The early generations of Duets were made by Bauknecht (owned by Whirlpool).
Bosch weighs offer for appliance maker Whirlpool
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Bosch toploaders are relabeled Whirlpool/Indesit machines.
Some numbers from statista
I find it hard to believe the US would approve this merger. Their main concern will be concentration in the dishwasher market. Bosch and Whirlpool are probably the 2 biggest players. I don't think they will be too concerned about other appliance categories, since Bosch is a pretty small player in the US outside dishwashers.
But, experience shows that concentration in a single appliance category is enough to block a merger. The GE-Electrolux merger was blocked over cooking appliances.
But, experience shows that concentration in a single appliance category is enough to block a merger. The GE-Electrolux merger was blocked over cooking appliances.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
i wonder how bosch would make maytag washer dryers as well as kitchenaid dishwashers as well as the whirlpool line of washer dryers?
Given that Haier was then allowed to acquire GE that's somewhat weird...
But that can always happen.
But that can always happen.
Electrolux was going to buy GE appliances, but US DOJ squashed that deal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Appliances#History
Haier was one of few if only players left willing and able to cough up over $5 billion USD for GE appliances. More to the point Asian appliance manufacturers have smaller market shares than say Whirlpool or Electrolux. This means less risk of anti trust objections because one large company is gobbling up another eliminating a competitor.
Haier originally wanted to buy Maytag, but pulled out of the running. If that deal had gone through it's highly unlikely Haier would have been able to buy GE Appliances.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...tag-bid/f05586dd-097d-41b8-8cee-99c3bd17a72b/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Appliances#History
Haier was one of few if only players left willing and able to cough up over $5 billion USD for GE appliances. More to the point Asian appliance manufacturers have smaller market shares than say Whirlpool or Electrolux. This means less risk of anti trust objections because one large company is gobbling up another eliminating a competitor.
Haier originally wanted to buy Maytag, but pulled out of the running. If that deal had gone through it's highly unlikely Haier would have been able to buy GE Appliances.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...tag-bid/f05586dd-097d-41b8-8cee-99c3bd17a72b/
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www.forbes.com
Unless consumer start protesting at every level, it doesn't matter who buys who, appliance quality will keep going down hill.
henene4: Haier barely sold any major appliances in the US prior to buying GE. There was little concern over competition.
By contrast Electrolux had a big presence in the US (as they have since they bought WCI in the 80s) and there was a lot of product overlap between them and GE. There wasn't so much of a competition concern with refrigeration and laundry (with LG and Samsung having a large US market share) or dishwashers (with Bosch having a large US market share). But with cooking, back in 2014 at least, there were only three companies with significant US market share: Whirlpool, GE, and Electrolux - and the DOJ determined that reducing those three competitors to two would hurt consumers.
By contrast Electrolux had a big presence in the US (as they have since they bought WCI in the 80s) and there was a lot of product overlap between them and GE. There wasn't so much of a competition concern with refrigeration and laundry (with LG and Samsung having a large US market share) or dishwashers (with Bosch having a large US market share). But with cooking, back in 2014 at least, there were only three companies with significant US market share: Whirlpool, GE, and Electrolux - and the DOJ determined that reducing those three competitors to two would hurt consumers.
But by that logic, Bosch will very much be allowed to buy Whirlpool.
Bosch has a very minor market share, so it won't really cut out a competitor.
Especially since Whirlpool is very much more internationally active than GE - it will have a much bigger international than national effect, by percentage at least.
Bosch has a very minor market share, so it won't really cut out a competitor.
Especially since Whirlpool is very much more internationally active than GE - it will have a much bigger international than national effect, by percentage at least.
If Bosch buys whirlpool
They might learn how to make a decent dishwasher that can be serviced and isn’t such a flimsy piece of junk I can’t believe how many of those plastic bottomed dishwasher Bosch sells and none of their dishwashers except the ultra premium ones do a half Way decent job of drying dishes.
But I don’t think they should be allowed to buy because whirlpool and Bosch are currently the two biggest dishwasher makers, GE and Electrolux are still very much in the mix in the US as well.
John
They might learn how to make a decent dishwasher that can be serviced and isn’t such a flimsy piece of junk I can’t believe how many of those plastic bottomed dishwasher Bosch sells and none of their dishwashers except the ultra premium ones do a half Way decent job of drying dishes.
But I don’t think they should be allowed to buy because whirlpool and Bosch are currently the two biggest dishwasher makers, GE and Electrolux are still very much in the mix in the US as well.
John
fan-of-fans
Well-known member
“New home starts down”
I have to say I wonder if appliance sales are down due to not as many people buying them and needing appliances. With all time high home prices and high rates, I don’t understand how anybody not selling an existing home can afford one.
And I imagine new starts are down for the same reasons. Material cost up, labor costs up, high rates and well… very few people can then afford a new construction.
I have to say I wonder if appliance sales are down due to not as many people buying them and needing appliances. With all time high home prices and high rates, I don’t understand how anybody not selling an existing home can afford one.
And I imagine new starts are down for the same reasons. Material cost up, labor costs up, high rates and well… very few people can then afford a new construction.
Having worked at BSH it's mostly a pandemic after shock thing.
Our production of built in fridges grew about 20% during the pandemic, then plummeted to pre pandemic levels.
With business people wanting a few percent growth every year, dropping back to production levels from 4 years ago just isn't good - especially if they saw such a growth.
Basically all the production over run is now resulting in less buying.
Our production of built in fridges grew about 20% during the pandemic, then plummeted to pre pandemic levels.
With business people wanting a few percent growth every year, dropping back to production levels from 4 years ago just isn't good - especially if they saw such a growth.
Basically all the production over run is now resulting in less buying.
Quite honestly once the post war housing boom was over or petering out (by 1970's IIRC), many appliance manufacturers turned to other ways of propping up sales. Others just exited white goods market all together no longer wanting to bother.
Renovation of existing either before sale or by new owners, persons needing new appliances after moving house, etc.. are largest drivers of major appliance sales nowadays. What else is there besides replacement of damaged or defective units that cannot or owner does not wish to repair?
Right now there are several moving pieces to low new home starts. One primary reason is due to effects of cheap mortgages of past.
Those with mortgages with interest rates of say near nil to 3% are not interested in selling unless absolutely necessary. Why would they? Any new mortgage at current rates is bound to be twice or more than current rate which along with high prices acts as a serious deterrent. People just aren't moving house in numbers enough to free up large amounts of homes.
On other side of things home builders aren't nor have been producing nearly enough new homes to keep up with demand. This has several reasons including so many fingers getting burned during credit/mortgage crisis that lead up to 2008 recession.
Things aren't much better in other parts of world either. Nearly all developed industrial nations are facing issues with housing. In particular homes people buy, not rent.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...hortfall-in-supply-labors-expert-council-says
Renovation of existing either before sale or by new owners, persons needing new appliances after moving house, etc.. are largest drivers of major appliance sales nowadays. What else is there besides replacement of damaged or defective units that cannot or owner does not wish to repair?
Right now there are several moving pieces to low new home starts. One primary reason is due to effects of cheap mortgages of past.
Those with mortgages with interest rates of say near nil to 3% are not interested in selling unless absolutely necessary. Why would they? Any new mortgage at current rates is bound to be twice or more than current rate which along with high prices acts as a serious deterrent. People just aren't moving house in numbers enough to free up large amounts of homes.
On other side of things home builders aren't nor have been producing nearly enough new homes to keep up with demand. This has several reasons including so many fingers getting burned during credit/mortgage crisis that lead up to 2008 recession.
Things aren't much better in other parts of world either. Nearly all developed industrial nations are facing issues with housing. In particular homes people buy, not rent.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...hortfall-in-supply-labors-expert-council-says
Appliance sales slowing slightly
Because of greater reliability, smaller families and more multiple homes appliances are not selling as fast as they once did, but they’re still selling well.
Major storms drive a lot of appliance sales
This is a great time to build a new home. Construction materials are way down in price because construction is generally down. There’s also a lot more people that are hungry to build a house. If someone’s been waiting to build a new house this is the best time to do it.
Houses are actually more affordable than ever, but you do have to save and you need to partner up with somebody else if you really wanna buy a house.
John
Because of greater reliability, smaller families and more multiple homes appliances are not selling as fast as they once did, but they’re still selling well.
Major storms drive a lot of appliance sales
This is a great time to build a new home. Construction materials are way down in price because construction is generally down. There’s also a lot more people that are hungry to build a house. If someone’s been waiting to build a new house this is the best time to do it.
Houses are actually more affordable than ever, but you do have to save and you need to partner up with somebody else if you really wanna buy a house.
John
Houses are actually more affordable than ever,
More affordable than ever? Not sure where you get that from. And interest is more than doubled from just a couple years ago...
https://cdn-0.inflationdata.com/art...ds/2023/12/Inflation-Adjusted-Home-Prices.png
Won't even comment on appliance reliability.
More affordable than ever? Not sure where you get that from. And interest is more than doubled from just a couple years ago...
https://cdn-0.inflationdata.com/art...ds/2023/12/Inflation-Adjusted-Home-Prices.png
Won't even comment on appliance reliability.
henene4, here in the US Bosch has a minor market share in every category *except* dishwashers. In dishwashers, they have a big market share.
My point is that the merger could be shot down over dishwashers alone, because the GE-Electrolux was shut down over cooking alone. And if anything the US government is more hostile to mergers now than it was then.
That said, if there's a change in presidential administration, maybe it would get approved, who knows. I expect if it did go through Bosch would keep most of Whirlpool's US manufacturing facilities, except for dishwashers, which they'd partially or completely replace with their own (slapping Whirlpool brand logos onto Bosch DWs).
My point is that the merger could be shot down over dishwashers alone, because the GE-Electrolux was shut down over cooking alone. And if anything the US government is more hostile to mergers now than it was then.
That said, if there's a change in presidential administration, maybe it would get approved, who knows. I expect if it did go through Bosch would keep most of Whirlpool's US manufacturing facilities, except for dishwashers, which they'd partially or completely replace with their own (slapping Whirlpool brand logos onto Bosch DWs).
"I expect if it did go through Bosch would keep most of Whirlpool's US manufacturing facilities"
That rarely happens these days. A good portion is sold off for big money (particularly real-estate) and either merged with another facility or sent overseas.
After Whirlpool bought Kitchenaid, it closed down all of their facility a couple of years later in 1988. When they acquired Maytag, they sold off Hoover and TTI. In 2007, they closed plants in Newton, Iowa, Searcy, Arkansas, and Herrin, Illinois, resulting in the loss of 4,500 jobs. The following year, they closed down plants in La Vergne, Tennessee, Reynosa, Mexico, Oxford, Mississippi, and Jackson, Tennessee.
That rarely happens these days. A good portion is sold off for big money (particularly real-estate) and either merged with another facility or sent overseas.
After Whirlpool bought Kitchenaid, it closed down all of their facility a couple of years later in 1988. When they acquired Maytag, they sold off Hoover and TTI. In 2007, they closed plants in Newton, Iowa, Searcy, Arkansas, and Herrin, Illinois, resulting in the loss of 4,500 jobs. The following year, they closed down plants in La Vergne, Tennessee, Reynosa, Mexico, Oxford, Mississippi, and Jackson, Tennessee.
#37
Yeah I suspect that if BSH buys WP, expect at least at 50% reduction in force. They will combine WP ops with their existing North Carolina ops as well as EU.
Close down most WP factories, also.
The crappy thing is, because publicly traded WP’s market cap has tanked so much, the shareholders and board might demand huge cuts anyway. Never mind that WP has been on a building spree. That coiuld all halt o a dime and be sold off.
I read an article the other day where the WP CEO was promising the Benton Harbor mayor “we’ve been here 110 years and not going anywhere.”
I literally snorted out loud at that Pinocchio lie.
The people don’t matter. The appliances don’t matter.
None of it matters if the shareholders don’t get what they want.
Yeah I suspect that if BSH buys WP, expect at least at 50% reduction in force. They will combine WP ops with their existing North Carolina ops as well as EU.
Close down most WP factories, also.
The crappy thing is, because publicly traded WP’s market cap has tanked so much, the shareholders and board might demand huge cuts anyway. Never mind that WP has been on a building spree. That coiuld all halt o a dime and be sold off.
I read an article the other day where the WP CEO was promising the Benton Harbor mayor “we’ve been here 110 years and not going anywhere.”
I literally snorted out loud at that Pinocchio lie.
The people don’t matter. The appliances don’t matter.
None of it matters if the shareholders don’t get what they want.
