But once the final figures are in on the Toyota vehicle recalls . . .

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joeekaitis

joeekaitis

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. . . it's a safe bet the number of fatalities directly attributable to mechanical, electronic or electrical failure will be minuscule compared to the number of fatalities caused by sober drivers driving mechanically sound vehicles under ideal road and weather conditions.

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting, that's us killing each other, so it's nothing to get upset about.
 
Friend involved in Toyota accident

My buddy Jay works at a Toyota dealership, in the service department. One of his duties there is to take the cars in and out of the service bays.

Several months ago he was in the process of taking a newer Corolla - that was supposedly finished being serviced - out to the waiting customer. He said he got in the car, started it, and put it in reverse. He claims he barely stepped on the gas, and it took off at a high rate of speed. The vehicle backed clear across the service department, first striking a mechanics rolling toolbox, them hitting a lift with a Camry upon it. One side of the Camry fell off the lift onto the Corolla he was driving, and the arm of the lift went through the back windshield of the car. It protruded far enough in that it knocked off the ball cap he was wearing. He says he had his head turned while backing up, and the lift just missed his head by an inch or so, hitting the bill of the cap instead.

Obviously he was very shaken by all this, and complained of his back hurting, so went to the ER and had to get muscle relaxers. Otherwise he was OK. He is always very carefull with the cars, and said this happened very fast. His co-workers said the car had to be going at least 20 mph or more in the short distance from where he started to where he stopped.

The Camry had to have quite a bit of work to repair it, and the Corolla was so badly damaged it was totalled. Luckily they didn't blame him for it, and the dealerships insurance covered everything.
 
All in all none of it would deter me from buying a new Toyota if I was in the market. All the makers have their recalls only this one stands out more because of the brand and yes the scope.

Remember when Audi just about went down the toilet when some of their cars came out of park or something unexpectedly back in the when, 70's or 80's. It's taken them years to recover if they ever really did.
 
The Audi problem I recall was "unintended acceleration." I remember it being talked about in the 1980s. Although, I heard some speculation that part of the problem might be driver error or an excuse to give the insurance company.

I seem to recall that Ford from 1960-something to 1980-something had a problem with some transmissions slipping out of Park. Although, to be fair, I'm not sure I'd trust any automatic not to potentially slip. The last time I owned an automatic, I always shut the engine off when getting out of the car to open the garage. People thought I was crazy, but I always felt it's better to be safe than sorry.
 
Yeah, well, let's keep putting computer chips and controls where mechaincial thing did fine for decades.

I still say all major appliances (especially those that have 'computerized controls') should have a hard-power-down switches that cut off both electrical poles ('wires') from the circuit.

Too much of a chance an oven or dryer will fire-up on its own.
 
Now a lot of cars require you to step on the brake before shifting gears. This was one result of the Audi mess.
From what I have seen from people we know who have owned them, Audi vehicles are rather problem prone. Engine Cooling problems, transmission problems, fuel injection problems. There is always something requiring a trip to the repair shop.
 
Unfortunately electronically controlled vehicles are here to stay, and the electronics will only increase in their share of the chores.

One reason is emissions and fuel economy. Computers just do a better job of these things than mechanical systems.

Another is cost - it's ultimately cheaper to make an electronically controlled part than one that has to rely on precisely manufactured mechanical components.

But the new technology isn't without its dangers, as the recent recalls show. And as the previous message shows, it's dangerous for the auto mechanics as well.

For example, the Prius and related hybrids (GM licenses the Prius system), have gas motors that can start up at any time. All that is needed is for the remote key fob to be within 12 feet of the car. I kid you not. Part of the procedure for servicing these cars is to first make sure the key fob is more than 12 feet away from the vehicle.

That and the 300 volt electrical wiring that snakes through the cars. A whole new generation of auto mechanics needs to be trained to service and repair these fuel efficient vehicles.
 
The more complex automotive systems--esp hybrids REQUIRE the computer based systems to work-Mechanical just can't do it there.
The HV hybrid battery systems pose a hazard to rescue workers too-they have to be trained on how to open these vehicles without getting electrocuted and same with the occupants in a wrecked hybrid car.To sum it up as a hybrid owener-I hav e owned two hybrid cars-A Toyota Highlander Hybrid-Now a Lexus RX400H Hybrid-the Lexus system is the same as the Highlander.In the Hybrid cars-if you pop the hood-orange wiring is HIGH VOLTAGE!Not only is the 300V traction battery voltages-but the two way invertor that converets the battery voltage to 650V AC to drive the electric motor-and when the motor is being Messages still being cut off!
 
No problems with our Prius yet. It's being a good car and next time I have it serviced I will see if it needs the recall work done on it.

If the Prius fails, then she'll find herself in a VW TDI.
 
First Responders...

I do hope first responders (firemen, cops, EMTs) are being trained on where the high voltage lines are in these hybrid cars - I'd hate for folks doing a difficult job trying to save lives to be killed accidentally.

I am squeamish about driving round with lots of lead acid batteries myself...

Hunter (who in addition to a full size pickup truck made by Ford has a YARIS by Toyota - completely basic, 13,000 dollar car that gets 40+ mpg. Quite the deal!)
 
Through all of this mess, there is one thing about the recall-related TV ads that one would think Toyota would want to eliminate.

That would be the catchphrase "Moving Forward"

As for Audi, that's exactly why we bought a 5000 Wagon back in 1987. They were cheap due to the accelleration issue. We've owned Audis ever since. The problem with the 5000's never was an issue with the pedal. Once I was waiting in the passenger's seat while Dave picked up some dry cleaning. He left the motor running, and while I was sitting there it revved up incredibly high for several seconds all on its own. The only time it happened, but it did. We eventually had other issues that seemed ignition related. After poring over the shop manual I declared the "Halls sending unit" as the culprit. We had the mechanic replace it and the problem went away.
 
Remember the earlier Prius recall? The one where the cars would slam themselves into Park at speed, and you couldn't shut them off? That happened to our roommate. I'd rather have direct mechanical links with my car, and take my chances on my driving abilities.
 
The traction batteries in Toyota Hybrid cars are Nickel Metal Hydride-Less toxic than lead acid and more efficient,longer lasting.They should last the life of the car.The ignition battery in a hybrid is lead acid-same as other cars.Nickel metal hydrid batteries have potassium hydroxide as an electrolyte-it is harmful to skin same as the sulfuric acid found in lead acid batteries.The traction batteries are sealed-they could get ruptured in an accident.
 
do hope first responders (firemen, cops, EMTs) are being tra

That very thing happened here about 8 weeks ago. One of our Careflight drivers was shocked and burned badly when trying to get a guy out of a Toyota that had turned over. Now if it is a electric or dual power car Fire Dept has to get them out. Not our guys. So that makes response time much longer.
 
The braking problem is with the 2010 Prius - the "third generation". The 2nd generation seems to be relatively trouble-free.

On the Prius, the high voltage cables run from the battery pack in the back to the front of the car through the roof rails. This is very important for first responders to know, for if they were to try to cut through the roof to free someone, they could get a nasty surprise. There is also a bright orange cut-off switch in the "trunk" in the back of the car - but you pretty much have to know it's there.

The new GM Volt will use lithium ion batteries. Lighter with more power density than NiMH, but a bit trickier to manufacture. Explosive if not made or handled properly (remember the self-destructing laptop computer batteries a few years ago?). Both types of batteries are heat sensitive, with the lithium ion losing a fair amount of their charging potential in storage. At least that's true of cell phone batteries; maybe GM and others have figured out how to prolong the shelf life of lithium ion rechargeable batteries.
 
CAR CHOICES

I will not buy a car from any company that doesn't give workers domestic partner benefits. So toyota and a lot of other companies are not even on my list its just too much money to spend with a company that doesn't respect you. My brother and have bought over 25 chrysler cars and trucks since 1982 {still have more than 10] and have never been disappointed with a single one all went over 100,000 miles some over 200,000.
 
I have a 2009 Prius! Such a wonderful car!!!! I still believe the Toyota Cars are far more superior and higher quality then any GM, Ford and Chrysler cars being built today. The last three cars I had were Toyota...never any problems!! 2004 Echo, 2006 Matrix and now 2009 Prius

Funny, my dad was a GM dealer and every vehicle I had then was a GM.....always breaking down, problems, problems - oh yeah recalls!
 
I agree,Bob

My 2008 Toyota Prius is my 4th Toyota I have owned. I have never had any of my Toyota's break down. Always just routine maintenance on them. I always maintain all my cars very well. I have also had my share of GM,Ford,Chrysler products. ALL of them had to be towed for mechanical breakdown. Waiting on the side of the road for a tow truck is just no fun. Costing me high repair bills and lots of MY time. Having to take them back because the first repair was not done right. I have never had any of that CR*P with Toyota's.

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