Burning Question in WSJ Right Temp for Laundry

[tomturbomatic]

If any were wondering what in the hell has happened to Consumer Reports, go to this link to read an article in Tuesday's Wall Street Journal. Two of CU's lead testers Pat Slavin and Emilio Gonzalez offer astounding answers to the WSJ's Heidi Mitchell who does not seem to know shit from apple butter when it comes to laundry practices since she swallows their answers hook, line and stinker.

Especially stupid is Ms. Slavin's pronouncement that most cold-water taps in America supply water at 60-75 degrees, without qualifying that by time of year. She says that at home, she mostly uses cold water, since hot or even warm water can strip colors.

Unfortunately, the online version does not feature the cute picture from Getty Images of the little boy with his face in the window of a frontloader.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-the-right-temperature-to-do-laundry-1443453709

 

[jetcone]

Ms Slavin

is also slipping a fast one! One enzyme works at 65 degrees and not at higher temperatures, most enzymes work well at 90-120 degrees , hot water settles out between 90-100 after all the metal and clothes get heated up.

And she says nothing about alkalinity, most enzymes are very sensitive to alkalinity. Hello???

 

And how much oil and grease are lifted and suspended in cold water? I don't care how effective her enzyme is, it would have to eat the grease to get it out of the clothes and down the drain. And most 85-90% of soil on laundry is body grease and oils.

 

 

 

[toploader55]

Funny this should surface...

For comfort reasons due to a skin condition on my legs, I've been wearing Scrubs to work (In the kitchen at the restaurant).

They are different shades of Blue and Grey. After getting butter and other assorted oils splashed on them, I took a chance and washed them in Hot water as opposed to Warm or as the Miele has a setting for "Very Warm". The Warm and VW temps couldn't pull the grease/oil out of the fabric. Hot Water not only pulled out the stains but did NOT effect the color or produce fading.

So my fear of washing something colored in hot water has been pretty much eliminated. Certain stains I will start with a prewash with warm water to loosen the stain and then blast it with hot. I think the gradual temperature rise works on the fibers. And as Jon mentioned you have to take in the consideration of heating up all the parts of the machine as well.

This is true with Dishwashers as well. Most people do not run the water at the tap to clear the hot water line of the cold water. So if you use a Energy Saving or Short Wash cycle, you essentially fill the machine with tepid water at best and if the machine does not have a heating delay, well, the results will not be good on a heavily soiled wash.

And as always... Your mileage may vary and this is solely one's own opinion.

 

[arbilab]

Geez, back when I had a dishwasher I ran the tap every time it filled. Waste? Not really, considering perfect results at 120F vs. the cost of maintaining 140F all the time. But like you say, that's just me.

And like we all pretty much say, CU has long-since lost its sense of scientific objectivity to which we USED to subscribe but no longer do cuz it just ain't there no more.

 

[washer111]

Hot/Warm Causes Fading?

I'm sorry, but in my case it has ELIMINATED colours running and fading. 

 

Have a white shirt, with some minor red/blue striping bought at a surf-shop (a rare thing for me...). Washing or soaking in cold would allow these to run. 

 

Nearly a year later, the Miele washer came on the scene and this sort of thing has since ceased. The only cause for fading has been excessive line-drying time, and a couple of quick LCB runs over time to clear up annoying stains that otherwise weren't shifting. 

 

My other shirts, the majority being darker ones, have only faded due to exposure to UV light and sweat. Some shirts have proven more resistant that others. However, I think if one is finding their clothes fading you need to either review your detergent, drying practices or what you wear in the sun (if not ALL the above). 

 

OBTW - When I have used cooler cycles than 104ºF (40ºC) on the Miele, have noticed that my shirts are not adequately deodorised, even with a good quality detergent of liquid OR powder origin, even between different brands (product). Yes, I do sweat a ton - a cool winter's day can reduce me to a moist, smelly heap depending on circumstance. 

Maybe cold can shift stains, but Consumer Reports and all the other Laundry-Luddite publications don't test odors, as they are subjective. I can put up with odors, and don't have a sensitive nose, but I know what I am smelling, LOL. 

 

[mrboilwash]

“Detergents are formulated with enzymes that kick into action even at 60 degrees Fahrenheit”

OK, I agree that if someone is happy with the cleaning results of cold water as soon as stains are no longer VISIBLE, go ahead and wash in cold.
What they totally ignore in the article is the fact that the bulk of soil in clothes is usually sebum and dead skin cells and not the occasional grass or food stain that CU seems so obsessed with. You still need loads of surfactants and or high temperatures to suspend and get rid of those nasty pigment soils.

"Above 75 degrees, the detergent’s enzymes become less effective, she says. And the added heat can help set stains like blood as well as damage some fabrics and colors."

In the 1970s we had lots of (mostly Italian) washers in Europe which offered a BIO Prewash at 60°C (140°F) to get the best out of enzyme containing products like Ariel and Persil. Being cold fill machines there was no risk of setting blood stains unlike in US machines but I still wonder what has changed since then.
I understand back then there was only protease and maybe amylase as enzymes. Are these the least sensitive to heat or were European washing maschine manufacturers just plain stupid and did not know what they were doing ?

“At home, I mostly use cold water, since hot or even warm water can strip colors,”

Yes, but remember there`s colors and there`s colors.
Of course if the dye is of very low quality and bleeds in the wash it is good advice to keep the temp as low as possible. But I wouldn`t generalize on this one either. Most items are dyed with colorfast reactive dyes anyway and can take high temps very well without EXCESSIVE fading. Haven`t ever seen a care tag that suggest less than 60°C for things like sheets and towels in Europe even for black or darkest blue colors. One of my dishcloths is deep red colored and allows for 95°C on the care tag. It`s worn from hundreds of boil washings but the color is still acceptable.

I don`t want to put down anyone`s washing habits but I think this CU article is just propaganda driven by the departement of energy.

 

[launderess]

Pre-wash on my older Miele (W1070)

Starts with cold water and gradually reaches "warm" by the cycle's end.

Main enzyme in detergents/pre-soaks and bleaches was protease back in the day. Not sure when amylase came along.

IIRC through the 1970's or 1980's (maybe even 1990's) pre-wash cycles were part of almost all European washing machines when "Normal" cottons/linens and or even "Easy Cares" was selected. You also had the option for a "short" cycle which skipped the pre-wash and usually a part of the heating cycle. Oddly the owner's manual for my Miele states if using liquid detergents one could skip the pre-wash and just use the main cycle.

My vintage boxes of Biz, Tide, Fresh Start and other detergents only have proteinase. Also remember well the adverts for Era liquid detergent as revolutionary because "protein gets out protein". This was a reference to the types of stains affected by proteinase.

Whomever wrote that WSJ piece and or those at Consumer Reports should be lined up and shot. It is full of so much misinformation don't know where to start.

Modern enzyme cocktails in most laundry products have a working range from cold water all the way to 120F or even 140F. Detergents made for washing in cold water have further tweaked enzyme cocktails that will work at temps low as 75F or even below if given enough time.

Much of the information comes from those people viewing laundry through American machine eyes.

Historically American top loaders do not heat water. So to avoid setting stains and or starting with a hot wash (whose temperature would vary by the water heater settings), things either had to be pre-soaked or pre-washed in warm or cool water.

Cannot believe those idiots got away with saying oxygen bleach does not sanitize. Oh well guess for all those years the use of hydrogen peroxide to kill germs and or reduce their number was all for naught.

 

[davey7]

Not sure this is relevant but one of my neighbors boils water to put in her washing machine because our building water supply isn't "hot enough".... (she also peels her grapes)

 

[mamapinky]

Davey, I didn't know we were neighbors, lol. I don't peel grapes but I do boil a soup pot of water to add to my whites in my Speed Queen TL. I like hot water for my whites lol..with no heater a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do lol.

 

[launderess]

Oh, Beulah, peel me a grape!

 

[warmsecondrinse]

I can't take it seriously. I want to watch people actually remove oil with 65F water. It's sort of funny because anyone who thinks cold water gets rid of sweat, sebum, etc, has never actually tried to do so with cold water.

And what is this about people washing basically clean clothes? MY clothes certainly are not clean after having been worn 16 hours... or longer. Anyone who thinks differently is welcome to come take a whiff.

 

[washer111]

The point you make Jim sounds somewhat familiar to what is oft said in the "Brown" forums (I'll let you do the guessing on what I am specifically referring to). 

 

Agree completely about the sweat and odours after 16hrs. Yeah, if I wear an undershirt just for a couple of hours things can start getting "formidable" in this climate... One needs HOT (or warm at least) to shift that, and the stains that can develop with, given the right climate. 

 

You know, I wonder how they wash the Priest's vestments in hot climates like ours. One sees plenty of them absolutely drenched with sweat, mopping their brows constantly - particularly in our Nuclear summers (A/C, no matter how much, don't do more than "temper" the heat in an uninsulated tin shed). 

 

[launderess]

Leave us bring this on home...

Energy "conservation" per se is not about this or that household savings; but the larger issue of countries having to cope with ever larger demands.

Over the last century more and more mod cons require electricity and worse more and more households/persons are purchasing. That is putting a strain on many countries power grids and generation plants. All this while debates rage about various forms of power generation, in particular that derived from nuclear and the burning of fossil fuels such as coal.

Meanwhile back at the ranch many former Third World countries such as India, China, etc... are seeing a rapid growth of upper and middle classes and or increased standards of living. This is going to mean yet more households/persons coming out of the "dark ages" so to speak. Finally adding to this whole mix is the never ending topic of global warming and what is to be done if anything.

Sooo the obvious choice by some is to get persons to use *less* energy. If persons stop washing in hot water for instance their particular savings may be nil to none. However the overall reduction for a nation would be great... So there you are then.

 

[washer111]

To Add to Launderess Above

(Without starting some sort of conflict)

 

... If big factories and corporations used less energy, then the savings would perhaps be even greater! 

 

[launderess]

Totally blows away everythng that Slavin woman says

Pipe:

http://www.maytagcommerciallaundry.com/content.jsp?pageName=Maintenance-Washers-Advice3

 

[warmsecondrinse]

I applaud the growth of the middle class world-wide. for the record, I don't think anyone, in ANY country, with his/her new washer should have to listen to anyone trying to tell them that their new washer will re-write laws of physics and convince oils to dissolve at lower temps.

I agree energy should be conserved. However, these newly formulated enzymes are not produced without consumption of resources. How, exactly, are those resources figured into the supposed savings of money and resources by the end user using colder water? As far as I've seen, they're not. The depletion of resources does not alter simply because it's not figured into the accounting. Don't forget, if there weren't profits to be made by the production of these enzymes, they'd not be produced.

More broadly, the present status of ... well, pretty much everything ... shows that conservation of energy and resources rates nothing more than lip service.

Fewer people will drive to their destinations once the alternatives are some combination of faster, cheaper, and more convenient.

People will purchase more LED and/or CFL bulbs when they're cheaper than incandescents.

More people will purchase fuel efficient cars when they're cheaper to buy and maintain than larger, less efficient vehicles.

The list is endless.

Jim

 

[tomturbomatic]

On the other hand, HE washers were produced to use less total water and less hot water than traditional top loaders. After you have gone to all of the trouble to invent, manufacture and market very efficient washing machines, why do you encourage people to stop using hot water for washing when the small amount of water with which the washer fills loses so much heat to the inner and outer tubs that unless you have the machine next to the water heater (which is now set to only 120F in many cases) or bother to purge the hot water line of the cold water sitting in it, you are not going to get more than a warm water wash anyway. Then you have complaints of laundry and washers smelling like sewers because of poor laundering. I am willing to pay to be clean. If the readers of the WSJ are stupid enough to believe this BS, then let them follow these practices and sicken and perhaps die like in the dark ages when the Church ruled the Western world and declared the body so vile that it should only be undressed for bathing once or twice in a lifetime. Jews of course, continued bathing, did not get sick and were then killed for causing Christians to become ill.

A friend called a couple of months back wanting advice on a new dishwasher. After some conversation, it turns out that he had an adequate brand, but was using one of those tree-hugger brands of detergent and did not know to purge the hot line of cold water before starting the thing. Like me, he lives alone and only runs the thing once or twice a week. I told him that while I was not an advocate of rinsing stuff before putting it in the dishwasher, if it is going to sit for a week and you don't do a rinse and hold and only have 120F water like he does, rinsing really gross things before stacking them in there to sit for several days would be helpful. I gave him a couple of cups of industrial Cascade to see if it was machine failure or more of a detergent related problem. By the time he finished with the Cascade, the film was gone on glasses and the dishes were coming out clean. Modern conveniences are nice, but if you are not going to invest some money in heating water and using a quality detergent, you are not going to get optimum performance out of them.

 

[askolover]

fading....hah

I've been washing my colored clothing in warm water for years and the only thing that I see fading are my denim jeans...but nothing will stop that.  I was my colored scrub uniforms in very warm (or hot if I had an isolation patient) and same thing...and I keep scrubs for YEARS!

 

[gansky1]

Thanks for the link to the Maytag Commercial article, L. That should be the opening page to all WP domestic and commercial web pages. A little education would go a long way, though it would probably be more effective in video form with some throbbing dance beat behind it. My son's middle school curriculum included a mandatory semester of Home Skills. One semester. Only the very basics were touched on in such a short time, and having seen the Home Skills "LAB" with it's 12 foot "kitchen" and the compact WP Barbie washer/dryer, I'm sure the kids got little more than rudimentary survival skills.

I rarely use cold water for any washing, we don't have a lot of "delicate" items and if a cooler wash is desired I use warm setting on the Speed Queen front-loader. By the time the machine fills and the stainless inner and outer drums temper that incoming water, we end up with a cool wash temp anyway.