Cascade Powder w/phosphates VS Cascade non-phosphate w/stpp added

[launderess]

Commcercial Dishwasher Detergents

Am almost certain NYS has banned phosphates from commercial products just as with domestic automatic dishwasher detergents. The only difference was that the former was given a bit longer time to comply with the law.

New York State also had allowed commercial laundry products to contain phosphates long after banning them for domestic use, but that ended awile ago as well. Ecolab and others who sold and or still sell laundry products to the trade that contain phosphates will note "not for sale in NY..........".

 

[tomturbomatic]

I sniffed last night while the convertible portable was draining and cannot really smell the chlorine in the commercial/food service formula Cascade like I can from the bleach in the gel formula Cascade. Maybe it's not as high a percentage of chlorine as in the gel formula.

 

[mark_wpduet]

Turbo

I thought chlorine was taken out of all cascade because they all have enzymes now and those two don't work together..........Does the GEL cascade formula still have chlorine bleach or are using and old formula gel? I haven't used gel in forever so I have no clue

 

[joeinfl]

I've been using this for about 3 months now and it's so much better than the Cascade and Finish (new formulas) that I was using before. I've given away 3 boxes to people and they are all raving about it too.

 

[whirlykenmore78]

Institutional Finish

I'm going to be giving Institutional Finish a try. It is still made by Ecolab and is the old formulation. If it is anything like other Ecolab DW detergents it will work extremely well.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Gel Cascade

Mark, The Gel formula was the only Cascade to still contain bleach. I bought the container a few months ago. It is Cascade Pure Essentials in a white bottle with a green top and warns that it contains chlorine bleach; I guess because it is liquid.

Many years ago, we went to a Maytag sales meeting when they were introducing stainless steel dishwasher tanks. KA had already done so. This was way before the tall tubs. They told us that there was a move to eliminate chlorine bleach from detergents and without the chlorine bleach, the plastic tanks soon stain like hell. To avoid having nice dishwashers look awful inside, Maytag planned to upgrade the upper end models to stainless steel tanks and they made a big song and dance about it, but chlorine bleach was not completely eliminated from dishwasher detergents. Many eventually moved to enzymes instead of bleach and the detergent manufacturers could then sell a bleach treatment for the dishwashers.

Our first Mobile Maid had a couple of pages devoted to situations that might arise while using the dishwasher. One of them was staining of the Plastisol tub interior. The solution was to place a measuring cup of bleach in the center of the grid over the impeller and run a complete cycle with absolutely no metal in the machine. By placing the measuring cup in the center over the impeller, the water force did not tip over the cup and the bleach was gradually introduced into each fill as the cup overflowed from the water that fell into it. Of course, people could not be instructed to do that today because: #1, they don't read the manuals, #2, there would probably be a liability issue & #3, the detergent manufacturers would not have a market for their dishwasher cleaning crap.

 

[macboy91si]

Mark

You know they sell the institutional stuff at GFS over in Hamburg right? It's reasonably priced and they seem to always have it in stock. I picked up a couple of boxes the other day and stopped by the new ADI over there to check out some SQ machines.

-Tim

 

[whirlcool]

I went back to the dollar store where I found the Great Value phosphated DW detergent. When I went in there before they had 10 pallets full. I bought 6 boxes and said I'd come back for more later. That was a couple of months ago.

They are completely out now. The woman behind the counter said that several weeks ago a woman came in and bought two pallets of the stuff by herself! They had to help her load it in her mini-van.

I wonder if she was a reader of this website?

We have visited several dollar stores in our area and haven't found any that still have the phosphate loaded stuff. Ournext trip is out into the country to some more obscure dollar store to see if there is anymore left.

We still have about a years supply left,

 

[DADoES]

 
Cascade package arrived ... but not yet the Fresh Start.

 

[gansky1]

I ordered a case of the commercial Cascade as well, it should be here in a few days. I've been using some of the phosphate-formula powdered Cascade with oxi-bleach and love that. I found it at Big Lots after the changeover and stocked up. I think it has about 6-7% phosphate. I give stpp to a few friends and family, mixed in an airtight container with powdered detergent at about 8% concentration and they seem to have very good luck with it.

I bought a bunch of that Hytron and hated it. It foamed in the machine and the cleaning ability was far worse than expected. It is not a phosphated detergent, it contains less than 0.5% which is considered "trace" amounts in manufacturing. I tried adding stpp to it, but that seemed to make the foaming problem worse and now I only use it for adding to some laundry (rags) and found it does do a nice job on spots on the driveway though I will rarely do this as I don't want it ending up in the nearby creek that our storm sewer system empties into. I still have a gallon-size jug of it that I'll probably take to the city chemical recycling center.

 

[nurdlinger]

So I am confused about Institutional Cascade

The 54.XX box stuff. Does it contain chlorine bleach or not? Claims are made both ways earlier in the thread. I have some KA tall tub dishwasher with a stainless steel interior. I don't want to use bleach in it, and I don't want to spend the $$ for the Institutional Cascade if it indeed contains bleach.

 

[tomturbomatic]

A properly formulated detergent containing chlorine will not hurt the tank any more than it would hurt your stainless flatware or pans. On what are you basing this fear?

 

[appnut]

Commercial dishwashers do indeed have stainless stel interiors, so I wouldn't worry!!! 

 

[mark_wpduet]

It DOES have chlorine bleach! I can smell it and tell how it bleaches the inside of the dishwasher.

The non-phosphate cascade powder with "extra bleach" doesn't have real chlorine bleach.

I'm glad you told me about your experience with Hytron. I had never heard of it until a few days ago and had it bookmarked for future just in case.

Dumb question: Does GFS stand for Gordon Food Service?

 

[maytagbear]

Yes,

"GFS" stands for Gordon Food Service. That is how I know it, and how my friends refer to it. I am going on Thursday for more Institutional Cascade.

As for the Hytron, it again points up how important variations in water can be! It might be a competent to excellent performer in hard, hard water.

My water is just on the edge of hard. European dishwasher detergents, which still have (for a while) lots of phosphate, tend to suds in my water. They still clean quite well, but I have to manually add a rinse.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[nurdlinger]

OK thanks

I never thought about bleach in the stainless steel lined dishwasher before reading this thread. Some posts in here made me anxious over it. If it's really not a cause for worry, I am glad to hear it.

 

[macboy91si]

GFS

Yeah, Gordon Food Service, there is one over behind Chik-Fil-A on Plaudit Pl. over near the Liquor Barn in Hamburg, if you've never been there, give it a whirl, it's a neat place.

 

-Tim

 

[maytagbear]

I get a lot of baking supplies at GFS

They have excellent prices on things like bread yeast in the 1 pound package. Amazingly enough, a pound of yeast lasts a nice time in the freezer, but I go through about a pound of yeast a year.

They also have a selection of decent cookware at or slightly below Wally World prices.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[Jsneaker]

Polkanut & Mark_wpduet's comments & some advice

The Hytron detergent's phosphate content is misleading. A phosphate content of .05% is the "residual" amount that might remain in non-phosphate versions of any detergent, dishwashing or laundry. I find the jar of the Hytron is misleading and deceptive. it says in the ingredients that is contains phosphate, with the asterisk, denoting "less than...". If one wants the benefit of chlorine detergent, do what I sometimes do: add 1/4 cup of liquid chlorine bleach to the very first pre wash(after any purge or drain-I start my machine on pre wash with no 2-minute-plus drain cycle) on your dishwasher, when the water isn't very hot yet. You will then get the benefit of both chlorine and enzymes. My dishwasher is a POS bottom-line "Tragic Chef" with just one 20-minute rinse. I let the first rinse go for about two minutes, then switch the machine to "rinse & hold". This way I get thoroughly-rinsed items. I also still have 1975 chlorine and 12.6% phosphate all dishwasher powder, that works fine, but only leaves some powder residue on the dishes as it's so old. We have very soft water on LI, and my hot water can get to 140 or more easily-it STEAMS a lot at 9-10 at night when I do my dishes.

 

[whirlcool]

After awhile I've noticed that the dishwasher tends to retain the odor of the DW detergent that you are using. So if you add 1/4 cup bleach just before starting up the machine, when it finishes not only will you have nice white coffee cups, but the dishwasher doesn't have any odor at all.

We do this about twice a month.