wife is the one who complains about being cold, but when I am mostly in charge of the thermostat in interest of saving energy, I find myself going from what I think is a cold house, to making things sweltering...!

So, to, wit, here, in;S-E Michigan is where our thermostat is set:

Making me wonder, as our furnace is just now kicking on, wondering why o complaint from the wife about the cold that I’m feeling, to my relief I’m hearing her (the furnace);starting up, providing warmth not her (my wife) starting up about the (her) typical lack of...

— Dave

 

[sudsmaster]

Not sure what that thermostat is, but if it's not programmable, my suggestion is to get a programmable model. I program my Lux 1500 to start at 5 or 6 pm to heat the house to 67F, then at 11:30 pm it goes down to 64. Depending on my schedule, it starts up again in the morning to 67, then ratchets down to 64 for the day. The thing has separate routines for weekdays and Sat and Sun, as well. The main difference I make for the weekend is a later morning startup time. It takes the millivolt signal from the heater pilot, as well as a couple of internal AA batteries that last at least a year. Of course it can be overridden if someone starts raising a ruckus about the temperature, and then it goes back to the schedule at the next time point,  or it can be disabled completely. The Lux 1500, as I recall, was reasonably priced about 10 years ago at $25 or less. I would never go back to a manual thermostat.

 

 

[dometicsavant]

Would it be possible to check into something like an injectable foam insulation? Could be a possible solution for walls with minimal to no insulation.

 

[mattl]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, humidity can be a key.  As mentioned I'm totally comfortable at 64 degrees, but I keep my humidity as close to 50% as possible, less than that and I do feel cool.  My April Aire humidifier has an outdoor sensor that track temps and adjusts the humidity as needed, most people do not adjust their humidistat to reflect the exterior temp.  I also run hot water to the humidifier, the furnace guys that installed the furnace had to put the humidifier on the cold air return and told me that only way I'd get close to enough humidity was to use hot water.  It does work well.

 

[askolover]

I grew up with the central gas heat set on 74.  In the 70's energy crunch my dad built a chimney and put up a wood stove.  We'd get used to that warmth and as winter dwindled down we'd take the stove down and store it in the room outside until next winter.  We'd freeze using the gas heat after the stove was taken down.  They no longer use wood in the house so keep the furnace set on 74.  I like the comfort but it's hard to breathe since my own gas furnace is set on 72 and I've acclimated to that temp.  I'm usually cold-natured.  I wear 4 layers to work because we all know how cold it gets in hospitalsSummertime I keep the central AC at 76-77. 

 

[thomasortega]

Ok, now something REALLY weird.

I arrived home a few minutes ago (1:30 am).

Darryl left the furnace on and the space heater off and I can imagine it was several hours ago, so it was the perfect scenario to grab the thermometer and make some readings.

External temperature (according to Alexa): 63°F

Living room:
10 inches far from the furnace at my chest height 119°F
Right in front of the sofa (opposite to the furnace) 59°F (how can it be COLDER than outside considering outside isn't that cold AND the furnace is on?
Right in front of the thermostat: 71°F (It's set to 75 now)

Bedroom:
Door was closed, so the air wasn't mixing with the living room.
10 inches in front of the furnace (with the fan on the floor right in front of it, pointed at it at a 45° angle): 103°F

Right where my desk is (measured right in front of the chair, where I would normally be seated: 61°F (again, it's colder than outside.)

Spare bedroom: (no furnace, no heater, no nothing and door is kept closed. I measured it just to have a reference) 54°F WTF? That's 9 degrees colder than outside! How can that be ever possible?

This eliminates the theory that I'm sick or that I'm crazy. It's not "that" cold. I can survive... but in a month it will be much colder and....?

More theories. Heat is never "lost", it's exchanged, transformed into colder temperatures.... Where is the heat from the furnace going?

In the living room, ok, the fan there was off (it's actually an oreck air whatever electrostatic wannabe a filter.) but in the bedroom the fan blowing air upwards should at least mix some of the air.

And the cherry on top goes to the bathroom. door was closed, window closed. space heater off.

The moment I opened the door I could feel it was warmer. for a fraction of second i thought the space heater was on, until I looked at it and saw it was off.
Theoretically the bathroom should be the coldest place. It was 67°F (4 degrees hotter than outside and much hotter than right in front of the sofa that is in the living room with a furnace running almost non-stop since it was turned on.). BUT HOW?

Something VERY strange is happening here. I thought the temperature readings would help me solving the mistery but it just made it worse.

 

[askolover]

My living room, kitchen, and each bedroom all have 2 outside walls.  Those rooms are significantly colder than the bathroom which has only one small outside wall.  It's warmer in the bathroom.  My house is insulated in the walls to 1956 standards but there's thicker insulation up in the attic that was added at some point by a previous owner.  Frequently when we have cold nights and warm days and still need the AC in the day time, overnight it will still cycle the AC even though the outside temp may be in the mid 60's and the thermostat will be set at 76.  Warmer inside than outside and causing the air to kick on.  Can't open the windows at that time due to humidity and mugginess.  Tony thought I was playing some kind of trick when the house was showing 74 degrees once and the Tstat was set on 72.  "How can that be"? he asked me.

 

[combo52]

Interesting inside apartment temperatures.

I would call an engineer to investigate, this type of thing usually as a simple answer if you know what you are looking for.

 

John L.

 

[iowabear]

An 80s Solution Comes to Mind

If there's something weird
And it don't look good

Who you gonna call?

 

[thomasortega]

Dustbusters!

I couldn't miss the joke but... nah, in that case Dustbusters or Ghostbusters wouldn't help much.

Btw, i have a dustbuster flex and I love it.